Warren dares to say ‘Jesus,’ next to nada about love that dares not speak its name

I don’t think many people are picking up on the slight difference in the way Warren phrased his use of “Jesus” — he said “I humbly ask this in the name of … .” This is different than the “We pray this …” that Franklin Graham used. Graham’s is the phrasing you would use when in church, as you would assume all those would agree with you. The “I” makes Warren’s his own petition, and I would not deny him that — that is the way Jesus said his followers are supposed to present their petitions to God if they want them to be effective (from verses like John 15:16
– “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”). If they didn’t ask in Jesus name, there might be some question about how sincere they really were in their prayer.

Caldwell also used “Jesus” as a personal petition in 2005, being even more inclusive with his preface: “Respecting persons of all faiths, I humbly submit this prayer in the name of Jesus Christ.”

With this in mind, though, I’m not sure why Billy Graham didn’t say Jesus. Perhaps there’s a longer tradition to that effect that he chose to follow.

You know what gets me. The intoloerance of the people against Rev. Warren. The want him to be tolerant of them and the gay marriage issue but at the same time they are intolerant because he is against them. I thought this country was great because we all have a right to voice our opinion. But that is what this country is coming to. It’s O.K. to voice your opinion as long as you agree with them. If you do not, then you face scorn and hostility. I served my country during Desert Storm with pride. The pride I had was that I was defending the right for the opinions of Rev. Warren and the Gay and Lesbian Association. EVERYONE has the right to their opinion. And as long as there are no laws being broken, hateful speech and violence, then EVERYONE should R-E-S-P-E-C-T each others’opinions even if you disagree with their views.

This was intended to be an ecumenical prayer to include all beliefs and opinions about religion, all the way from Christian conservatives to … other Christian conservatives.

I really hoped that Obama would pick someone who had greater gravitas to deliver the invocation, Desmond Tutu maybe? I was really disappointed with Warren, how about those of us who love our country, but, are not believer in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim tradidition. How about the first americans? how about Buddhists? How about those of us who live in the traditions of western humanism? The use of the Lord’s Prayer was particularly offensive to me, it is a great profession of faith if you are a Christian, but, the event is a celebration of our secular political tradition, not, a sacred anoiting of a new king. I thought the Rev. Lowery’s benediction was great, and, much more in keeping with the spirit of the occasion.

Well, yeah; how dare that Warren suggest, in an invocation, that people who disagree should do so respectfully? That was clearly not just a snub of GLBT people, who are obviously unable to do so, but an attack on Kelly Jean Cogswell, personally; you just gotta know he was thinking about her.

… whoever she is, that is.

…..When we fail to treat our fellow human beings and all the Earth with the respect that they deserve, forgive us…..

I would have preferred, “When we fail to treat our fellow human beings and all the Earth with the utmost respect, forgive us.”

What is “….the respect that they deserve….”?

DH,
There is a big difference between “voicing your opinion”, and advocating that a specific group of people should have their rights squashed and their very humanity questioned.

Yes, DH, you have the great right to speak your mind, but that does not mean you deserve an historic platform to speak those ideas.

We would never give a national platform to someone who believed that blacks, women, or Jews were somehow “lesser” children of God, and that is exactly what Warren believes about Gays. He believes they are inherently flawed and wrong.

So, yes, DH, you can believe and say whatever you like, but when what you say is hurtful and abhorrent to the American ideal of equality, why should you be given the platform to say it? You can be a racist, homophobe, xenophobe or whatever, but if you express those ideas in public I will express my opposing view.

No one ever said Warren couldn’t say whatever he likes. We just don’t think his oppressive views should be given a national stage, just like we wouldn’t give a national stage to other bigots.

Reverend Warren can believe whatever he wants, but the second he tries to limit other people’s rights, then he crosses the line. He doesn’t want to marry a man, that is fabulous for him. He doesn’t want to perform a ceremony for gays in his church. Outstanding. He wants to stop people he doesn’t even know from getting married, that is what is un-American and horrible.

