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	<title>Comments on: Longing for Mike Ciresi?</title>
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		<title>By: Ardi</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-20003</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 02:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-20003</guid>
		<description>I agree with Gardog.  JNP was a decent person but there is no way he would have done better in the general than Franken.  Had JNP beaten Franken in the endorsement, Coleman would have been called the winner shortly after the polls closed.

Ciresi was the best choice, but failed because he has common sense and an incredible record.  The two criticisms I remember most from my SD convention were a) he&#039;s a weathly lawyer and b) he&#039;s too conservative.  While he is wealthy (based on his personal finance disclosure), it is because of his commitment to fighting for the common good that put him there.  He made history with his case against the tobacco industry and our state benefits every year from his courage and capabilities.  It down right infuriating when I&#039;d hear someone talk about how great Obama was and then turn around and disparage Ciresi for being a lawyer (Obama is a lawyer, too).  

He certainly isn&#039;t conservative, either.  I saw Mr. Ciresi speak at a GLBT rally, one of the candidate debates, and at the state fair in 2007 and I can&#039;t believe people didn&#039;t see what I saw.  A smart, pragmatic leader who would not just be a Democrat in the Senate, but a truly amazing law maker.  He had excellent positions on health-care, education, taxes, the economy, GLBT rights, etc. but people chose to disregard it.  At my SD convention, for example, one of the largest sub-caucuses was Franken-Universal Health Care, which was a joke to anyone paying attention.

I doubt Ciresi will run for the Senate again, but if he does, I&#039;ll be his strongest supporter.  Let&#039;s hope that DFL activists learn something from this disaster and don&#039;t pick a candidate based on their celebrity or irrational policy positions ever again.  Better yet: EARLY PRIMARY!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Gardog.  JNP was a decent person but there is no way he would have done better in the general than Franken.  Had JNP beaten Franken in the endorsement, Coleman would have been called the winner shortly after the polls closed.</p>
<p>Ciresi was the best choice, but failed because he has common sense and an incredible record.  The two criticisms I remember most from my SD convention were a) he&#8217;s a weathly lawyer and b) he&#8217;s too conservative.  While he is wealthy (based on his personal finance disclosure), it is because of his commitment to fighting for the common good that put him there.  He made history with his case against the tobacco industry and our state benefits every year from his courage and capabilities.  It down right infuriating when I&#8217;d hear someone talk about how great Obama was and then turn around and disparage Ciresi for being a lawyer (Obama is a lawyer, too).  </p>
<p>He certainly isn&#8217;t conservative, either.  I saw Mr. Ciresi speak at a GLBT rally, one of the candidate debates, and at the state fair in 2007 and I can&#8217;t believe people didn&#8217;t see what I saw.  A smart, pragmatic leader who would not just be a Democrat in the Senate, but a truly amazing law maker.  He had excellent positions on health-care, education, taxes, the economy, GLBT rights, etc. but people chose to disregard it.  At my SD convention, for example, one of the largest sub-caucuses was Franken-Universal Health Care, which was a joke to anyone paying attention.</p>
<p>I doubt Ciresi will run for the Senate again, but if he does, I&#8217;ll be his strongest supporter.  Let&#8217;s hope that DFL activists learn something from this disaster and don&#8217;t pick a candidate based on their celebrity or irrational policy positions ever again.  Better yet: EARLY PRIMARY!</p>
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		<title>By: Gardog</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19836</link>
		<dc:creator>Gardog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19836</guid>
		<description>JNP is a nice guy, and he did improve during the campaign for endorsement.  He went from a complete unknown who couldn&#039;t make a cohenrent speech to save his life to a complete unknown outside of the party insiders who could rattle off one heartwarming story about his high school football career followed by a string of populist hot buttons.  JNP is a nice guy, a very bright guy, a true populist, a believer who would have worked hard for a liberal agenda, and could not under any circumstances have won a general election statewide.  That is why he didn&#039;t get the endorsement, not because of some back room deal making.  He wasn&#039;t the spirit of Paul Wellstone reincarnated, much as he and his supporters tried to paint him as such.

Franken is a good public speaker, a very smart guy, and has clearly been able to pull together the money for a serious run.  If he is elected he will work with the new adminstration.  His policy papers and statements show that he is also a dyed in the wool liberal.  The positioin differences between Franken and JNP seem trivial compared to where Coleman&#039;s record puts Coleman.  The DFL convention was an exercise in prgmatism vs. philosophical purity.  It usually is.  What was unusual is that this year pragmatism won.

