BBC/Arab media: Iraqi shoe-thrower is being tortured

It’s saddening to think that folks can’t keep their hands off this guy.
I personally think he should be forced to practice throwing shoes ’til he can
throw straight but I guess that’s not the issue. The guy’s a legend on so many
levels, it boggles. Let him go!

It has now been reported that the second shoe came from the grassy knoll.

So he attempts to assault a US president and only gets a broken arm, broken ribs, and internal bleeding? Sounds like he got off easy.

I’ve deleted a few comments, per our comment policy. Keep it clean and relatively civil if you want your fantastically well-thought-out musings to be viewable by others.

This is disgusting. I would say that America should intervene but our track record with torturing people isn’t really that great either.

Dave-
Are you incapable of distinguishing an insult from an assault?

No, I know the difference between an insult and an assault. Giving Bush the finger or yelling something at him would have been an insult. Forcefully throwing something at him, IMO, is attempted assault. I’m no Bush supporter, but it’s no surprise to me that there were serious repercussions for this. The same would happen if someone threw something at Obama during a press conference.

Next time you’re around a police officer why don’t you throw your shoe at them and see if they call it an insult or assault.

Not to mention, you’ll probably get a worse beating than this guy did. At least here in Chicago.

Nobody nowhere should endure torture. Here, we have GWB who is directly or indirectly responsible for over 1M casualties and a shoe-thrower who is responsible for…throwing shoes at the President indeed but no casualties there. We should all ask for his immediate release, that’s what I think we should do.

I am from the middle east. Trust me, when he decided to throw the shoe, he knew what was waiting for him afterwords. Beating a detainee is the norm and is expected. I hope he lives and gets to go home.

Hey, that shoe could have been a bomb. Remember when Timothy McVeigh was caught trying to board an airplane with shoe bombs? You remember your history about the Graf Zeppelin disaster when it blowed up over Lockerbie, Ireland? Oh the humanity? Remember? Blowed up by shoe bombs.

Dave, you don’t punish a crime with more crimes.

Dave, please read up on how throwing your shoe at someone is one of the ultimate insults you can give in the Iraqi culture. Maybe then you’ll see the difference between insult and assault in this case.

It is worse than giving the finger or simply shouting, it takes the insult to a completely different level. That is what was happening. Not attempted assault.

Nor is punishment as severe as has been reported a justified response to the potential damage that could be caused by a pair of flying shoes. The punishment, at the very least, is far out of proportion.

“Nor is punishment as severe as has been reported a justified response to the potential damage that could be caused by a pair of flying shoes. The punishment, at the very least, is far out of proportion.”

I agree with this. I only said that the response didn’t surprise me at all.

I have read about how throwing shoes is supposedly the worst insult in Iraq. If this is the case, I think a simple lob of the shoe in Bush’s direction would have gotten the message across. Also, if this is such a common insult, you’d think the Iraqis “torturing” him would be more understanding and sympathetic.

“Dave, you don’t punish a crime with more crimes.”

Sadly, in many places this is not the case.

Bush has put himself in a bad position, because he can’t really scorn the Iraqis regarding the torture. Furthermore, he can’t dictate any actions to Iraq, because that would undermine the whole purpose of his trip, that Iraq is not a puppet state. However, he could elevate his own standing, and that of the US, by asking the Iraqis for clemency on Zaidi’s behalf. Maybe even granting him an audience once he’s freed, to show that he can accept criticism, and overall be the bigger man. It would be a nice note to go out on.

this is the false american democracy.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=081215101512.zc72xjiu&show_article=1

This disgusts me.

We have Bush saying…”sign of freedom that people feel” then we have the police over there torturing the guy, yeah, that’s democracy Bush.

Bush should have better guidelines on how they treat Iraqi prisoners, no doubt, nor should he have invaded Iraq on nothing but post-911 fervor.

The assailant shouldn’t have thrown his fucking shoe. He could have held his shoe on a pic of Bush if he wanted to get his point across, stood up and yelled something. He didn’t have to try and break the guy’s nose.