By the way, I served in Baghdad for a year fighting for the rights of all Americans, including homosexuals.
Take care,
Alec

We would never give a national platform to someone who believed that blacks, women, or Jews were somehow “lesser” children of God…

Whew. And here I was, thinking that His Obamaness had invited Mattson to speak at the National Prayer Breakfast. Thank Ghu that –

Oops. Turns out I was right. Oh, well; us sons of monkey and pigs will, somehow, manage to bear up under the strain.

Wow Joel, he invited a Muslim, a Hindu, and jew to the prayer breakfast. How threatened you must feel. The prayer breakfast is also not so much te national scene as the inauguration.

Let me try and break this down. We all have some prejudices. There is nothing we can really do to change that. Having prejudices makes someone human and not evil or bad. Rev. Warrens prejudices against gays do not make him a bad person.

When his prejudices lead to discrimination, that is what makes it wrong. We don’t like the prejudice in him, just like we don’t like the prejudices in ourselves. But the prejudice ideas, thoughts, and words are NOT the problem we are fighting against. It is the outright discrimination that is intolerable.

My church would love to be able to marry to loving, committed, consenting adults. But people like Warren want to prevent that! That is the problem. Don’t try and make this a free speech issue. It is is cut and dry a discrimination issue.

Take care,
Alec

Well, yeah; it’s a discrimination issue. Warren — like Obama — is opposed to same sex marriage. Also like Obama, he claims to be a believing Christian.

And so, because you are in favor of SSM, Warren should not have been invited to give the invocation at the coron — the inauguration, because somebody who holds differing views from you should be discriminated against.

Got it.

Joel,
It is not the man’s differing views, it is his actions. His view is that two men or two women should not marry. His actions are to codify that belief for everyone. Again, it is not his beliefs that are the concern, it is his discriminatory actions. So, yes, I think we should not give people who actively discriminate a stage. Again, Joel, it is not his views that are the problem, it is his need to push them on everyone else. My church should be able to marry two loving adults, and he should not be able to interfere with that.
Take care,
Alec

Well, I love Bible. I enjoy the blief in thepro Bible. We had thought it is impossible for others to refer to LGBT when they talked about Bible. That is most of my honest bisexual friend met at Bimingle.com who are also christians. It’s great to have such a discussion. I would like to hear it clear soon with the firm belief in my hearts. Hope it can be a success.

Yup; his view is that two men or two women — or two women and one man, or three men and four women — should not marry. Got it. But, no, his actions aren’t to codify that belief for everyone, even though that belief is the majority one; while polygamy isn’t new, SSM is, and it’s only in effect in a few places, after all, and keeps losing, every time it’s put to an electoral test.

Now, you want to push your belief — that SSM should be acknowledged by the state — on everybody else, and somebody who holds a differing view should have been barred from giving the invocation at the inauguration of a president . . .

. . . who, himself, opposes SSM.

Pretty damn intolerant of you.

Oh, and Alec? Your church can perform whatever ceremonies it wants, this side of human sacrifice; whether or not the legal import of those is binding on other folks is another matter.

Which is as it should be.

And just for funzies, and to save you the trouble, Alec: I’m in favor of state recognition of SSM — and, for that matter, poly relationships — between consenting adults. I don’t really think it’s the state’s business whether or not the two — or three, or twenty-three — people love each other, any more than I think that the state should be dropping their pants to see if and where their genitals fit in each others’; I think those people who need the state’s imprimateur on their affections have problems that won’t be solved by the state’s imprimateur on their affections.

But that’s a public policy argument, and in a free country, when you do win public policy arguments by shouting down the opposition, you lose more than you win.

But, mostly, you don’t win them at all.

The gay lifestyle is always going to be a wrong way to live for many reasons by a large majority of Americans because it’s true. And I’m sorry, but the truth hurts. That’s the way it is with truth. You can push your GLBT views, but it doesn’t change trurth. Really, I’m not being hateful, but truthful. Even if yiu get the law changed so you can marry, you’re still not really married, you’re just leagelly pretenting. Believe it or not I’m the one who loves you because I’m willing to tell you the truth while others want to be liked tell you lies that will hurt you more in the long run. I pray your ears and heart will be open to words of truth. The truth is the only thing that will set you free!