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	<title>Comments on: Court rules Sen. Larry Craig can&#8217;t drop guilty plea; ACLU says, &#8216;They&#8217;re wrong&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Chris Steller</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/19536/court-rules-sen-larry-craig-cant-drop-guilty-plea/comment-page-1#comment-20435</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Steller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=19536#comment-20435</guid>
		<description>Jeffrey Maas, thank you for the comment. I appreciate your bringing your experience and knowledge as a law student to bear on this point, particularly what you are hearing about the easing of (or at least variation in) restrictions on using unpublished cases as precedent. And I don&#039;t have to look very far back in my own experience as a reporter to know that you are right about Bush v. Gore: Al Franken&#039;s attorney, David Lillehaug, &lt;a href=&quot;http://minnesotaindependent.com/17781/live-blog-canvassing-board-meeting&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cited that case before the State Canvassing Board&lt;/a&gt; Nov. 18 for some equal-protection precedent he wanted applied to the Senate recount. 

A couple things in the state appeals court opinion on the Craig case do seem to underscore the idea that unpublished status means limited future use as precedent. The first words of the opinion, at the top of page one before even the name of the case or the court, are: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;This opinion will be unpublished and may not be cited except as provided by Minn. Stat. § 480A.08, subd. 3 (2006).&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;
So even though the case is more or less as accessible online at the court&#039;s website as a published case is, it comes with a strong warning at the outset. And in a footnote on page 6,  Chief Judge Toussaint (who wrote the opinion) cites that same state statute to reject Craig&#039;s claim that case law says the term &quot;other&quot; only applies when there are more than two in the room: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Appellant cites unpublished opinions of this court disagreeing with the C.S.K. analysis. But unpublished opinions are not precedential. Minn. Stat. § 480A.08, subd. 3 (2006).&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Legal points aside (I&#039;m not a law student or a lawyer, though I did consult one or two for this post), I mainly meant to point out the irony in the opinion on Craig&#039;s case being unpublished, after all the concern in the public debate and the media that the senator would receive special treatment one way or the other. Unpublished puts this opinion in the quivers of those who would say the judges treated him differently than they intend to treat average people in similar circumstances in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey Maas, thank you for the comment. I appreciate your bringing your experience and knowledge as a law student to bear on this point, particularly what you are hearing about the easing of (or at least variation in) restrictions on using unpublished cases as precedent. And I don&#8217;t have to look very far back in my own experience as a reporter to know that you are right about Bush v. Gore: Al Franken&#8217;s attorney, David Lillehaug, <a href="http://minnesotaindependent.com/17781/live-blog-canvassing-board-meeting" rel="nofollow">cited that case before the State Canvassing Board</a> Nov. 18 for some equal-protection precedent he wanted applied to the Senate recount. </p>
<p>A couple things in the state appeals court opinion on the Craig case do seem to underscore the idea that unpublished status means limited future use as precedent. The first words of the opinion, at the top of page one before even the name of the case or the court, are: </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;This opinion will be unpublished and may not be cited except as provided by Minn. Stat. § 480A.08, subd. 3 (2006).&#8221; </p></blockquote>
<p>So even though the case is more or less as accessible online at the court&#8217;s website as a published case is, it comes with a strong warning at the outset. And in a footnote on page 6,  Chief Judge Toussaint (who wrote the opinion) cites that same state statute to reject Craig&#8217;s claim that case law says the term &#8220;other&#8221; only applies when there are more than two in the room: </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Appellant cites unpublished opinions of this court disagreeing with the C.S.K. analysis. But unpublished opinions are not precedential. Minn. Stat. § 480A.08, subd. 3 (2006).&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Legal points aside (I&#8217;m not a law student or a lawyer, though I did consult one or two for this post), I mainly meant to point out the irony in the opinion on Craig&#8217;s case being unpublished, after all the concern in the public debate and the media that the senator would receive special treatment one way or the other. Unpublished puts this opinion in the quivers of those who would say the judges treated him differently than they intend to treat average people in similar circumstances in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Maas</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/19536/court-rules-sen-larry-craig-cant-drop-guilty-plea/comment-page-1#comment-20402</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Maas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=19536#comment-20402</guid>
		<description>Re: Unpublished decisions, a minor clarification
Three points: 
First, unless the case said why they were not going to publish it, then it is at least as likely that the court chose not to publish the opinion because they felt it was not breaking new ground. If the judges deciding the case feel there&#039;s nothing new added to the jurisprudence, then the rule at appellate levels is not to publish. As a law student, it is my understanding that most appellate cases don&#039;t get published because the case doesn&#039;t build anything new, not because they are concerned about it being used as precedent. 

