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	<title>Comments on: Strib Snubs Source in Target &#8220;Rounders&#8221; Cover Story</title>
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		<title>By: marynmck</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9383</link>
		<dc:creator>marynmck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9383</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Posting on this at Poynter.org&lt;/strong&gt; Just to add that I&#039;ve put a post on this in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=31&amp;aid=133829&quot;&gt;the E-media column&lt;/a&gt; at the journalism site &lt;a href=&quot;http://Poynter.org&quot;&gt;Poynter.org&lt;/a&gt;, linking Kohler&#039;s posts and comments and this MnMon one. (I&#039;m an E-Media contributor.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Posting on this at Poynter.org</strong> Just to add that I&#39;ve put a post on this in <a href="http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=31&amp;aid=133829">the E-media column</a> at the journalism site <a href="http://Poynter.org">Poynter.org</a>, linking Kohler&#39;s posts and comments and this MnMon one. (I&#39;m an E-Media contributor.)</p>
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		<title>By: edkohler</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9382</link>
		<dc:creator>edkohler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 09:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9382</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Unintended Linkitude&lt;/strong&gt; Paul, I&#039;m sure they didn&#039;t intentionally link to anything within the online version. As I understand it, their CMS auto-links terms ending in &quot;.com&quot; so make sure you tell them you&#039;re with &lt;a href=&quot;http://MinnesotaMonitor.com&quot;&gt;MinnesotaMonitor.com&lt;/a&gt; if asked. Look for something on Technology Evangelist about this later this week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Unintended Linkitude</strong> Paul, I&#39;m sure they didn&#39;t intentionally link to anything within the online version. As I understand it, their CMS auto-links terms ending in &#8220;.com&#8221; so make sure you tell them you&#39;re with <a href="http://MinnesotaMonitor.com">MinnesotaMonitor.com</a> if asked. Look for something on Technology Evangelist about this later this week.</p>
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		<title>By: Noah Kunin</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9381</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah Kunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9381</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Timeline confusion&lt;/strong&gt; So, I had assumed that Crosby has missed Siman&#039;s blog completely since Sweester didn&#039;t link to it in the body of the post...&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nope.&#160; On 11/29 (the article went up on 11/30):&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;jackie crosby&#160; said...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160; Rosie:&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160; Drop me a line. I cover Target for a newspaper in Minneapolis. (And am a former sports editor of the Red and Black...)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160; Best,&lt;br&gt;&#160; Jackie&lt;/br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&#160; November 29, 2007 6:38 PM&lt;/br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;(&lt;a href=&quot;http://rosiesiman.blogspot.com/2007/10/target-update.html&quot;&gt;http://rosiesiman.bl...&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;-----&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On [December 2, 2007, 5:51 pm] Crosby said:&lt;/br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;To be fair, I did credit the original source of the flap: The teacher from the University of Georgia. She put it out there. The bloggers, including you, just linked to her work&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;(&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thedeets.com/2007/12/01/blogger-sees-red-over-startribunes-lack-of-citation/#comment-3908&quot;&gt;http://www.thedeets....&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;-----&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;So, what&#039;s going on here?&#160; Crosby knew that Siman self-published and was first to print (unless she&#039;s savvy enough to redate her posts..not sure how works using Blogger) so why does she dissaemble while commenting at the Deets?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thoughts?&lt;br&gt;&lt;/br&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Timeline confusion</strong> So, I had assumed that Crosby has missed Siman&#39;s blog completely since Sweester didn&#39;t link to it in the body of the post&#8230;
<p>Nope.&nbsp; On 11/29 (the article went up on 11/30):</p>
<p>jackie crosby&nbsp; said&#8230;</p>
<p>&nbsp; Rosie:</p>
<p>&nbsp; Drop me a line. I cover Target for a newspaper in Minneapolis. (And am a former sports editor of the Red and Black&#8230;)</p>
<p>&nbsp; Best,<br />&nbsp; Jackie<br />&nbsp; November 29, 2007 6:38 PM</p>
<p>(<a href="http://rosiesiman.blogspot.com/2007/10/target-update.html"></a><a href="http://rosiesiman.bl.." rel="nofollow">http://rosiesiman.bl..</a>.)</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>On [December 2, 2007, 5:51 pm] Crosby said:</p>
<p>To be fair, I did credit the original source of the flap: The teacher from the University of Georgia. She put it out there. The bloggers, including you, just linked to her work</p>
