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	<title>Comments on: What a riot: Outside panel presents mild critique of RNC policing</title>
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		<title>By: ken brown</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23441</link>
		<dc:creator>ken brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23441</guid>
		<description>i live out-of-state but,by God,i&#039;m still an American.i watched,what coverage was made available,not much, but enough to recognize a fiasco.if this sorry display of fascism is the rnc&#039;s version of America,then we have a serious enemy of truth,justice,and the American way!don&#039;t let them get away with it folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i live out-of-state but,by God,i&#8217;m still an American.i watched,what coverage was made available,not much, but enough to recognize a fiasco.if this sorry display of fascism is the rnc&#8217;s version of America,then we have a serious enemy of truth,justice,and the American way!don&#8217;t let them get away with it folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23148</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23148</guid>
		<description>Whatever.  If a cop manages to successfully flush a toilet, people are impressed and get a hard-on for their professionalism.  Yeah, a good number of cops did show restraint during the RNC, as much as they could at least, when their orders appeared to be arrest everyone in sight regardless of actual crimes.  There were also a good number of stupid thug cops I had the pleasure of dealing with during the four days of the RNC.  Not surprising given the character of the Ramsey County Sheriff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever.  If a cop manages to successfully flush a toilet, people are impressed and get a hard-on for their professionalism.  Yeah, a good number of cops did show restraint during the RNC, as much as they could at least, when their orders appeared to be arrest everyone in sight regardless of actual crimes.  There were also a good number of stupid thug cops I had the pleasure of dealing with during the four days of the RNC.  Not surprising given the character of the Ramsey County Sheriff.</p>
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		<title>By: Nachman</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23140</link>
		<dc:creator>Nachman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23140</guid>
		<description>I was specifically writing about the RNC riots. 

Your argument, then, is what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was specifically writing about the RNC riots. </p>
<p>Your argument, then, is what?</p>
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		<title>By: Mendel</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23120</link>
		<dc:creator>Mendel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23120</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; I am a former police officer, and I observed what happened in St. Paul. The police acted with restraint and professionalism. Riot control has become an art. &lt;&lt;

State-of-the-art, from the Boston Globe, October 22, 2004:
An Emerson College junior, drawn to Fenway Park to toast the first Red Sox pennant in 18 years, was killed yesterday, shot in the eye by a projectile fired by police seeking to disperse revelers who authorities said threatened to spin out of control.
Victoria Snelgrove, a 21-year-old journalism student from East Bridgewater, was struck by a pepper-spray-filled plastic ball at about 1:30 a.m., some 90 minutes after the Red Sox celebrated on the infield at Yankee Stadium, provoking an estimated 80,000 jubilant and mostly young fans to converge on Kenmore Square.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; I am a former police officer, and I observed what happened in St. Paul. The police acted with restraint and professionalism. Riot control has become an art. &lt;&lt;</p>
<p>State-of-the-art, from the Boston Globe, October 22, 2004:<br />
An Emerson College junior, drawn to Fenway Park to toast the first Red Sox pennant in 18 years, was killed yesterday, shot in the eye by a projectile fired by police seeking to disperse revelers who authorities said threatened to spin out of control.<br />
Victoria Snelgrove, a 21-year-old journalism student from East Bridgewater, was struck by a pepper-spray-filled plastic ball at about 1:30 a.m., some 90 minutes after the Red Sox celebrated on the infield at Yankee Stadium, provoking an estimated 80,000 jubilant and mostly young fans to converge on Kenmore Square.</p>
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		<title>By: Nachman</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23105</link>
		<dc:creator>Nachman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23105</guid>
		<description>&quot;However, what Ann G., who was there, is asserting is that the police cracked down with excessive force on persons who were merely protesting and who were NOT engaging in improper interference, terroristic threats, or acts of violence&quot;.

I am a former police officer, and I observed what happened in St. Paul. The police acted with restraint and professionalism. Riot control has become an art. 

Your compatriots were *very* lucky to have had Minnesota law enforcement, and not have cops the way my department was trained for riot control. It would have been a phalanx of police in a flying v formation and nightsticks. The outcome would have been very different, with you on the losing end.