Which leads to my second point: in this modern age, the difference between published and unpublished status and their value is shrinking. Even unpublished cases are available online (as the provided link obviously illustrates), so if I, as an attorney, were to find an unpublished case that helped me in some way, I might at least borrow some of the reasoning or analysis from it. Some courts have specific rules against the use of unpublished cases, but other courts at least are open to hearing why an unpublished case should be used as a persuasive authority (certainly one would not present it as precedential authority). A practicing attorney here in the state could probably tell me I&#039;m full of beans here, but in school we&#039;re hearing that occasionally unpublished cases are being used in some places. Of course, being able to use it and that being a wise lawyering tactic are two different things.

Last point: Even if the court expressly tries to disclaim a case as being non-precedential, that&#039;s not necessarily how it will be treated in the future. I think about Bush v. Gore as a great example of this, where the court tried to say the holding was limited to only the Bush-Gore dispute, but it has gone on to be used a lot by attorneys since it was handed down. (On the other hand, there is little doubt that designation of an appellate decision as unpublished IS more likely to result in it simply being ignored going forward.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Unpublished decisions, a minor clarification<br />
Three points:<br />
First, unless the case said why they were not going to publish it, then it is at least as likely that the court chose not to publish the opinion because they felt it was not breaking new ground. If the judges deciding the case feel there&#8217;s nothing new added to the jurisprudence, then the rule at appellate levels is not to publish. As a law student, it is my understanding that most appellate cases don&#8217;t get published because the case doesn&#8217;t build anything new, not because they are concerned about it being used as precedent. </p>
<p>Which leads to my second point: in this modern age, the difference between published and unpublished status and their value is shrinking. Even unpublished cases are available online (as the provided link obviously illustrates), so if I, as an attorney, were to find an unpublished case that helped me in some way, I might at least borrow some of the reasoning or analysis from it. Some courts have specific rules against the use of unpublished cases, but other courts at least are open to hearing why an unpublished case should be used as a persuasive authority (certainly one would not present it as precedential authority). A practicing attorney here in the state could probably tell me I&#8217;m full of beans here, but in school we&#8217;re hearing that occasionally unpublished cases are being used in some places. Of course, being able to use it and that being a wise lawyering tactic are two different things.</p>
<p>Last point: Even if the court expressly tries to disclaim a case as being non-precedential, that&#8217;s not necessarily how it will be treated in the future. I think about Bush v. Gore as a great example of this, where the court tried to say the holding was limited to only the Bush-Gore dispute, but it has gone on to be used a lot by attorneys since it was handed down. (On the other hand, there is little doubt that designation of an appellate decision as unpublished IS more likely to result in it simply being ignored going forward.)</p>
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		<title>By: LimaBN</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/19536/court-rules-sen-larry-craig-cant-drop-guilty-plea/comment-page-1#comment-20311</link>
		<dc:creator>LimaBN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=19536#comment-20311</guid>
		<description>Mr. Craig might want to sign on for one of those gay cruise ship tours.  

A little sunshine and good fellowship, away from his own vicious persona
and the people who feed into it just might be enough to mellow him out
long enough to relax, be himself, and turn into a better human being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Craig might want to sign on for one of those gay cruise ship tours.  </p>
<p>A little sunshine and good fellowship, away from his own vicious persona<br />
and the people who feed into it just might be enough to mellow him out<br />
long enough to relax, be himself, and turn into a better human being.</p>
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		<title>By: icecycle</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/19536/court-rules-sen-larry-craig-cant-drop-guilty-plea/comment-page-1#comment-20301</link>
		<dc:creator>icecycle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=19536#comment-20301</guid>
		<description>ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz..oh, I&#039;m sorry. Did someone say something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz..oh, I&#8217;m sorry. Did someone say something?</p>
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		<title>By: John Q Democrat</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/19536/court-rules-sen-larry-craig-cant-drop-guilty-plea/comment-page-1#comment-20294</link>
		<dc:creator>John Q Democrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=19536#comment-20294</guid>
		<description>How can a United States Senator fly home after being arrested, mail in his guilty plea without consulting a lawyer, and then expect to be able to withdraw that plea?

This is a waste of our courts&#039; time and our taxpayers money.

He should be required to pay the court costs, go back to Idaho, and stay there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can a United States Senator fly home after being arrested, mail in his guilty plea without consulting a lawyer, and then expect to be able to withdraw that plea?</p>
<p>This is a waste of our courts&#8217; time and our taxpayers money.</p>
<p>He should be required to pay the court costs, go back to Idaho, and stay there.</p>
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