<p>(<a href="http://www.thedeets.com/2007/12/01/blogger-sees-red-over-startribunes-lack-of-citation/#comment-3908"></a><a href="http://www.thedeets..." rel="nofollow">http://www.thedeets&#8230;</a>.)</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>So, what&#39;s going on here?&nbsp; Crosby knew that Siman self-published and was first to print (unless she&#39;s savvy enough to redate her posts..not sure how works using Blogger) so why does she dissaemble while commenting at the Deets?</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Noah Kunin</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9380</link>
		<dc:creator>Noah Kunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9380</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;what&#039;s worse...&lt;/strong&gt; The bigger problem is that the conclusion of Crosby&#039;s article is unclear at best and wrong at worse:&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;She wrote a research paper on the ethics of social marketing tools in a public relations class at the University of Georgia. When her teacher, Kaye Sweetser, heard Siman&#039;s story, she posted it on her blog.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;And as happens, one blogger told another. And so on, and so on.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;The first two sentences don&#039;t even belong together in the same paragraph - you can see the footprint of the editor here - the line about the research paper belongs in the paragraph above it (re: Siman&#039;s insistence on transparency) but has been awkwardly moved to the paragraph below to prevent two hanging lines in a row.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;This gives the impression that the paper initiated the conversation with Sweester, which is misleading.&#160; It also confuses the timeline completely.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Siman was the one to break the story, not Sweester.&#160; Siman posted on 10/8 and 10/9 with Sweester posting her write-up on 10/10 - without a link to Siman&#039;s posts.&#160; Siman has smartly gone back and placed links to her site in the comments on Sweester&#039;s post.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Strib has an uneven approach to citation from online soruces which can be forgiven and improved with constructive feedback.&#160; Even with editorial cuts Crosby should have insisted the article be run with a link to Siman&#039;s original article at minimum or not at all.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;What can&#039;t be forgiven is the sliding editorial standards which confuse the actual story and the misleading headline.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>what&#39;s worse&#8230;</strong> The bigger problem is that the conclusion of Crosby&#39;s article is unclear at best and wrong at worse:
<p>&#8220;She wrote a research paper on the ethics of social marketing tools in a public relations class at the University of Georgia. When her teacher, Kaye Sweetser, heard Siman&#39;s story, she posted it on her blog.</p>
<p>And as happens, one blogger told another. And so on, and so on.&#8221;</p>
<p>The first two sentences don&#39;t even belong together in the same paragraph &#8211; you can see the footprint of the editor here &#8211; the line about the research paper belongs in the paragraph above it (re: Siman&#39;s insistence on transparency) but has been awkwardly moved to the paragraph below to prevent two hanging lines in a row.</p>
<p>This gives the impression that the paper initiated the conversation with Sweester, which is misleading.&nbsp; It also confuses the timeline completely.</p>
<p>Siman was the one to break the story, not Sweester.&nbsp; Siman posted on 10/8 and 10/9 with Sweester posting her write-up on 10/10 &#8211; without a link to Siman&#39;s posts.&nbsp; Siman has smartly gone back and placed links to her site in the comments on Sweester&#39;s post.</p>
<p>The Strib has an uneven approach to citation from online soruces which can be forgiven and improved with constructive feedback.&nbsp; Even with editorial cuts Crosby should have insisted the article be run with a link to Siman&#39;s original article at minimum or not at all.</p>
<p>What can&#39;t be forgiven is the sliding editorial standards which confuse the actual story and the misleading headline.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Schmelzer</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9379</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Schmelzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9379</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The print/online disconnect&lt;/strong&gt; Space in print sounds like a legitimate enough excuse, I suppose. The problem, then, seems to be that the Strib is still putting print first and writing exclusively for that medium. If there&#039;s a longer version of Crosby&#039;s story out there, why couldn&#039;t they put that online? When the Strib posted her story online, the web editor took the time to add a link -- only, instead of linking to sources that could provide readers with context or more information, like Kohler or Rosie Siman, they linked to the ubiquitous Facebook. Weird.&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;And to Dave Hanners: When you put your cowboy boots and hop onto Ed Kohler&#039;s coffee table, can I liveblog it?&#160; ;)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The print/online disconnect</strong> Space in print sounds like a legitimate enough excuse, I suppose. The problem, then, seems to be that the Strib is still putting print first and writing exclusively for that medium. If there&#39;s a longer version of Crosby&#39;s story out there, why couldn&#39;t they put that online? When the Strib posted her story online, the web editor took the time to add a link &#8212; only, instead of linking to sources that could provide readers with context or more information, like Kohler or Rosie Siman, they linked to the ubiquitous Facebook. Weird.