Police should never beat anyone in custody. It is for courts to hand out capitol punishment based on laws while officers remain completely objective.

Torture is only admissible if something is going to explode in the next 2hrs or so and that something contains your parents or somebody.

Looks like everybody was wrong on that one.

Leave the guy alone,there are millions of people around this world who would love the chance to do what he did.He was only showing the dislike many of us have for Bush and his forms of tortures.First of all the war he inflicted on the Iraqis, then the way the captives were treated while incarcerated.And the continuing suffering endured by the innocent civilians….All this reporter did was throw a shoe for goodness sake……..

I’m a fatalist. Generally, whatever gets it done with the least trouble is the best solution. This isn’t the case here.

To those who are all, ‘oh, he assaulted the president.’ Fine. Assume throwing shoes is assault, whatever. I’d disagree, considering that shoes aren’t exactly deadly (he’d literally have to beat Bush with his shoes, his steel-toed shoes, probably, to really cause much more than a concussion.) But let’s just assume that it is. Think of the consequences here: We’ve basically tortured a man that arabs, Americans, and many other have idolized. Are you going to be supporting them shouting “death to Americans!” ’cause you consider shoe-throwing torture? Will you be taking responsibility for the surely-coming deaths of American troops because shoe-throwing is assault?

I’d like it be noted that the biggest recruiting tools for terrorist organizations are Abu Ghraib and Guantamino Bay, because of their widely-publicized torture policies. Even if you call it ‘enhanced interrogation,’ basically every huamn being who experiences empathy considers it torture. I’d also like it noted that you’d be a little less likely to call it assault if it were, say, an American journalist throwing shoes at an Arab leader, and the American was being tortured and sentenced to 15 years of prison for throwing said shoes.

But you know, that’s not how it was, and I guess you’re allowed to have double standards. Just remember, that there are people in the Arab world that will be extremely upset about his journalist-turned-hero, and even though I’m not really racist, typically when these particular sets of people get upset in this sort of fashion, people end up dying. I don’t necessarily agree with that behavior, but that’s what happens.

Personally, I think we should have a swift condemnation of these acts of torture from our next president, our current president, his speaker, etc. I have confidence that Obama will speak about it once it becomes more known (and when the riots start), but I doubt Bush will do more than make jokes about how the journalist ‘got the boot’ or something more annoying.

And really, these people are probably not well represented by the shoe-throwing: It only expressed a small part of their anger. Think about it: He’s seen his friends die, his friends families’ die, he’s seen his country torn to bits for what we call ‘democracy.’ I imagine the anger they feel is a lot more than shoe-throwing anger.

i give the man props….i would do the same

So if an American reporter hurls shoes at a visiting foreign president or prime minister will he be let off with a slap on the wrist?

The reporter knew exactly the repercussions of his insult/assault. Suppose if the shoe stuck the president and injured his eye?

If you want to play with fire prepare to be burnt.Do not degrade the presidency for the man.There are other ways to protest.

I wonder whether US would have invaded Iraq if their main asset was broccoli and coffee beans and not oil.(Not my own)

So, when we throw shoes at people, we should fully expect to be tortured by a government that frequently claims that it doesn’t? My, my, it seems I might be safer with murder!

Everyone seems to be missing the point here.

After the ‘attack’, and while the reporter was being hauled away and beaten, President Bush made light of the matter. He could have defused the entire incident right then and there by asking that no harm come to the assailant and letting him be released after the president left but instead, Mr. Bush decided to mock him.

There is little doubt that the Iraqis would have honored any clemency as a political favor had such a request been made.

Instead, Mr. Bush laughed and joked as the poor guy was hauled away to be beaten by his captors. Now, the Arab world sees the assailant as a hero and the Iraqis are coming together for perhaps the first time since the invasion. But are they coming together in support of American ideas about freedom and democracy? I think not. I think that the incident will have a long lasting galvanizing effect on relations between the United States and the rest of the world.

The man was just doing what a lot of people were wishing they had the nerve to do and we attempt to treat it as though it were anything other than what it was; A political statement.