You can debate forever why Mike Ciresi did so poorly early on, whether it was the wrong year, his past with the party, or a bias against anyone who actually knew a corporate CEO.  What is obvious is that Ciresi would have been a far stronger candidate in a statewide race than JNP ever could have.  Ciresi was the second DFL candidate for endorsement who had a chance of bringing together the money it was going to take to run against Coleman.  He was already a good public speaker, not a novice learning his way around the podium.  He had a solid record he could point to on events which the public would recognize and remember.  He had coherent and complete statements on policy issues.  And lastly, he was known to all of the DFL party faithful who needed to actively support the endorsed candidate.  A major part of what hurt Franken&#039;s candidacy was the opposition he received from too many within the DFL itself, particularly pouting JNP supporters.

The bottom line is that the DFL would have preferred any one of the three to Coleman.  JNP could not have won, and we may find out that Franken did not win, but Mike Ciresi definitely could have been a strong candidate, and likely stronger than Franken in the end.  Should Franken end up losing, I hope that Ciresi still has one more run in him.  Whether Ciresi can muster enough faith in the DFL to try again, and the DFL can get pragmatic enough to endorse him would be a long shot, but one can always hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JNP is a nice guy, and he did improve during the campaign for endorsement.  He went from a complete unknown who couldn&#8217;t make a cohenrent speech to save his life to a complete unknown outside of the party insiders who could rattle off one heartwarming story about his high school football career followed by a string of populist hot buttons.  JNP is a nice guy, a very bright guy, a true populist, a believer who would have worked hard for a liberal agenda, and could not under any circumstances have won a general election statewide.  That is why he didn&#8217;t get the endorsement, not because of some back room deal making.  He wasn&#8217;t the spirit of Paul Wellstone reincarnated, much as he and his supporters tried to paint him as such.</p>
<p>Franken is a good public speaker, a very smart guy, and has clearly been able to pull together the money for a serious run.  If he is elected he will work with the new adminstration.  His policy papers and statements show that he is also a dyed in the wool liberal.  The positioin differences between Franken and JNP seem trivial compared to where Coleman&#8217;s record puts Coleman.  The DFL convention was an exercise in prgmatism vs. philosophical purity.  It usually is.  What was unusual is that this year pragmatism won.</p>
<p>You can debate forever why Mike Ciresi did so poorly early on, whether it was the wrong year, his past with the party, or a bias against anyone who actually knew a corporate CEO.  What is obvious is that Ciresi would have been a far stronger candidate in a statewide race than JNP ever could have.  Ciresi was the second DFL candidate for endorsement who had a chance of bringing together the money it was going to take to run against Coleman.  He was already a good public speaker, not a novice learning his way around the podium.  He had a solid record he could point to on events which the public would recognize and remember.  He had coherent and complete statements on policy issues.  And lastly, he was known to all of the DFL party faithful who needed to actively support the endorsed candidate.  A major part of what hurt Franken&#8217;s candidacy was the opposition he received from too many within the DFL itself, particularly pouting JNP supporters.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that the DFL would have preferred any one of the three to Coleman.  JNP could not have won, and we may find out that Franken did not win, but Mike Ciresi definitely could have been a strong candidate, and likely stronger than Franken in the end.  Should Franken end up losing, I hope that Ciresi still has one more run in him.  Whether Ciresi can muster enough faith in the DFL to try again, and the DFL can get pragmatic enough to endorse him would be a long shot, but one can always hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Hatch-Moe-Humphrey</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19796</link>
		<dc:creator>Hatch-Moe-Humphrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19796</guid>
		<description>Yeah, DFL tossed away plenty of elections. Running Larry, Curly and Moe for gov instead
of the many Klobechar type lady candidates that would have waltzed away with landslides.

So now we are stuck with Frankenstein, but hey, just get the spoiled 4% (criminal spoilage by the way) of the absentee ballots counted and Franky will take it by the skin of his fore.

