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	<title>Comments on: Warren dares to say &#8216;Jesus,&#8217; next to nada about love that dares not speak its name</title>
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	<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name</link>
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		<title>By: Dan Hall</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-24271</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 03:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-24271</guid>
		<description>The gay lifestyle is always going to be a wrong way to live for many reasons by a large majority of Americans because it&#039;s true. And I&#039;m sorry, but the truth hurts. That&#039;s the way it is with truth.  You can push your GLBT views, but it doesn&#039;t change trurth. Really, I&#039;m not being hateful, but truthful. Even if yiu get the law changed so you can marry, you&#039;re still not really married, you&#039;re just leagelly pretenting. Believe it or not I&#039;m the one who loves you because I&#039;m willing to tell you the truth while others want to be liked tell you lies that will hurt you more in the long run. I pray your ears and heart will be open to words of truth. The truth is the only thing that will set you free!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The gay lifestyle is always going to be a wrong way to live for many reasons by a large majority of Americans because it&#8217;s true. And I&#8217;m sorry, but the truth hurts. That&#8217;s the way it is with truth.  You can push your GLBT views, but it doesn&#8217;t change trurth. Really, I&#8217;m not being hateful, but truthful. Even if yiu get the law changed so you can marry, you&#8217;re still not really married, you&#8217;re just leagelly pretenting. Believe it or not I&#8217;m the one who loves you because I&#8217;m willing to tell you the truth while others want to be liked tell you lies that will hurt you more in the long run. I pray your ears and heart will be open to words of truth. The truth is the only thing that will set you free!</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23542</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23542</guid>
		<description>And just for funzies, and to save you the trouble, Alec:  I&#039;m in favor of state recognition of SSM -- and, for that matter, poly relationships -- between consenting adults.  I don&#039;t really think it&#039;s the state&#039;s business whether or not the two -- or three, or twenty-three -- people love each other, any more than I think that the state should be dropping their pants to see if and where their genitals fit in each others&#039;; I think those people who need the state&#039;s imprimateur on their affections have problems that won&#039;t be solved by the state&#039;s imprimateur on their affections.

But that&#039;s a public policy argument, and in a free country, when you do win public policy arguments by shouting down the opposition, you lose more than you win. 

But, mostly, you don&#039;t win them at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And just for funzies, and to save you the trouble, Alec:  I&#8217;m in favor of state recognition of SSM &#8212; and, for that matter, poly relationships &#8212; between consenting adults.  I don&#8217;t really think it&#8217;s the state&#8217;s business whether or not the two &#8212; or three, or twenty-three &#8212; people love each other, any more than I think that the state should be dropping their pants to see if and where their genitals fit in each others&#8217;; I think those people who need the state&#8217;s imprimateur on their affections have problems that won&#8217;t be solved by the state&#8217;s imprimateur on their affections.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s a public policy argument, and in a free country, when you do win public policy arguments by shouting down the opposition, you lose more than you win. </p>
<p>But, mostly, you don&#8217;t win them at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23526</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23526</guid>
		<description>Oh, and Alec?  Your church can perform whatever ceremonies it wants, this side of human sacrifice; whether or not the legal import of those is binding on other folks is another matter. 

Which is as it should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Alec?  Your church can perform whatever ceremonies it wants, this side of human sacrifice; whether or not the legal import of those is binding on other folks is another matter. </p>
<p>Which is as it should be.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23519</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23519</guid>
		<description>Yup; his view is that two men or two women -- or two women and one man, or three men and four women -- should not marry.  Got it.  But, no, his actions aren&#039;t to codify that belief for everyone, even though that belief is the majority one; while polygamy isn&#039;t new, SSM is, and it&#039;s only in effect in a few places, after all, and keeps losing, every time it&#039;s put to an electoral test.  

Now, you want to push your belief -- that SSM should be acknowledged by the state -- on everybody else, and somebody who holds a differing view should have been barred from giving the invocation at the inauguration of a president . . . 

. . . who, himself, opposes SSM. 

