Roman Catholic bishops throughout the United States are planning a massive postcard campaign days after the inauguration as part of an attempt to block the Freedom of Choice Act, known as FOCA, a reproductive health initiative supported by President-elect Barack Obama. But one Minnesota priest is breaking ranks with the national campaign, raising the ire of local and national pro-life Catholics, including some who are calling for his excommunication from the church.
“Our nation and new president will be challenged by ongoing wars, an economy in severe recession, ballooning deficits, high unemployment and an environment and health care system in crisis,” wrote the Rev. Michael Tegeder of St. Edward’s Church in Bloomington. “Yet at this very moment the Catholic bishops have declared that they have this more pressing need.”
That need is to organize a postcard campaign targeting legislators and Obama over abortion legislation.
FOCA will stir a heated debate in upcoming months. Obama pledged to sign it if Congress passes it. “The first thing I’d do, as president, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That’s the first thing that I’d do,” he told Planned Parenthood supporters at a campaign event in 2007.
FOCA would essentially codify the reproductive rights that were interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade.
The bill reads:
“A government may not deny or interfere with a woman’s right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information.”
Tegeder penned his opinion in a letter to the Star Tribune, targeting the bishops’ intent to pressure Obama on FOCA. Tegeder said that among the many problems with the postcard campaign, the bishops are attacking Obama instead of finding common ground.
“We can do many positive things. Indeed, Obama has stated that he wants to reduce the number of abortions. We should work with him on doing this,” Tegeder wrote. “During this season of goodwill, let us offer our new president some and hold back on the confrontation. And to the bishops: Your Graces, remember grace.”
Tegeder’s words directly confront his boss, the Archbishop of St. Paul and Minneapolis, John Neinstedt.
“When I signed up 35 years ago to be a priest, little did I realize that postcards would be an essential tool of ministry in the Catholic Church,” said Tegeder. He pointed to Neinstedt and his postcard campaigns pushing a Republican-led same-sex marriage ban several years ago.
“To someone who did not see this as necessary, it seemed a waste of time and money. It also generated some unnecessary ill will,” wrote Tegeder.
Neinstedt recently weighed in on the FOCA debate and seems to be enthusiastically in support of stopping the legislation. “In effect, FOCA would certainly be a boon to the abortion industry with the government forced to condone and promote such procedures,” Neinstedt wrote on the Archdiocese Web site. “It is hard to imagine a more radical piece of pro-abortion legislation.”
While the Archdiocese hasn’t publicly commented on Tegeder’s letter, members of the laity have. One Catholic blogger called for his excommunication.
Another is initiating a postcard campaign of her own, directed at Tegeder. “Reducing abortions is not an acceptable goal. Stopping abortion entirely is,” wrote a St. Paul Catholic blogger. “Education is a large part of the effort. Father [Tegeder] may need some help understanding this.”
Another Minnesota Catholic blog wrote that Tegeder “not only endangers his own immortal soul, but also those of his parishioners.”
Tegeder has been a controversial member of Minnesota’s Catholic hierarchy. He has supported moves toward inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church, opposes the church ban on priests marrying, and once called Neinstedt “self-righteous” and “a bully.”
Photo by Susan WD.













44 Comments »
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 6:52 pm
It seems that Fr. Tegeder is a very confused priest as well as a Catholic man. Abortion is the single biggest holocaust to ever rage against innocent life in our history. You can sight all the wars you want, but none have even come close to the destruction of the most innocent of human life; that of the unborn and now “BORN” child. Just like Judas, he seems to think that spending all that money on murdered babies could be better spent on the poor. I think prayer for this man’s conversion is in order for anyone who reads his words. God give you the grace to wash away your blindness and God bless our US Bishops for standing up and doing what is right. It takes great courage to do so. Pace et terra
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
I agree Mark Andreas; good points.
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
Regarding Tegeder’s argument that Obama has other social and economic issues more important than abortion I would ask what other issue has resulted in the death of 50 million people?
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
It also took great courage to write a letter and, as it were, stir the pot among the faithful on this issue. It seems that more people like the corespondent will be incensed by Fr. Tegeder’s “apostasy” on refusing to circle the wagons on this divisive issue than will be stirred up by the Bishops’ position. But these individuals are those like the previous correspondent who will never see any difference between taking a hand’s off approach to the private decisions of women over a medical procedure and the genocidal policies of the Nazi regime toward Jews. The FOCA will stir things up too but will finally clear the path for this country to move on. It is a way of saying: you have been heard but there is no way that we can allow a religious conviction to become the law of the land and override the private decisions of people to determine the course of their own lives and souls.
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 8:38 pm
jonerik,
Well written comment. Too bad you can’t see the forest for the trees. Maybe you should watch the movie “Horton Hears a Who!” or something!