<p>And to Dave Hanners: When you put your cowboy boots and hop onto Ed Kohler&#39;s coffee table, can I liveblog it?&nbsp; <img src='http://minnesotaindependent.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Robin Marty</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9378</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9378</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;you should know&lt;/strong&gt; I do believe the star tribune has done the exact same thing to you at least once.&#160; &#039;If I remember right, when asked, the reporter said that she would have mentioned interviewing you, but that ended up on the editing floor due to &quot;space issues.&quot;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;;-)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>you should know</strong> I do believe the star tribune has done the exact same thing to you at least once.&nbsp; &#39;If I remember right, when asked, the reporter said that she would have mentioned interviewing you, but that ended up on the editing floor due to &#8220;space issues.&#8221;
<p> <img src='http://minnesotaindependent.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andy Birkey</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9377</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Birkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9377</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Sure&lt;/strong&gt; You say: &quot;Reporting the news is about telling readers things that might matter to them.&quot;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;Do you think that bloggers don&#039;t do the same? Is there a line between what the Star Tribune writes and what MinMon writes or MinnPost writes or CityPages writes or what the Deets writes?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;She used a blogger to source a story that she already read through the blogger. If I called the Star Tribune and asked them for sources on a story they already wrote you better be damn sure they&#039;d ask for attribution.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sure</strong> You say: &#8220;Reporting the news is about telling readers things that might matter to them.&#8221;
<p>Do you think that bloggers don&#39;t do the same? Is there a line between what the Star Tribune writes and what MinMon writes or MinnPost writes or CityPages writes or what the Deets writes?</p>
<p>She used a blogger to source a story that she already read through the blogger. If I called the Star Tribune and asked them for sources on a story they already wrote you better be damn sure they&#39;d ask for attribution.</p>
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		<title>By: dhanners</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9376</link>
		<dc:creator>dhanners</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 22:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9376</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Huh?&lt;/strong&gt; Jeez. Give. Me. A. Break. Bloggers need to get over themselves. They may have their set of rules, but they certainly didn&#039;t invent journalistic ethics, nor do they have any corner on what is considered acceptable journalistic practice. The guidelines of fair and ethical journalism were around long before bloggers came along, and by those wholly appropriate standards, Crosby did nothing wrong or inappropriate. She took an idea that people were talking about -- who the hell cares where the idea came from? -- and did her own original reporting and wrote a story. It wasn&#039;t a re-write of anything, and I&#039;ll stand on Kohler&#039;s coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that. Reporting the news is about telling readers things that might matter to them. It isn&#039;t about feeding the cult of personality that seems to permeate a lot of blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Huh?</strong> Jeez. Give. Me. A. Break. Bloggers need to get over themselves. They may have their set of rules, but they certainly didn&#39;t invent journalistic ethics, nor do they have any corner on what is considered acceptable journalistic practice. The guidelines of fair and ethical journalism were around long before bloggers came along, and by those wholly appropriate standards, Crosby did nothing wrong or inappropriate. She took an idea that people were talking about &#8212; who the hell cares where the idea came from? &#8212; and did her own original reporting and wrote a story. It wasn&#39;t a re-write of anything, and I&#39;ll stand on Kohler&#39;s coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that. Reporting the news is about telling readers things that might matter to them. It isn&#39;t about feeding the cult of personality that seems to permeate a lot of blogs.</p>
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		<title>By: marynmck</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-9375</link>
		<dc:creator>marynmck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-9375</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A little more precision of language, please.&lt;/strong&gt; It is possible that I missed the latest edition of Journalism Argot for Dummies&#160; (you never know what these Arctic winds will blow off the porch). But to me, the characterizations of Ed of The Deets as a &quot;tipster&quot; and one of the &quot;&quot;people ... who don&#039;t get quoted every time we write stories&quot; are not accurate. He is, rather, someone who has published a prior version of the story.&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;The appropriate journalistic behavior, and emerging convention, is that when we write about a story that has already been covered elsewhere, we credit the prior source. If the story had been in a smaller local newspaper, or on a local TV station, the Strib would have - or should have - credited that outlet. That the story first appeared locally on a blog really makes no difference.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is really not hard to do this. For better or worse, we have passed the point when we could persuade readers that all our stories are exclusive originals; some are, but many are value-added, and it does not diminish our power or authority to acknowledge this. Also, it is also not smart &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to do this. Because, as the comments on Ed&#039;s site and this MnMon post illustrate, the blogosphere is watching.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A little more precision of language, please.</strong> It is possible that I missed the latest edition of Journalism Argot for Dummies&nbsp; (you never know what these Arctic winds will blow off the porch). But to me, the characterizations of Ed of The Deets as a &#8220;tipster&#8221; and one of the &#8220;&#8221;people &#8230; who don&#39;t get quoted every time we write stories&#8221; are not accurate. He is, rather, someone who has published a prior version of the story.