Pretty damn intolerant of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup; his view is that two men or two women &#8212; or two women and one man, or three men and four women &#8212; should not marry.  Got it.  But, no, his actions aren&#8217;t to codify that belief for everyone, even though that belief is the majority one; while polygamy isn&#8217;t new, SSM is, and it&#8217;s only in effect in a few places, after all, and keeps losing, every time it&#8217;s put to an electoral test.  </p>
<p>Now, you want to push your belief &#8212; that SSM should be acknowledged by the state &#8212; on everybody else, and somebody who holds a differing view should have been barred from giving the invocation at the inauguration of a president . . . </p>
<p>. . . who, himself, opposes SSM. </p>
<p>Pretty damn intolerant of you.</p>
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		<title>By: vanicei7</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23496</link>
		<dc:creator>vanicei7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23496</guid>
		<description>Well, I love Bible. I enjoy the blief in thepro Bible. We had thought it is impossible for others to refer to LGBT when they talked about Bible. That is most of my honest bisexual friend met at Bimingle.com who are also christians. It&#039;s great to have such a discussion. I would like to hear it clear soon with the firm belief in my hearts. Hope it can be a success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I love Bible. I enjoy the blief in thepro Bible. We had thought it is impossible for others to refer to LGBT when they talked about Bible. That is most of my honest bisexual friend met at Bimingle.com who are also christians. It&#8217;s great to have such a discussion. I would like to hear it clear soon with the firm belief in my hearts. Hope it can be a success.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23490</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23490</guid>
		<description>Joel,
   It is not the man&#039;s differing views, it is his actions. His view is that two men or two women should not marry. His actions are to codify that belief for everyone. Again, it is not his beliefs that are the concern, it is his discriminatory actions. So, yes, I think we should not give people who actively discriminate a stage. Again, Joel, it is not his views that are the problem, it is his need to push them on everyone else. My church should be able to marry two loving adults, and he should not be able to interfere with that.
Take care,
Alec</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel,<br />
   It is not the man&#8217;s differing views, it is his actions. His view is that two men or two women should not marry. His actions are to codify that belief for everyone. Again, it is not his beliefs that are the concern, it is his discriminatory actions. So, yes, I think we should not give people who actively discriminate a stage. Again, Joel, it is not his views that are the problem, it is his need to push them on everyone else. My church should be able to marry two loving adults, and he should not be able to interfere with that.<br />
Take care,<br />
Alec</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23476</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23476</guid>
		<description>Well, yeah; it&#039;s a discrimination issue.  Warren -- like Obama -- is opposed to same sex marriage. Also like Obama, he claims to be a believing Christian.  

And so, because you are in favor of SSM, Warren should not have been invited to give the invocation at the coron -- the inauguration, because somebody who holds differing views from you should be discriminated against. 

Got it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yeah; it&#8217;s a discrimination issue.  Warren &#8212; like Obama &#8212; is opposed to same sex marriage. Also like Obama, he claims to be a believing Christian.  </p>
<p>And so, because you are in favor of SSM, Warren should not have been invited to give the invocation at the coron &#8212; the inauguration, because somebody who holds differing views from you should be discriminated against. </p>
<p>Got it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23475</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23475</guid>
		<description>Wow Joel, he invited a Muslim, a Hindu, and  jew to the prayer breakfast. How threatened you must feel. The prayer breakfast is also not so much te national scene as the inauguration. 

Let me try and break this down. We all have some prejudices. There is nothing we can really do to change that. Having prejudices makes someone human and not evil or bad. Rev. Warrens prejudices against gays do not make him a bad person. 

When his prejudices lead to discrimination, that is what makes it wrong. We don&#039;t like the prejudice in him, just like we don&#039;t like the prejudices in ourselves. But the prejudice ideas, thoughts, and words are NOT the problem we are fighting against. It is the outright discrimination that is intolerable.

My church would love to be able to marry to loving, committed, consenting adults. But people like Warren want to prevent that! That is the problem. Don&#039;t try and make this a free speech issue. It is is cut and dry a discrimination issue.