Backwards thinking (like yours) is exactly what allows human beings to be killed on a massive scale. And THAT is exactly what is going on in our culture – government sanctioned (and financially supported) extermination of human beings. It is a fact. Wake up. We are LITERALLY talking about killing human beings… MILLIONS of human beings. Your euphemisms (”private decisions of women over a ‘medical procedure’”) and rhetoric may help fund the billion dollar abortion industry – but they also help ensure the killing of MILLIONS of human beings. I repeat… millions.
Facts are facts – and you’re not on the right side of the facts.
Callous, ignorant, spoiled-rotten, Americans we are… so cavalier about human life. So sad that people well-educated and well-intentioned could ever be complicit to such a huge human rights disaster! Genocide? Holocaust? Don’t like the words jonerik? Can you think of more accurate ones when we are talking about millions of human beings killed every year?
Facts are facts – and you are on the wrong side of those facts. It’s a fact.
Turn away from the Dark Side – Darth Jonerik! Get your head on straight and think this issue THROUGH! Don’t settle for regurgitating abortion industry propaganda – don’t settle for ANY propaganda! THINK IT THROUGH FOR YOURSELF! The answer is clear.
Without the “right” to live – no other rights matter. And in our country – human beings do NOT have a right to live. Think about it long and hard. And try to separate yourself from your anti-religious prejudices. The fact that religious people have it figured out more-so than non-religious is interesting – but isn’t the point.
Many years from now – people will look back with curiosity (perhaps disgust) and marvel at how such an “advanced” culture could ever do such a thing. How CAN we!?
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 8:49 pm
“private decisions of women over a medical procedure ”
Since when is the taking of an innocent life a “medical prodedure”???
And then there are the other repercussions such as the link with cancer, depression, suicide, sterility and then the even more important repercussion which is DEATH of souls involved.
So many are so blind to the dignity and right to life of the unborn. This is not a woman’s body that is dismembered in abortion; this body belongs to another. It is a genocide like none ever.
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 8:54 pm
FOCA WILL LEAD TO INFANTICIDE, EUTHANSIA,GENOCIDE.
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 9:37 pm
Does Tegeder still wear his green silk? sports coat? Stylish square-rimmed glasses…check out his cute shoes too…
Ab Nienstedt: Do us a favor and send this guy to, say, Warroad, Minnesota, if they’ll
have him.
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 9:51 pm
Sorry jonerik, abortion is NOT a private matter between the woman and her doctor. When you kill one child you kill humanity. That is why, it is not a legitimate goal to limit abortions. Abortion is already your law of the land, and get use to it, there are millions who do not want abortion to be the law of their land.
Comment posted January 5, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
Hey, jonerik. It is not about a “religious conviction” becoming the law of the land. It is a MORAL PRINCIPLE that happens to be in total concordance with Christian values and the Natural Law. Besides whether people like it or not, accept it or not, their souls are in REAL danger of eternal perdition when supporting this so called “right to choose” to kill innocent human beings, which by the way at some point in time we all were. May God give you and all who think alike (including Obama) the light to see things for what they really are and repent before it is too late. I will pray for you! I totally agree with you, Mark.To all the US bishops, keep up the terrific work and may the Lord give you the courage, strenght and tenacity you need to do your work!
God bless
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 1:50 am
Some clarification –
First: The last paragraph says “[Fr. Tegeder] has supported moves toward inclusion of gays and lesbians in the church”
This is probably just poorly written. Gay and Lesbian men and women are already included in the Catholic Church. The writer probably means to say that Fr. Tegeder supports marriage for Gay couples – or something similar. Catholics don’t consider this a matter of controversy since the teaching on marriage is set – in other words, in the Catholic Church there is not two sides to the story any more than there is “another” side or a point of controversy for divorced and remarried couples, or couples living together before marriage, or couples living in adultery.
Second: The next line in the same paragraph says that Fr. T “opposes the church ban on priests marrying.” The practice of a celibate priesthood is a discipline in the Church; it is not a ban per se. There are some married priests and it is something that could change in the future (personally, I don’t think it will but it is possible.)
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 9:55 am
FOCA is an awful piece of legislation introduced in the last Congress and I fully agree with the Archbishop’s opposition to it. Thankfully, the billed died when Congress adjourned without so much as a hearing or even a subcommittee vote, not to mention a committee vote or passage by the House OR the Senate. As of right now, there is no “FOCA”.
Maybe it will be introduced in the new session of Congress. Maybe it will get a subcommittee vote even though Congress has the same leadership in charge as last year, though it is unlikely.
However, even the most pessimistic pro-lifer cannot come up with a count of Members of Congress that suggests this bill could even come close to passing.
Father Tegeder is correct and the Archbishop of full of beans.