I was *very* impressed with Minnesota law enforcement. FWIW, you step into a war zone, expect to eat tear gas and get your head knocked in. That&#039;s what riots are.

Tell those brave revolutionaries to stop whining and man up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, what Ann G., who was there, is asserting is that the police cracked down with excessive force on persons who were merely protesting and who were NOT engaging in improper interference, terroristic threats, or acts of violence&#8221;.</p>
<p>I am a former police officer, and I observed what happened in St. Paul. The police acted with restraint and professionalism. Riot control has become an art. </p>
<p>Your compatriots were *very* lucky to have had Minnesota law enforcement, and not have cops the way my department was trained for riot control. It would have been a phalanx of police in a flying v formation and nightsticks. The outcome would have been very different, with you on the losing end.</p>
<p>I was *very* impressed with Minnesota law enforcement. FWIW, you step into a war zone, expect to eat tear gas and get your head knocked in. That&#8217;s what riots are.</p>
<p>Tell those brave revolutionaries to stop whining and man up.</p>
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		<title>By: DanC</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23084</link>
		<dc:creator>DanC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23084</guid>
		<description>I guess I don&#039;t understand what constitutes &quot;free speech&quot;.  As I have read people we arrested for doing nothing other than attending a gathering of people.  There was noting that they did, it was only that they were there.  Then, for those who did shout, speak, demonstrate carry signs, and gesture - why isn&#039;t that &quot;free speech.&quot;  If they are not entitled to do that, then why are those inside the RNC convention entitled to do what they do?  Isn&#039;t what&#039;s good for the goose is also OK for the gander?  Or is the RNC waging its own class warfare by oppressing &quot;free speech of the masses?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I don&#8217;t understand what constitutes &#8220;free speech&#8221;.  As I have read people we arrested for doing nothing other than attending a gathering of people.  There was noting that they did, it was only that they were there.  Then, for those who did shout, speak, demonstrate carry signs, and gesture &#8211; why isn&#8217;t that &#8220;free speech.&#8221;  If they are not entitled to do that, then why are those inside the RNC convention entitled to do what they do?  Isn&#8217;t what&#8217;s good for the goose is also OK for the gander?  Or is the RNC waging its own class warfare by oppressing &#8220;free speech of the masses?</p>
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		<title>By: icecycle</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23080</link>
		<dc:creator>icecycle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23080</guid>
		<description>Although many of the knuckleheads that showed up didn&#039;t need any help making asses of themselves, I agree with the reports finding of fault with the city&#039;s &quot;leadership&quot; (you&#039;ll have to download your own copy to follow me since Mr. Demko failed to provide any mention of anything not pointing fingers at the police).

City councilman Dave Thune, during several pre-convention public meetings, clearly gave protesters the impression that they would be free to do as they chose. 

Keeping in mind the limited comprehension skills of many of the players, Thune had the responsibility to make it clear that when he said the whole city was a &quot;free speech zone&quot;, that didn&#039;t mean protesters would be allowed to throw human waste and chemicals at visitors, nor does throwing signs and sand bags onto busses from overpasses constitute &quot;free speech&quot;.

Thune knows these people well, he&#039;s one of them. But he was also privy to the knowledge that the RNC would not be declared a free for all zone. 

I understand why our local domestic terrorists feel betrayed; and I can well imagine that by the time they are released from prison, they&#039;re going to be downright peeved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although many of the knuckleheads that showed up didn&#8217;t need any help making asses of themselves, I agree with the reports finding of fault with the city&#8217;s &#8220;leadership&#8221; (you&#8217;ll have to download your own copy to follow me since Mr. Demko failed to provide any mention of anything not pointing fingers at the police).</p>
<p>City councilman Dave Thune, during several pre-convention public meetings, clearly gave protesters the impression that they would be free to do as they chose. </p>
<p>Keeping in mind the limited comprehension skills of many of the players, Thune had the responsibility to make it clear that when he said the whole city was a &#8220;free speech zone&#8221;, that didn&#8217;t mean protesters would be allowed to throw human waste and chemicals at visitors, nor does throwing signs and sand bags onto busses from overpasses constitute &#8220;free speech&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thune knows these people well, he&#8217;s one of them. But he was also privy to the knowledge that the RNC would not be declared a free for all zone. </p>
<p>I understand why our local domestic terrorists feel betrayed; and I can well imagine that by the time they are released from prison, they&#8217;re going to be downright peeved.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim from Chicago</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23075</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim from Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23075</guid>
		<description>Nachman,

I think you&#039;re missing the point of Ann G&#039;s comments.