Take care,
Alec</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Joel, he invited a Muslim, a Hindu, and  jew to the prayer breakfast. How threatened you must feel. The prayer breakfast is also not so much te national scene as the inauguration. </p>
<p>Let me try and break this down. We all have some prejudices. There is nothing we can really do to change that. Having prejudices makes someone human and not evil or bad. Rev. Warrens prejudices against gays do not make him a bad person. </p>
<p>When his prejudices lead to discrimination, that is what makes it wrong. We don&#8217;t like the prejudice in him, just like we don&#8217;t like the prejudices in ourselves. But the prejudice ideas, thoughts, and words are NOT the problem we are fighting against. It is the outright discrimination that is intolerable.</p>
<p>My church would love to be able to marry to loving, committed, consenting adults. But people like Warren want to prevent that! That is the problem. Don&#8217;t try and make this a free speech issue. It is is cut and dry a discrimination issue.</p>
<p>Take care,<br />
Alec</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Rosenberg</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23467</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Rosenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23467</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We would never give a national platform to someone who believed that blacks, women, or Jews were somehow “lesser” children of God...&lt;/i&gt;

Whew.  And here I was, thinking that His Obamaness had invited Mattson to speak at the National Prayer Breakfast.  Thank Ghu that --

Oops.  Turns out I was right. Oh, well; us sons of monkey and pigs will, somehow, manage to bear up under the strain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We would never give a national platform to someone who believed that blacks, women, or Jews were somehow “lesser” children of God&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Whew.  And here I was, thinking that His Obamaness had invited Mattson to speak at the National Prayer Breakfast.  Thank Ghu that &#8211;</p>
<p>Oops.  Turns out I was right. Oh, well; us sons of monkey and pigs will, somehow, manage to bear up under the strain.</p>
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		<title>By: Alec</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/23837/warren-says-jesus-nada-about-love-that-dares-not-speak-its-name/comment-page-1#comment-23457</link>
		<dc:creator>Alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnesotaindependent.com/?p=23837#comment-23457</guid>
		<description>DH,
   There is a big difference between &quot;voicing your opinion&quot;, and advocating that a specific group of people should have their rights squashed and their very humanity questioned.

Yes, DH, you have the great right to speak your mind, but that does not mean you deserve an historic platform to speak those ideas. 

We would never give a national platform to someone who believed that blacks, women, or Jews were somehow &quot;lesser&quot; children of God, and that is exactly what Warren believes about Gays. He believes they are inherently flawed and wrong.

So, yes, DH, you can believe and say whatever you like, but when what you say is hurtful and abhorrent to the American ideal of equality, why should you be given the platform to say it? You can be a racist, homophobe, xenophobe or whatever, but if you express those ideas in public I will express my opposing view.

No one ever said Warren couldn&#039;t say whatever he likes. We just don&#039;t think his oppressive views should be given a national stage, just like we wouldn&#039;t give a national stage to other bigots. 

Reverend Warren can believe whatever he wants, but the second he tries to limit other people&#039;s rights, then he crosses the line.  He doesn&#039;t want to marry a man, that is fabulous for him. He doesn&#039;t want to perform a ceremony for gays in his church. Outstanding. He wants to stop people he doesn&#039;t even know from getting married, that is what is un-American and horrible. 

By the way, I served in Baghdad for a year fighting for the rights of all Americans, including homosexuals.
Take care,
Alec</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DH,<br />
   There is a big difference between &#8220;voicing your opinion&#8221;, and advocating that a specific group of people should have their rights squashed and their very humanity questioned.</p>
<p>Yes, DH, you have the great right to speak your mind, but that does not mean you deserve an historic platform to speak those ideas. </p>
<p>We would never give a national platform to someone who believed that blacks, women, or Jews were somehow &#8220;lesser&#8221; children of God, and that is exactly what Warren believes about Gays. He believes they are inherently flawed and wrong.</p>
<p>So, yes, DH, you can believe and say whatever you like, but when what you say is hurtful and abhorrent to the American ideal of equality, why should you be given the platform to say it? You can be a racist, homophobe, xenophobe or whatever, but if you express those ideas in public I will express my opposing view.</p>
<p>No one ever said Warren couldn&#8217;t say whatever he likes. We just don&#8217;t think his oppressive views should be given a national stage, just like we wouldn&#8217;t give a national stage to other bigots. </p>
<p>Reverend Warren can believe whatever he wants, but the second he tries to limit other people&#8217;s rights, then he crosses the line.  He doesn&#8217;t want to marry a man, that is fabulous for him. He doesn&#8217;t want to perform a ceremony for gays in his church. Outstanding. He wants to stop people he doesn&#8217;t even know from getting married, that is what is un-American and horrible. </p>
<p>By the way, I served in Baghdad for a year fighting for the rights of all Americans, including homosexuals.<br />
Take care,<br />
Alec</p>
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