This is a proposal (bad as it is) that has no chance of going anywhere. But the Archbishop has decided to ignore action on real issues before the nation and Minnesota and instead drum up emotions on this phony issue.
I suspect that the Archbishop is not fronting for the Republican Party but is just a sap who has been lured in by them. The whole phony anti-”FOCA” campaign was developed by conservatives who can’t get over the fact that Obama won the election. They are looking for a phony issue to attack him because they know they can’t beat him on the real issues of economic justice, fairness to workers, peace in the world, protection of the environment and compassion for the poor.
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 12:03 pm
Will they be sending out postcards to stir the pot concerning all the deaths resulting from the war in Iraq,the Gaza strip, et al? Probably not.
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 3:21 pm
Whether you agree with Fr. Tegeder or not, you have to admire his tremendous courage in publicly disagreeing with the Catholic hierarchy. It would be so much easier not to rock the boat. I applaud him.
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 7:11 pm
Warren,
I agree. Some postcards that highlight the death of innocents by Al-Qaida terrorists in Iraq and the death of innocents by Hamas terrorists in Gaza would be very appropriate. What are you waiting for? Get thee to a printing press.
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
Katherine – FOCA is a real concern for pro-lifers because Obama has publicly provided reason for his party to rally behind it. And IF it were to pass – it would have devastating effects on our country…
Warren – what do you care about what the Catholic hierarchy does in regards to the conflict in the middle-east? I bet you don’t have the first clue about what the word “Catholic” means do you? You clearly have no idea how deeply the Catholic Church is effected by this conflict… no idea at all. I’m a Maronite Catholic – and let me just tell you point blank – you are extremely ignorant. You know nothing about what is going on in the Middle East – and you know even less (if that is possible) about the Catholic Church. Try raising the bar for dialogue instead of lowering it next time.
SkyBlueWater – tremendous courage for publicly disagreeing with the Catholic hierarchy? I’m not convinced… after all… WHAT is Fr. Tegeder publicly opposing? Nothing if not the fact that the Church is trying to teach, remind, and express to American culture that human life is sacred and will be defended by faithful Catholics at every turn… forever… because that is what God calls them to do!
Yeah! I hear you Fr. Tegeder! How dare your Bishop and the “hierarchy” try to help people develop good principles – and how dare those Bishops try to defend humanity itself! Good going Father Tegeder! Way to sock it to them old power-hungry guys who aren’t “with the times!!” After all – EVERYBODY listens to the Bishops right!? It certainly won’t hurt their position(s) of GREAT influence in this country if their own Priests fight them… when they are so obviously doing evil! Ha ha!
You only get points for being a rebel – if you are rebelling against something evil. It is people like Fr. Tegeder that lead the Church into scandal by not preaching the Truth of Jesus Christ to a confused and hurting world. His behavior is unacceptable as a Catholic priest – and he needs our prayers, not our congratulations.
Comment posted January 6, 2009 @ 11:06 pm
“It also generated some unnecessary ill will,” wrote Tegeder. This nuttsy-fagen is more interested in not hurting BO’s thin skin or in not offending the members of the Democrat/Marxist Party in Minnesota than he is in taking a militant stand against an inherently evil practice that has been legally “blessed” by shysters in black robes. Brave men died for less in Nazi concentration camps. This guy is an ugly disgrace to his diocese, to the Church, but above all, to himself.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 7:25 am
Over 60 million children killed in the womb and Katherine thinks FOCA is a phony issue?? 50% of Catholics think there’s nothing incompatible with supporting abortion, same sex marriage, and other social re-engineering issues and being a “good Catholic”, and the Bishop’s are wasting their time tryinmg to call Catholics back to faithfulness???
Benedict XVI noted several years ago that the future Catholic Church might be smaller but more faithful.
At a time when theologically faithful Episopal Church laity, clergy, indeed, entire Diocese are migrating back to Catholicism in response to the continued moral implosion of their church, perhaps we could help them regain some membership. Fr Tegeder and more like him, both laity and clergy may feel much more at home with Bishops like Gene Robinson, John Spong and Katharine Jefferts Schori. In a spirit of love, recognizing the grace that Fr Tegeder noted, let us encourage the disgruntled, the dissident, the borderline heretical, theologians who want us to accept a Jesus who may or may not have risen, a Jesus who may or may not have been born of a virgin, and a Jesus who couldn’t have really performed miracles as they violate contemporary natural science, but particularly those who want to “remake” the Catholic Church from within…or as they oxymoronically call themselves, “the loyal opposition”, to RUN to their new home where compassion, love, inclusion, acceptance, and tolerance of sin and sinner alike are the only foundational beliefs. No such thing as repenting of dis-ordered behaviours (personal sin in other words) of any kind will be preached here….thank you very much!!! Even though personal sin is the root of societal sin, let’s focus on the latter. Ain’t non-judgemental universal salvation a wonderful thing! Gets rid of all that narrow gate and few will be saved nonsense…
Lord knows, the American Episcopal Church could certainly use the membership.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 7:31 am
I would ask Fr. Tegeder what compromise does he want to make on the issue of terminating a human life? Perhaps if he can’t follow the Church’s teaching and promoting universal truths, maybe he should step aside before he scandalizes any more people with his dissenting views.