Not counting 4% of the absentee ballots is a huge hole in the elections and must be corrected
by rules and legislation for future elections.  Do they toss 4% in WA and the mail in ballot?
The absentee ballot procedures have serious problems, it creates a large pool of ballots
that can be manipulated by capricious decisions, (ooo, I don&#039;t like the look of that signature...),
and the increase of absentee ballots to 10% of ballots cast is too large a problem to be 
ignored.  I know the Sec of State office reads this stuff, so get this problem fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, DFL tossed away plenty of elections. Running Larry, Curly and Moe for gov instead<br />
of the many Klobechar type lady candidates that would have waltzed away with landslides.</p>
<p>So now we are stuck with Frankenstein, but hey, just get the spoiled 4% (criminal spoilage by the way) of the absentee ballots counted and Franky will take it by the skin of his fore.</p>
<p>Not counting 4% of the absentee ballots is a huge hole in the elections and must be corrected<br />
by rules and legislation for future elections.  Do they toss 4% in WA and the mail in ballot?<br />
The absentee ballot procedures have serious problems, it creates a large pool of ballots<br />
that can be manipulated by capricious decisions, (ooo, I don&#8217;t like the look of that signature&#8230;),<br />
and the increase of absentee ballots to 10% of ballots cast is too large a problem to be<br />
ignored.  I know the Sec of State office reads this stuff, so get this problem fixed.</p>
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		<title>By: D</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19769</link>
		<dc:creator>D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19769</guid>
		<description>Ummm no, Read the article this is electoral history in MN to if Franken wins blah blah. Both in Senators losing in pres winning years as well as the incredible amount of money spent. I do agree that people will forget and celebrate and all that. However the taxpayers and other organizations that are spending tons of time on the recount could be focusing on something that mattered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm no, Read the article this is electoral history in MN to if Franken wins blah blah. Both in Senators losing in pres winning years as well as the incredible amount of money spent. I do agree that people will forget and celebrate and all that. However the taxpayers and other organizations that are spending tons of time on the recount could be focusing on something that mattered.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19768</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19768</guid>
		<description>If Franken wins, the DFL will look ingenious for picking him, and many critics will pretend they were behind him all the way. Win by one vote, you ran a brilliant campaign. Lose by one, get out the firing squad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Franken wins, the DFL will look ingenious for picking him, and many critics will pretend they were behind him all the way. Win by one vote, you ran a brilliant campaign. Lose by one, get out the firing squad.</p>
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		<title>By: The Dude</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19766</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19766</guid>
		<description>&quot;Both JNP and Franken’s policy positions were unintelligble for people who took and understood a basic high school civics class.&quot;

Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Both JNP and Franken’s policy positions were unintelligble for people who took and understood a basic high school civics class.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: The Dude</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19764</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19764</guid>
		<description>Haha, yeah, JNP DEFINITELY represented the state. Or the 5th district, whatever. And he voted with DLC policies? Funny, I don&#039;t remember ever having seen him in office. Well, it was probably at the same time he was supporting corporate issues, whatever the hell that means.

Do you people seriously think JNP would have gotten the support of a single person in CDs 1, 2, 6, 7, or 8?  You should throw him up in a CD5 primary where he belongs, not in a statewide race. Have you ever even been to rural Minnesota?

Agreed that the endorsement process is a failure. Disagree about everything else you say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, yeah, JNP DEFINITELY represented the state. Or the 5th district, whatever. And he voted with DLC policies? Funny, I don&#8217;t remember ever having seen him in office. Well, it was probably at the same time he was supporting corporate issues, whatever the hell that means.</p>
<p>Do you people seriously think JNP would have gotten the support of a single person in CDs 1, 2, 6, 7, or 8?  You should throw him up in a CD5 primary where he belongs, not in a statewide race. Have you ever even been to rural Minnesota?</p>
<p>Agreed that the endorsement process is a failure. Disagree about everything else you say.</p>
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		<title>By: D</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19762</link>
		<dc:creator>D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19762</guid>
		<description>Ciresi was the only candidate in the Senate race on the DFL side that had policy positions that made any sense coupled with real life experience proving the ability to deliver. He certainly was not on the &#039;corporate side&#039; on the issues any more than JNP would have been in reality. Ciresi is simply pragmatic. He won&#039;t promise you the moon that&#039;s all. Obama is pragmatic as well. It does require an understanding of how the system works to be an effective Senator. Both JNP and Franken&#039;s policy positions were unintelligble for people who took and understood a basic high school civics class. However it is all over. The moral of the story is that the DFL endorsement is fatally flawed. It is a handful of voters making a decision for the rest of the state. Most people who vote democrat and consider themselves democrat have no idea about the endorsement process. Whether it was Franken&#039;s celebrity, Ciresi&#039;s campaign organization, JNP&#039;s I don&#039;t know what we don&#039;t know. The moral of the story fundamentally is the disgusting amount of money spent in this race. The ugly nature of the advertisements and where things currently stand. Ciresi could have won by five points with very little campaign organization and a few good tv ads frankly. That much is a fact. There were many Obama supporters that could not support Franken. There was no way to move them even with solid persuasion and face to face contact. Its a shame that the endorsement process is able to be such a clear example of lemmings off of a cliff. Move the endorsement up a month or two and put the primary six weeks behind no later than June 15. That is my suggestion. Sorry if I offended anyone. This is my opinion and I am more than willing to go to bat for it. JNP is a great guy. I don&#039;t think he is a great candidate or realistic. Franken I voted for and campaigned for. Thats about all I can say there. Not a good candidate either. He will be a vote to help avoid Filibusters. 