True, it was not a very smart thing to do, but the intent was not physical harm, but an emotional one. Our response (it IS a collective one) is to ridicule the guy, beat him mercilessly, throw him in prison for 15 years and proudly wash our hands of it because he is a ‘criminal’. All this will serve to do is to add fuel to the already significant anti-American sentiment around the world.

If we are to have any leadership on the world stage, we should be appealing for clemency on his behalf, not gloating on his demise. One more human sole rotting away in prison is not going to make a difference one way or the other, but showing the world that we can take an insult without resorting to the use of an iron fist would be priceless.

G.Bush is no better or worse than anyone else. If someone threw a shoe at me, they probably wouldn’t even get arrested. I can understand that the shoe thrower was detained but he doesn’t even deserve to be charged, let alone have his bones broken by thugs. If G.W.Bush was speaking the truth about freedom in Iraq, that man would have been released without a scratch. Bush needs to step in now and stop this from going any further or it’s going to look even worse on him when he (probably) gets impeached for some of his blatant crimes after Obama takes over. Bush knows what he should do but let’s face it, he is GITMO and supports the torturing of men who are being detained indefinitely without being charged. Bush is a liar and a coward, you could see how pathetic he looked when the shoes were heading his way. He can’t operate without an entorage of gorillas around him and is despised the world over for his cowardice and incompetence. He continues to drag America through the dirt even now. I bet Obama is seething at this latest slur on America’s reputation.

I think the fair thing to do is make the punishment fit the crime. If you throw a shoe at my president, then I (as well as all Republicans and some Iraq’s) should reserve the right to throw my shoes at you too. Any injuries that result (ie broken arms, ribs etc) tuff luck. Don’t throw shoes at my president! I don’t care which president; past, present or future

He’s lucky that’s all he got away with

I think ALL secret service that were there should have the same punishment

Whether one likes Bush or not, there is an essential question here: Has the Iraqi government evolved far enough to treat the man in a democratic manner? I am writing without proof that he was beaten/tortured. If that is true and his arrest did not follow a fundamentally democratic process with right to trial, lawyers, and reasonable bond, then I suggest that we have wasted out time in delivering a democratic Iraq. We are not he only ones on trial there, there country is being judged also.

As to those who feel that our president commands respect no matter what grief he has presented, I cannot agree. Unfortunately, we are governed by a president and vice-president who have no respect for the Constitution or for the general well being of citizens of the United States. Sadly, neither deserve respect from anyone.

I would keep this scumbag in custody until he eats both shoes that he threw. These people need to learn the difference between free expression and violating the rights of others. Same with the street protesters who burn storefronts and overturn cars. Just because you want to express yourself, it does not give you the right to impose on the peace or property of others. He was a journalist, he should have held a press conference or written an article calling the President a dog if he wanted. Try to be fair and take step back. Divorce this case from your hatred of George W. Bush. Throwing two shoes at someone’s head is assault. Not attempted assault–assault. If it would have succeeded and hit him, it would have been battery. Assault is a crime. This guy needs to have an appropriate punishment for this crime. And because he did it, at least in part, to get attention, that is an extenuating factor that would justify punishment on the more severe end of the scale for this kind of crime. I would say, all things considered, give him 3 months in jail.

the guys who dragged him out of the conference room beat the hell out of him – there was blood on the carpet and stuff (i really have no problem with this)

guy did some annoying shit and got the crap beat out of him, who cares?

if the guy got shot on site, no one would throw any more fucking shoes – there would obviously be a liberal shit storm about human rights, but at least then, i would never have to hear about this bullshit again

forget bush, forget iraq, forget your stupid politics

Let me you ask you these questions.

1. What would happen if he threw the shoe at Saddam Hussein?
He would have either be executed or thrown in jail the rest of his life, and beaten if thrown in jail, no difference here.

2. What if he threw the shoe here in the USA?
He would have be shot dead by the President’s bodyguards or severly wounded and still possibly die. If he lived he would have been thrown jail a lot longer than 1 year, and think what would happen to him here in jail, a lot worst than happen there especially if he was in generally population, i.e. rapped, etc.