Also, Jonerik, do you think our country, back when slavery was the law of the land, “move on” and get to more important things?
It all starts with life. If you don’t defend life itself, how hypocritical it is to attempt to defend other social issues that involve life.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 9:32 am
I am disgusted by Fr. Tegeder.
The Freedom of Choice Act would FORCE Catholic hospitals to perform abortions, and FORCE Catholic doctors to perform abortions. It would END all PARENTAL NOTIFICATION laws and COMMON SENSE regulations on abortion that the VAST MAJORITY of the American people agree with.
This priest needs to be excommunicated… FORTHWITH. For the sake of clarity, and for the salvation of souls. He is in Satan’s service. We do not need any more “priests” like this. Enough is enough.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 10:49 am
FACTS: Our Bishops could stop this holocaust of murdering babies, and the other intrinsic immoral legislation in a very short time. All they have to do is exercise Cannon Law and prohibit every politician who has control over voting and endorsing those intrinsically immoral evils that THERE ARE FIRST DENIED HOLY COMMUNION; AND FACE EXCOMMUNICATION IF THEY CONTINUE TO DISREGARD A BISHOP’S MANDATE.
I profess that this would have absolute results since the public humiliation would prevail, as well as some who are somewhat connected to their Catholic faith to give in and come back to the Church and ask forgiveness for their sins for supporting intrinsic evils.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 12:43 pm
Tedgeder is a bad priest and a bad Catholic. He should have his priestly faculties removed and be excommunicated immediately. Tolerance by clerical authorities for the evil he is doing is sinful itself and a source of scandal and great dismay to the faithful.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
The language of euphemism must be challenged continually in regard to the killing of pre-born children. “Medical procedure” , “choice.” In Nazi Germany – “relocation camps”; in post Roe America – “family planning centers”. They’re lies that anesthetize us to the horror of what is occurring. Over 50 MILLION pre-born children have been murdered in the United States alone.
Remember the heat the Catholic Church has taken over WWII for supposedly not saying enough against the Holocaust. Can there be any doubt that future generations will look back at this time of barbarity – killing innocent, pre-born children on a scale that dwarfs the Holocaust – in complete disgust and ask what the Church did?
It seems clear that Fr. Tegeder has not truly grasped the ugly enormity of what is occurring, he has not truly understood the humanity of the unborn child – in much the same way as he Nazis dehumanized the Jews. They were called untermenschen – sub-human. They are hidden away, out of sight and therefore easier to forget or push to the side. The economy, you know. Important, pressing matters for the adults to tackle. We’ll get back to the lesser issues once the serious once are under control.
Pray that Fr. Tegeder’s mind, heart and spirit and enlivened. And pray that the bishops are not swayed by the confusion of such men.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 2:11 pm
Facts of Life:
From the moment of conception, an unborn child’s DNA is as complete as an adult’s. Three weeks after conception an unborn child has a heartbeat and her own blood supply. At 6 weeks she has measurable brainwaves. Yet she can be killed for any reason or no reason whatsoever up to moment of birth.
At the end of life, what do we use to determine death? Heartbeat and brainwaves.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 7:58 pm
What a bunch of phony bologna blowhards. You catholics scream about abortion while you support the largest pedophile organization in the world , commonly known as the catholic “church”. Instead of worrying about other people, why don’t you mind your own business and pray God forgives you for your own holocaust against children.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 7:59 pm
THe FOCA has been stalled for a decade. It likely won’t reach Obama’s desk ever. The Bishops should be activists on pro-life isses. This, however, is a side show.
Comment posted January 7, 2009 @ 11:13 pm
To all of those saying abortion is bad on the account of god :
1. God is all-powerful.
2. God is all-good.
3. Everything God does is good.
4. God wants humans to be good.
5. If humans imitate God, who is all-good, then humans will be good.
6. God created the human reproductive system.
7. At least 25% of fertilized human eggs are spontaneously aborted.
8. This makes God the world’s biggest abortionist.
9. Humans should have more abortions.
Comment posted January 8, 2009 @ 1:33 am
I disagree with you there karla – I think the largest pedophile organization in the world is probably the Public School System in the United States of America! By the way you make it sound – a child ISN’T more likely (to the tune of nearly four-hundred percent) to be abused by their public school teachers – than by a member of the clergy (Catholic OR Protestant.) You’re grossly misinformed if you think children are safer in the classroom.