<p>The appropriate journalistic behavior, and emerging convention, is that when we write about a story that has already been covered elsewhere, we credit the prior source. If the story had been in a smaller local newspaper, or on a local TV station, the Strib would have &#8211; or should have &#8211; credited that outlet. That the story first appeared locally on a blog really makes no difference.</p>
<p>It is really not hard to do this. For better or worse, we have passed the point when we could persuade readers that all our stories are exclusive originals; some are, but many are value-added, and it does not diminish our power or authority to acknowledge this. Also, it is also not smart <i>not</i> to do this. Because, as the comments on Ed&#39;s site and this MnMon post illustrate, the blogosphere is watching.</p>
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		<title>By: marynmck</title>
		<link>http://minnesotaindependent.com/2771/strib-snubs-source-in-target-rounders-cover-story/comment-page-1#comment-3599</link>
		<dc:creator>marynmck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.minnesotaindependent.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/?p=2771#comment-3599</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;A little more precision of language, please.&lt;/strong&gt; It is possible that I missed the latest edition of Journalism Argot for Dummies&#160; (you never know what these Arctic winds will blow off the porch). But to me, the characterizations of Ed of The Deets as a &quot;tipster&quot; and one of the &quot;&quot;people ... who don&#039;t get quoted every time we write stories&quot; are not accurate. He is, rather, someone who has published a prior version of the story.&lt;p&gt;
The appropriate journalistic behavior, and emerging convention, is that when we write about a story that has already been covered elsewhere, we credit the prior source. If the story had been in a smaller local newspaper, or on a local TV station, the Strib would have - or should have - credited that outlet. That the story first appeared locally on a blog really makes no difference.&lt;p&gt;
It is really not hard to do this. For better or worse, we have passed the point when we could persuade readers that all our stories are exclusive originals; some are, but many are value-added, and it does not diminish our power or authority to acknowledge this. Also, it is also not smart &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to do this. Because, as the comments on Ed&#039;s site and this MnMon post illustrate, the blogosphere is watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>A little more precision of language, please.</strong> It is possible that I missed the latest edition of Journalism Argot for Dummies&nbsp; (you never know what these Arctic winds will blow off the porch). But to me, the characterizations of Ed of The Deets as a &#8220;tipster&#8221; and one of the &#8220;&#8221;people &#8230; who don&#8217;t get quoted every time we write stories&#8221; are not accurate. He is, rather, someone who has published a prior version of the story.
<p>
The appropriate journalistic behavior, and emerging convention, is that when we write about a story that has already been covered elsewhere, we credit the prior source. If the story had been in a smaller local newspaper, or on a local TV station, the Strib would have &#8211; or should have &#8211; credited that outlet. That the story first appeared locally on a blog really makes no difference.</p>
<p>
It is really not hard to do this. For better or worse, we have passed the point when we could persuade readers that all our stories are exclusive originals; some are, but many are value-added, and it does not diminish our power or authority to acknowledge this. Also, it is also not smart <i>not</i> to do this. Because, as the comments on Ed&#8217;s site and this MnMon post illustrate, the blogosphere is watching.</p>
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