Of course, Republicans should be able to assert their political rights without interference (assuming you are not defining &quot;interference&quot; to mean any and all dissent or protest), terroristic threats, or acts of violence.

However, what Ann G., who was there, is asserting is that the police cracked down with excessive force on persons who were merely protesting and who were NOT engaging in improper interference, terroristic threats, or acts of violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nachman,</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re missing the point of Ann G&#8217;s comments.</p>
<p>Of course, Republicans should be able to assert their political rights without interference (assuming you are not defining &#8220;interference&#8221; to mean any and all dissent or protest), terroristic threats, or acts of violence.</p>
<p>However, what Ann G., who was there, is asserting is that the police cracked down with excessive force on persons who were merely protesting and who were NOT engaging in improper interference, terroristic threats, or acts of violence.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Schmelzer</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23074</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Schmelzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23074</guid>
		<description>The first paragraph is factual, Sue Ann, not editorialized. As for our coverage, I suggest you go back to the on-the-ground reportage we provided during and following the convention. &lt;a href=&quot;http://minnesotaindependent.com/20657/mnindys-best-the-10-most-popular-stories-of-2008&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A few of our most-read pieces are here&lt;/a&gt;, but you can also &lt;a href=&quot;http://minnesotaindependent.com/category/rnc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;follow our RNC tags&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first paragraph is factual, Sue Ann, not editorialized. As for our coverage, I suggest you go back to the on-the-ground reportage we provided during and following the convention. <a href="http://minnesotaindependent.com/20657/mnindys-best-the-10-most-popular-stories-of-2008" rel="nofollow">A few of our most-read pieces are here</a>, but you can also <a href="http://minnesotaindependent.com/category/rnc" rel="nofollow">follow our RNC tags</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Ann</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23292/what-a-riot-outside-panel-presents-mild-critique-of-rnc-policing/comment-page-1#comment-23071</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23292#comment-23071</guid>
		<description>Certainly I agree with the comments, but I find the Independent&#039;s coverage disturbing.

This article is as bad as any mainstream media article in its presentation in the first paragraph of the demonstrators as violent--the broken window is now like a broken record, and the tire-slashing--
two incidents where thousands of nonviolent demonstrators tried to exercise their civil liberties and rights.

The article itself is not much better--it makes the people who packed the courtroom sound irresponsible.  Maybe they were in the great American tradition of &quot;throw the bum out,&quot; but the threat to our civil liberties is serious, and they know that.

And since all those demonstrators were there, why not interview some of them and make this a balanced article.

In other words, this coverage is business as usual.  It&#039;s all I would expect from the mainstream press.  But from the Independent I expect more.

Sue Ann Martinson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly I agree with the comments, but I find the Independent&#8217;s coverage disturbing.</p>
<p>This article is as bad as any mainstream media article in its presentation in the first paragraph of the demonstrators as violent&#8211;the broken window is now like a broken record, and the tire-slashing&#8211;<br />
two incidents where thousands of nonviolent demonstrators tried to exercise their civil liberties and rights.</p>
<p>The article itself is not much better&#8211;it makes the people who packed the courtroom sound irresponsible.  Maybe they were in the great American tradition of &#8220;throw the bum out,&#8221; but the threat to our civil liberties is serious, and they know that.</p>
<p>And since all those demonstrators were there, why not interview some of them and make this a balanced article.</p>
<p>In other words, this coverage is business as usual.  It&#8217;s all I would expect from the mainstream press.  But from the Independent I expect more.</p>
<p>Sue Ann Martinson</p>
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