Why don’t YOU mind your own business – instead of taking cheap shots at people who are trying to fight evil. After all… whose side do you really want to be on? Evil is evil… and this is a fight between good and evil. Time to step up to the plate – and start to shed your ignorance!
Comment posted January 8, 2009 @ 9:31 am
Greg, are you saying the abortion issue is a sideshow? Was the holocaust in Nazi Germany a side show? We have to step up to confront evil whereever it is.
B. Hanson, since God is all good he cannot do evil. God is love. A spontaneous abortion occurs when something is not right in the body. We are creatures and suffering occurs in this world. One thought that has been long articulated is that God permits suffering and evil to occur so that a greater good can come from it. We may not understand God ways because he is far above our own feeble minds. We are creatures. He is God. By the way, are you an athiest?
Comment posted January 8, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
Let’s not forget that Michael Tegeder, in order to snub the Archbishop’s stoppage of the missuse of Form 3 General Absolution, (and possibly support his own organizational laziness)held a non-sacramental reconciliation service last month without the benefit of absolution.
Oh by the way he allowed the break-away dissenters group known as Call To Action to meet at his church on November 15th, 2008, and he has directly supported the banned catholic pastoral committee on sexual minorities in working with the children and adults of his parish.
Comment posted January 8, 2009 @ 11:03 pm
Continue to fight against this and keep voting for your republican supporters and you’ll end up living like the Mexicans we are trying to keep out of this country. Bridges are falling,schools are hurting and the rich are getting big tax breaks because they have the fools on their side!
How dare a priest suggesting an attempt at goodwill when the fight generates so much in contributions….we need the money to pay off the pedophile lawsuits.
Wake up and live your faith privately!
Comment posted January 10, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
MESSAGE #2691 from the Blessed Mother October 29, 2004
My daughter, Peace will come when there is unity, unity amongst my children. It will take much prayer, fasting and sacrifice in order for love to be spread across this world. If my requests are obeyed, this world will change and there will be peace.
Without more prayer and repentance, a bloodier battle will unfold. I have been warning my children for some time now, yet so many refuse to accept my heavenly pleas. Sin is what causes destruction. Sin destroys the soul. Sin has become widespread and my children must wake up soon. Sin has added many wounds to Jesus’ Most Precious Body.
Each time an abortion is performed, Satan rejoices. Satan rejoices because abortion is the greatest sin in this world. Very few realize how many abortions are taking place around this world.
Bishops must make it known. They must speak the truth and take a stand for life. They must not ignore what is taking place around this world. Bishops must use their hands and voice for Christ. There is no longer time to be silent when so many souls are being destroyed.
Do not think that God will not punish this world. Believe that your time is running out to wake your flock. Believe that time is short and live, live these messages. This world will be severely punished if you continue to remain silent. All must obey God’s laws and it is your job to make the Commandments known.
Abortion breaks every Commandment, so why, why dear Bishops, are you not making this known? Every day you must pray for an end to abortion. Every day you must shepherd your flock.
Be more thankful for each new message. Be thankful that my time to be with you has not ended. When this time for me to be with you in such a personal way ends, you will not be reminded anymore. You will have but little time to prepare your flock.
You will each need to be strong, strong in your faith. Don’t wait for the earth to tremble more, for when God shakes this earth, it will be felt all around this world. Many are not living the Gospel, why, because many Bishops are not making it known.
This message is for the world, for each child has a soul. I am here to assist you. I am here because of God’s mercy and love. I am here, your Mother of Mercy, for the Gospel must be spread. Amen.
Comment posted January 12, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
The Catholic Church also says that contraception is equivalent to abortion which makes about three-quarters of American Catholics guilty of Baby-murder as well, or don’t you people believe in the moral teachings of your church?
If you don’t believe in abortion, don’t have one. And teach your children not to have them. My church says that abortion is NOT murder. Where’s my freedom of religion?
I notice at least half a dozen commenters above made not-so-thinly-veiled references about the priest at the center of this controversy as being Gay. What’s that got to do with the story? You’re just a bunch of vile, hate-filled bigots.
If you really believed in the sanctity of human life, you’d have worked for universal health care for children. If you really believed in the sanctity of human life, you’d make sure sex education was taught in schools because children who are taught about sex and much less likely to end up pregnant. If you really believed in the sanctity of human life, you’d be happy to work towards reducing the number of abortions.
As a native-American chief said in the 19th century to a bunch of Christians, go and live your life according to the teachings of your prophet. If it works for you, perhaps my people will be convinced by your example.
