Abortion politics trump social justice at Catholic school

Why isn’t opposition to the death penalty among the “non-negotiables” for the RC church? it is part of the church’s doctrine.

Since when does an accessory to murder deserve an award? No need for “social justice” for the inconveniently conceived. Holy Angels should have done it’s homework first, but vetting seems to be a lost art in the era of Hope and Change.

RD

What? You mean the Catholic Church doesn’t approve of abortion??

This site is really funny!

“Rep Paul Thissen stripped of an award”

…so I interviewed on of the “Holy Angels” and she said…”the devil made me do it.”…amen.

just curious, why is homosexual in quotation marks before the word marriage? since you can’t hear my voice over this thing, please understand i’m not asking it in an accusatorial tone. thanks.

Because “homosexual” is how the Catholic hierarchy refers to gays and lesbians. We generally dislike that descriptor, so it’s noted in quotes as a word used by them, not us.

In September of 1960 John F. Kennedy said these words to reassure a concerned nation that he would not attempt to impose his religious beliefs on them:

“I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute–where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote–where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference–and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.”

Paul Thissen is a responsible legislator and and engaging, intelligent and accomplised human being. The actions of those at Holy Angel’s High School reflect poorly on them, not him.

“…my position on giving women the choice of what to do during a pregnancy,”

Hello Rep Thissen, women and men have a choice whether to conceive children or not. No one should be forced to procreate. However after having made that choice and starting a pregnancy, starting a life, the choice you refer to in your quote above is the choice whether to end the life of a human or not. At least use accurate language that doesn’t demean both writer and reader in the process.

We can’t have an intelligent debate without clarity of thought and expression. Intellectual honesty should be mandatory for all public servants.

Not that it should matter, but I’m neither religious nor a prude. Merely an honest and responsible citizen.

Maybe Mr. Burton will buy Mr. Thissen an award. Then again, maybe not — that’s Thissen’s a bit of a whiner, isn’t he?

Ron Thiessen,

Prohibitions against killing aren’t really the sole province of churches, correct? Spare us the “separation of church and state” and “imposing religion” arguments. Stick to the concept of the pure immorality of killing for convenience sake, otherwise you are obscuring the point. However you may freely debate the morality of killing if you choose, but that is not what you argued above.

I am pro-choice. All should have the freedom to choose to procreate. That does not mean that we get to take a “mulligan” if we make a choice we later regret.

In response to Mark:

“No one should be forced to procreate. However after having made that choice”

Are all pregnancy’s the result of choice?

“Spare us the “separation of church and state” and “imposing religion” arguments”

I didn’t make those arguments, I quoted John Kennedy making those arguments. I believe President Kennedy did not personally condone abortion. I don’t condone abortion either except when the pregnancy is unintended or when the womans life is at risk and she makes that choice. Since the intent of the woman or the risk to her life are factors that can’t be known by me, I believe the decision has to be made by the mother. As a society, I believe we have the obligation to protect all life. That is why we regulate abortion to attempt to balance the rights of the mother with the rights of the unborn child. That balance will always change as technology and human sensibility changes. Few support an unconditional ban on abortion or an unconditional right to choose abortion. The absolute positions of a few are what makes this difficult problem even more difficult.

“However you may freely debate the morality of killing if you choose”

Thanks for your permission Mark.

“We can’t have an intelligent debate without clarity of thought and expression”

I agree with you on that.

“At least use accurate language that doesn’t demean both writer and reader in the process”

And that as well.

Who wins, who loses:
I would think Thiessen would feel vindicated for not being endorsed by a private school whose religious views are in conflict with his… and those Holy Angels so publically exposing themselves, their political/religious perspectives in the process, certainly will have more enlightened parents no longer embracing Holy Angels as a viable institution to educate their children.

How many ‘holy angels’ can dance on the head of public funds:
consider also…if federal or state funds nurture the coffers of Holy Angels, then there is reason for concern by the state or the feds.

Ron,

I think we agree on most things, and the civility with which we do is also heartening. Though admittedly I can sound harsh when writing about such important things; any perceived ill will on my part is not intended.

To answer your question, I think the only pregnancies that are not a choice are those that are a result of coercion. Rape and incest and the most readily identfiable examples. Abortion is justifiable in those cases.

Beryl seems to believe the enlightened favor abortion. I hope that is not the majority view. If it is, how did we as a culture get to that point? Where infanticide is advocated as a resolution of an irresponsible choice. Where people who believe, and more importantly act as they believe, that life and liberty are sacred are viewed as the radicals. Really?

Mark,
It appears that Beryl is not saying that abortion is an enlightened choice but rather that parents, in deciding where to send their children for an education might think twice before choosing Holy Angels. How Representative Thissen votes on any particular legislation would not, at times, reflect his personal views if he is truly representing a broad constituency. In judging him, the hierarchy of Holy Angels might consider some of the moral dilemmas the Catholic Church is grappling with at this time. The failure of the Church to deal with pedophiles and Holocaust deniers in its own ranks raises questions about its own moral authority. Its opposition to effective birth control methods at the same time it opposes abortion leaves its members with untenable choices. A fundamental precept of the church is that God is the final judge and that the life of Christ exemplified an understanding of our inability to know and judge all things. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” is wise advice for all people, religious or not, who want to coexist in a just and civil society.
I was educated in Catholic schools by nuns who instilled values of social justice, pluralism and non judgmentalism. Perhaps my memories have been clouded by time but, as I recall, those nuns, although strict disciplinarians, were well educated in philosophy, science, math, theology and history. They seemed to understand the difference between secular issues and spiritual issues. I am not sure about the state of parochial education today.
I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I think we would all do well to ratchet down the inflammatory rhetoric and engage in constructive dialogue, and you are doing that. I have only met representative Thissen on one occasion but my overall impression was that anyone who played a part in his education should be proud to claim him as one of their own.

Ron’s comments about the Catholic church are spot on. I’ve no view on parochial education then or now. I simply have no experience there. It does surprise me that people are surprised when Catholic churchs and their schools take an anti-abortion stand. Anyway I’m not a one issue voter. Too many pressing things to work on.

Mr. Thisson,

I don’t understand why there is even a debate going on here. In this age of “tolerance” and being p.c., why is this even an issue? We can respect the fact that all faiths have the right to its own belief. Your Catholic alma mater has certain criteria for who will or will not be awarded for good deeds and accomplishments. Catholics, along with many others, have a set code of conduct called the 10 Commandments. Holy Angels may have really desired to acknowledge its alumnus by giving you an award, but, “HELLO!” They are Catholic and you have strayed. Get over the fact that the Catholic tradition, that has been around for some 2,000 or so years, won’t bend the rules a bit to present you with a plaque with an engraved “Lapsed Catholic of the Year.” You made your choice when you stopped working for Justice. If you really think you are worthy of an award from a Catholic institution, it is time you revisit what your Catechism has to say about Justice. I apologize for sounding angry, but I do admit that I am angered by your lack of sensitivity to what it means to be Catholic.