Thank you good night and good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ciresi was the only candidate in the Senate race on the DFL side that had policy positions that made any sense coupled with real life experience proving the ability to deliver. He certainly was not on the &#8216;corporate side&#8217; on the issues any more than JNP would have been in reality. Ciresi is simply pragmatic. He won&#8217;t promise you the moon that&#8217;s all. Obama is pragmatic as well. It does require an understanding of how the system works to be an effective Senator. Both JNP and Franken&#8217;s policy positions were unintelligble for people who took and understood a basic high school civics class. However it is all over. The moral of the story is that the DFL endorsement is fatally flawed. It is a handful of voters making a decision for the rest of the state. Most people who vote democrat and consider themselves democrat have no idea about the endorsement process. Whether it was Franken&#8217;s celebrity, Ciresi&#8217;s campaign organization, JNP&#8217;s I don&#8217;t know what we don&#8217;t know. The moral of the story fundamentally is the disgusting amount of money spent in this race. The ugly nature of the advertisements and where things currently stand. Ciresi could have won by five points with very little campaign organization and a few good tv ads frankly. That much is a fact. There were many Obama supporters that could not support Franken. There was no way to move them even with solid persuasion and face to face contact. Its a shame that the endorsement process is able to be such a clear example of lemmings off of a cliff. Move the endorsement up a month or two and put the primary six weeks behind no later than June 15. That is my suggestion. Sorry if I offended anyone. This is my opinion and I am more than willing to go to bat for it. JNP is a great guy. I don&#8217;t think he is a great candidate or realistic. Franken I voted for and campaigned for. Thats about all I can say there. Not a good candidate either. He will be a vote to help avoid Filibusters. </p>
<p>Thank you good night and good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: PNRead</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19758</link>
		<dc:creator>PNRead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19758</guid>
		<description>@Kai -- 100% agreement! JNP would have been a much stronger candidate.  The debacle of the Rochester convention, where DFL insiders shot themselves in the ___ (fill in the blank) again as they pandered to the idol named &quot;celebrity,&quot; is the reason I no longer consider myself a Democrat.  And an I-told-you-so to everyone who thought Obama was going to be a progressive change agent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kai &#8212; 100% agreement! JNP would have been a much stronger candidate.  The debacle of the Rochester convention, where DFL insiders shot themselves in the ___ (fill in the blank) again as they pandered to the idol named &#8220;celebrity,&#8221; is the reason I no longer consider myself a Democrat.  And an I-told-you-so to everyone who thought Obama was going to be a progressive change agent.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/18994/longing-for-mike-ciresi/comment-page-1#comment-19754</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=18994#comment-19754</guid>
		<description>Considering how early Mike Ciresi dropped out during the convention process, and why - the fact that he was taking third place in the number of delegates that he was getting, the title of this post should have been Longing for Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer?  Jack is much more of a progressive and clearly would represent the people of the state unlike Ciresi who leaned heavily toward the corporate side of issues and vote toward the failed DLC policies that helped to this state and country to condition that we are in now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering how early Mike Ciresi dropped out during the convention process, and why &#8211; the fact that he was taking third place in the number of delegates that he was getting, the title of this post should have been Longing for Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer?  Jack is much more of a progressive and clearly would represent the people of the state unlike Ciresi who leaned heavily toward the corporate side of issues and vote toward the failed DLC policies that helped to this state and country to condition that we are in now.</p>
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