Comment posted January 13, 2009 @ 1:44 pm
Larry said: “God is all good he cannot do evil. God is love.” I’m curious as to what your sources are. I mean it’s not exactly the bible. There are all sorts of examples of God being jealous and killing people over it written in the bible. I don’t think jealousy is the definition of love. There’s much more examples but I will let you read your own bible for that. No cherry picking please.
Larry said: “A spontaneous abortion occurs when something is not right in the body.” So you don’t believe in Intelligent Design. That’s a relief
Larry said: “We are creatures and suffering occurs in this world. One thought that has been long articulated is that God permits suffering and evil to occur so that a greater good can come from it.” Yes, because being all powerful wouldn’t be fun if you actually had to use your abilities. /s
Larry said: “We may not understand God ways because he is far above our own feeble minds. We are creatures. He is God.” And yet you think you are worthy enough to assume and speak for God. Hm?
I have plenty of ex-Catholic friends. Guess why most got fed up and left the church. Because some guy who also thinks he’s some creature with enough worth to assume and speak for God decided to make a bunch of ridiculous rules that every man, woman and child should have to follow.
Larry said: “By the way, are you an athiest? [sic]” I think any one who thinks rationally can see the problems with your and other’s argument. So forgive me if I view most comments in this thread as a joke.
Comment posted January 14, 2009 @ 7:38 am
Hey B. Hanson, God speaks through His Church. I only attempt to articulate what I understand to be true. I don’t cherry pick. You have to read the entire Bible in context. What changed in the Bible is not God, but our relationship to Him when He became incarnate. It sounds like your “plenty of ex-Catholic friends” did not understand their faith to begin with otherwise they would not have been lead astray by the “other team.” I know you don’t understand and that is ok for now. I hope you live a long time so you will one day have an opportunity to see the Light.
No hard feelings Mr. Hanson and I wish you the best!!
Comment posted January 18, 2009 @ 12:19 pm
“the Freedom of Choice Act, known as FOCA, a reproductive health initiative”
Intellectually dishonest, counter intuitive drivel. Abortion is not reproduction, it is the termination of the reproductive process.
Comment posted January 23, 2009 @ 10:05 am
It saddens me so much, not to read this article, but to read these comments. Many of you have every right to stand up for your belief and the rights of the unborn, but the fact that you all are so blind in the way you follow “the church’s teachings” is quite freaky and cult-like.
Father Tegeder is a decent man who dedicates his life to helping others. He has done many wonderful things to those who need it. I bet none of you have ever met him or know him on a personal level, and it certainly seems like none of you have done your research on him outside of extremist Catholic blogs. And to say he is endangering his immortal soul and those of his parishioners is to be extremely cruel and very un-christian. The meaning of catholic is a unified church, a togetherness, and you are all supporting creating a more “pure” church which is entirely the opposite! Honestly, I think most of you are not capable of looking at this issue and ARTICLE in the big picture. Being “dissident” is a very creepy statement, because you are saying that nobody in the catholic church is allowed to consider the reasoning behind decisions or positions on tough issues, but to blindly follow. Since you are all throwing out the word Nazi everywhere, why don’t you think about how this applies to your own view of “dissident” members of the church. Who else blindly followed their leaders, and where did that take them?
I don’t agree with abortions, I wish they never had to happen. But the issue is so much more complicated than the Nazi Holocaust, and the comparison is unfair. Yes, the unborn don’t have voices to stand up for themselves. But we are also talking about another life – that of the mother, and if she has been raped by her brother and ends up pregnant, you want to force her to either a) carry a daily reminder of this in her womb, a VERY hard physical and mental thing to force a young woman to do or b) go through a dangerous, unregulated, and potentially fatal illegal abortion. The issue is that it is morally wrong to take a life, but it is also morally wrong to control a woman’s body. Making abortion illegal is saying the life of one is more important than the life of another. Is any of us capable to judge who is more deserving of life? If this woman gets an illegal abortion, should she be tried for murder?
As an aside, Father Tegeder is simply stating that this campaign is not the best use of the money of the Catholic Church. Nobody can oppose individual citizens writing to their senators or to the president regarding their views on this issue, and the Catholic Church has a right to encourage their parishioners to become involved in this. What Father Tegeder is saying is that not only is this campaign costly, but it also is meant to present the issue in an attacking manner, which isn’t Catholic at all, because it avoids talking about the issue in a realistic way and definitely would paint the Catholic Church as unwilling to accept and work with the change in our government.
Also, some of you say you don’t “cherry pick” from the Bible. Then of course, you are also aware that in the Bible, God kills thousands of Egyptian babies (or does that not count because they aren’t in a Christian nation) and also says that eating shellfish is a sin as bad as laying with a man, and that women should not braid their hair. I guess we should also set up a postcard campaign against Red Lobsters and hair-braiding salons everywhere. What better use of our money than say, charity to those who are already born and desperately need help.
Comment posted January 23, 2009 @ 10:14 am
to B. Hanson
Your statement #8 “That makes God the world’s biggest abortionist.” lacks theological cohesion. God is the Author of all life. He determines the number of our days, knowing the fullness of them before there is one. That 25% of fertilized eggs are spontaneously aborted (I’ll assume your statement correct)does not make God an abortionist. God is (like it or not) sovereign. If, in His wisdom, a fertized ovum does not survive to term is an act of His sovereignty does not make Him a murderer(that innocent life will be before Him and has not died to eternity with his Creator). Man is prohibited by God from murdering, from shedding innocent blood. God gathers all men through death to Himself for judgment – and God is not wicked because sinful men may bring that life to an end. He is a rewarder to the oppressed and victimized, and a just judge to the wicked and unjust. In none of this has He transgressed any moral code.
Comment posted January 23, 2009 @ 10:40 am
to “Katherine” who wrote “I suspect that the Archbishop is not fronting for the Republican Party but is just a sap who has been lured in by them. The whole phony anti-”FOCA” campaign was developed by conservatives who can’t get over the fact that Obama won the election. They are looking for a phony issue to attack him because they know they can’t beat him on the real issues of economic justice, fairness to workers, peace in the world, protection of the environment and compassion for the poor.”
Your statement is opinion only, and not factually supportable. FOCA would undermine every reasonable restriction (not prohibition) on abortion enacted by the various states since Roe V. Wade. These restrictions have doubtless saved great numbers of innocents from being slain in the womb while not prohibiting abortion. Opposition to this bill (which predates the Obama presidency)is to prevent these restrictions from being swept away. If the president is serious about wanting to minimize the number of abortions performed, he wouldn’t touch FOCA with a ten foot cattle prod.
His pre-election words spoke of moderation, reaching accross the aisle, and a new spirit of bipartisanship. Signing into law a vehicle that will carry millions more to death at the hands of abortionists is not the act of a moderator and bridge-builder.
When prolife people stand against FOCA is is not a shallow political maneuver, but a rightful response in behalf of the innocents who will be killed at his consent. We know that we, as well as President Obama, will one day stand before the One Who created these millions of murdered innocents. We will not stand by idly or bury our heads in the sand. For love of those innocents and love and respect for our mutual Creator, we dare not give silent assent to their destruction.
Pray for the President! One day he will stand before the living God and face the truth of Jesus’ words:
“Matt 25:41-45
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ NIV
In failing to protect these innocents from slaughter and in furthering same, President Obama invites judgement on himself, and, as duely elected leader of this nation, on the United States of America.
It is time for national repentence, ceaseless prayer, and sobriety.
It is written that the Lord can change the heart of the king as the course of a river. Let us then urgently pray for a change of heart of the President and that God gives him abundant wisdom in all his decisions.
Comment posted January 23, 2009 @ 11:05 am
to Megan, who wrote:
“I don’t agree with abortions, I wish they never had to happen. But the issue is so much more complicated than the Nazi Holocaust, and the comparison is unfair. Yes, the unborn don’t have voices to stand up for themselves. But we are also talking about another life – that of the mother, and if she has been raped by her brother and ends up pregnant, you want to force her to either a) carry a daily reminder of this in her womb, a VERY hard physical and mental thing to force a young woman to do or b) go through a dangerous, unregulated, and potentially fatal illegal abortion. The issue is that it is morally wrong to take a life, but it is also morally wrong to control a woman’s body. Making abortion illegal is saying the life of one is more important than the life of another. Is any of us capable to judge who is more deserving of life? If this woman gets an illegal abortion, should she be tried for murder?”
While you cite an extreme case (abortions due to rape or incest are only a few percent of abortions at best – overwhelmingly abortions are elective and not done to pretct the lfiee of the mother). Are you saying that you would support legislation that would restrict abortion except for cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother?
You ask if we are judging who is more deserving of life. Your question is not well framed. We are stating that BOTH lives are deserving of protection. You state that it is morally wrong to control a woman’s body. It is not morally wrong if that “control”
(preventing the destruction of her unborn child) protects another.
And, at worst, such “control” endures for only 1-8 months of time when the child might be embraced by her or others (adoption). But the “control” of abortion ends the innocent life of the unborn (not part of her body but reisent within it as a separate human being). Which “control” is more coercive and which impact more enduring and violative of another?
Comment posted January 23, 2009 @ 12:24 pm
“If, in His wisdom, a fertized ovum does not survive to term is an act of His sovereignty does not make Him a murderer(that innocent life will be before Him and has not died to eternity with his Creator).”
“You ask if we are judging who is more deserving of life. Your question is not well framed. We are stating that BOTH lives are deserving of protection. You state that it is morally wrong to control a woman’s body. It is not morally wrong if that “control”
(preventing the destruction of her unborn child) protects another.”
Your first sentence states that if abortion happens via stillborn or miscarriage (which is something that happens often) it’s okay.
Your second sentence states that you have to CONTROL the WOMAN to prevent an abortion via medically (which is something that with proper education and birth control is very rare) and it’s okay.
See this is what really gets me. You seem to be all for controlling and inconveniencing and allowing another life to suffer emotionally( yes, suffer. Emotionally. From being forced to do something they don’t want to), physically and painfully for a POTENTIAL life.
Some men and women have a problem with that.
Comment posted January 23, 2009 @ 2:38 pm
to Bhanson who wrote:
“Your first sentence states that if abortion happens via stillborn or miscarriage (which is something that happens often) it’s okay.
Your second sentence states that you have to CONTROL the WOMAN to prevent an abortion via medically (which is something that with proper education and birth control is very rare) and it’s okay.
See this is what really gets me. You seem to be all for controlling and inconveniencing and allowing another life to suffer emotionally( yes, suffer. Emotionally. From being forced to do something they don’t want to), physically and painfully for a POTENTIAL life.”
The fertilized egg not implanting successfully is not the deliberate destruction of human life by man. I’m not lauding it, but it happens of its own accord without man’s intervention.
Actually, I used the word “control” in quotes to indicate that that was the term you used in your post. But it is a waste of time to debate if there is any “control” involved. It is the very nature of law to control behaviors to some extent.
When weighing in the balance “emotional suffering” vice the physical death of an unborn child, I would say the value of the life is superior to the emotional suffering. That is not to devalue that suffering which may be minimal or great. But it is not a cause above the life of the innocent human being who would be destroyed.
You say that with proper education and birth control abortion is very rare. Estimates are between 45-50,000,000 dead innocent unborn due to abortion in the US alone since Roe V. Wade (1973). That is not rare – it amounts to 14-1500 killed by abortion every single day.
You did not answer which was more an act of “control” over another.
My question is repeated herein: “You state that it is morally wrong to control a woman’s body. It is not morally wrong if that “control”
(preventing the destruction of her unborn child) protects another.
And, at worst, such “control” endures for only 1-8 months of time when the child might be embraced by her or others (adoption). But the “control” of abortion ends the innocent life of the unborn (not part of her body but resident within it as a separate human being). Which “control” is more coercive and which impact more enduring and violative of another?” Could you please give you opinion on which “control” is of greater magnitude?
“You seem to be all for controlling and inconveniencing and allowing another life to suffer emotionally( yes, suffer. Emotionally. From being forced to do something they don’t want to), physically and painfully for a POTENTIAL life.”
I do not consider the emotional suffering of carrying a child conceived by an adult engaging in the sexual act (the reproductive act of sexual intercourse). This is a natural and to be expected (even if not desired)consequence of having sex. I don’t believe that “I don’t want to be pregnant now” sufficient justification for the destruction of an innocent unborn child.
“Potential life” – The unborn child in the mother’s womb is doubtless human, with DNA distinctly its own and different from its mother (therefore not part of the mother’s body). The body of the child is growing with cells multiplying geometrically. The heart is beating and functioning before most women even know they’re pregnant. Logically and biologically it is distinct from its mother,
human (the product of human reproduction is definitionally human), and alive. It is a live human being whose potential increases throughout its life if not destroyed. It’s not potential life, it’s undeniably human life with incredible potential known only to it’s Creator.
It is wisdom to consider that God is doing the creative work and it is not accomplished without Him. If He is working out His plan for that life and all the lives that will touched by that life, who are we to then consider someone’s desire to kill an innocent superior to His to bless that one and so many others?
My late wife had an abortion at 18 years of age. We married when she was 27. For 10.5 years we were childless. She was haunted by that child’s death and through all those years when we were trying to conceive; she regretted with great sorrow that she killed that child. Her suffering was very real, and to a lesser measure, as her husband, I suffered with her. But she confessed that sin before the Lord, and she was forgiven. Now she’s in eternity and reunited with her child. I wasn’t the father, but know I too will get to know him (or her).
Abortion destroys an innocent human being created by God in the image and likeness of God. He has a problem with that. So do many men and women.
Comment posted March 5, 2009 @ 8:25 pm
There is obviously a lot to know about this. I think you made some good points in Features also.
Comment posted March 17, 2009 @ 10:59 pm
Michael Tegeder sounds like a priest who cleaves to the words and lessons of Jesus, instead of the misogynist political agenda of the Roman Catholic Church (which itself didn’t ban abortion before quickening–around the fifth month of pregnancy–until 1869).
There’s a lot of rage against women in the comments on this story, explicit and implicit. There doesn’t seem to be much actual sympathy for human life except for from Michael Tegeder himself.
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