Bachmann, Kline oppose public option because it’s ‘cheaper’

If you subsidize something and give it away for free, I suppose that would be considered “cheaper,” as long as you’re not the one who’s paying the bill.

Taking the bus for $1.00 is “cheaper” than driving. In terms of actual costs it isn’t, though, is it? Therein lies only part of the problem.

AMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!

It’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.

STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.

And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.

Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust government-run public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).

Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.

In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!

If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.

THIS IS THE BIG ONE!

THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!

Join the fight.

Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!

God Bless You

Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS

Sarah Palin’s Sister

The Health Care issue is crucial. America is in crisis and will continue to be as long as health care is not addressed. Businesses both large and small understand the importance of production. If employees are not healthy than production is lessened. With healthier employees on board they feel better worry less about their families and production is increased. This is simple economics!

Why doesn’t the GOP understand this, and why don’t the conservative Democrats see this. Has the conservative base set parameters around health care as only an elite factor? Are the poor destine to only relay on hospital emergency room coverage?

The budget certainly is of concern. Why hasn’t anyone analyzed the actual cost savings with universal health coverage? This analysis would allow for both side to gain greater insight.

For now, it is crucial that health care reform begin immediately and then health care cost reduction strategies must follow.

I agree 1000% with Jacksmith’s comment posted at 4:53 pm today. PRESIDENT OBAMA is a very intelligent and brilliant person. So America should get behind him in order to get out of mess GW left us in.

No it is still cheaper to drive the bus now and usually always in the long term as municipalities green up, the burden on down the line is less, you should do more math

Hmmm.. I keep hearing how the private health care industry can do it SO MUCH BETTER than the public option. Man Up Health Care Insurance Companies. The chance of a lifetime to prove yourselves right! Prove you can do it better and cheaper than the public option.

So what is wrong with cheaper? Other than the pricate sector offering mor expensive.

So let me get this right….

I shouldn’t take part in the next census because “The Man” will use the info to get me. And I have no health insurance so I should be against it because Insurance companies won’t be able to compete.

Bachmann is batshit crazy!

The insurance companies are interested in one thing only. Profits. They are in the business of making money like any other corporation. The way the health care insurance companies make money is to charge more for coverage than they pay out in claims.

The GOP is dying a slow and painful death and I couldn’t be happier.

who voted for this woman?

Health Insurance Companies ADD 30% to EVERY HEALTH CARE BILL. Cut them out and your SAVE 25% of the TOTAL the USA spends on insured health care. A government plan will have 5% overhead, just like medicare.

As for “rationing”, the Health Insurance Companies RATION ALL F THE TIME. Except it is calle “PROFIT ENHANCEMENT”. Deny tests, Deny surgeries, Deny medication. THEY DO IT TO MAKE MORE MONEY. It is a CRIME, and we must end the monopoly of these CRIMINALS.

Meanwhile, the HEALTH LOBBY has spent $170 MILLION in “lobbying” (BRIBING) Congress to KILL health care reform. Why? Because they will no longer be able to reap the TRILLIONS of dollars that pour into their coffers.

HealthInsurance Companies are CRIMINALS that KILL AMERICANS every day.

The idea is this, isn’t it? Every American pays into a government run health care plan. They pay into it via taxes that are deemed fair–no one American pays into it more than any other American. The government puts the money into a bank account. An American citizen goes to the doctor and gets a physical, or a cataract removed, or their child gets his or her tonsils out. Universal standards are set for what can be charged for each procedure. When the procedure is done, the doctor bills the US government’s health care bank account, and they send him a check. The doctor will decide for the patient what should be treated and how the treatment should be carried out. So here we really have just the patient and the doctor. If the patient wants extra care, like cosmetic surgery on their butt, or their lips enlarged, they can pay out of their own pocket. If they hate to have to wait 5 months under the government plan to get their cataracts removed, they can still pay out of their own pocket and get their cataracts removed next week. So the patient’s should be happy, both rich and poor. The doctor’s liability insurance is also removed. If a patient files a claim against the doctor for malpractice, the government will pay the claim, and can suspend the doctor’s license. So not having to pay liability insurance, the doctor’s income does not drop significantly, although it does drop. So the doctors should also be happy.

…..Send in the clowns!!!!!!

When I was growing up I kept running across adult Americans I didnt like. They were always trying to control me, to shut me up, they acted as I stank. Now I know who they were. Michelle Bachman was one of them (symbolically). My high school principal (may he rot in hell) was another. There is a mass of right wing Protestant fanatical Americans who are simply nauseating. First of all, they act as if they own the world. No one but them and their ilk has any value. Now that the world has changed they are coming out of the woodwork. Before they ran the country to suit themselves, keeping blacks, latinos gays and women in their place. Desperately, hysterically they now realize they have lost money (through their own greed which has devalued money) and power and they are showing their true colors. I believe in freedom of speech, but when they start blathering and blithering and whining and making no sense whatsoever, somebody should really shut them up.

————————- HEALTH CARE REFORM ————————-

Let our Congressional leaders clearly understand that lack of a condition-free Public Option in any successful Health Care Reform legislation will have negative consequences for them in the upcoming election.

…….. Heed this or enjoy your last term in US Congress ……….

Health Care Reform is MEANINGLESS without a strong condition-free PUBLIC OPTION with clear unrestricted path to SINGLE PAYER.

A Public Option must be administered by the Federal Government.
A Public Option must be available to anyone who wants it.
A Public Option must be available to anyone, irrespective of Pre-Existing Conditions
A Public Option must be available to anyone at affordable rates.
A Public Option must be available to anyone whether employed or not.
A Public Option must be available to anyone whether his/her employer offers it or not.
A Public Option must NOT have any conditions placed on it by any private or for-profit entities.
A Public Option must NOT restrict anyone from opting in or out of it.
A Public Option must NOT be restricted from evolving into Single Payer.

A Public Option, and ultimately Single Payer, must be fully financed from federal taxes.

It’s time the United States joined other civilized nations of the world in providing basic health care to ALL it’s citizens, without exception.

Don’t bother to pass anything if it does not have A CLEAR CONDITION-FREE PUBLIC OPTION.

======================= DON’T WASTE OUR MONEY =======================

…. It’s Right …. It’s in OUR INTEREST …. IT’S ABOUT TIME …..

Antonio518: I felt sad reading your comments…….don’t every let these people demean you, belittle you in any way. Sarah Palin is the type of person (along with Batshit Bachmann) who was a d+ to c- student in high school who sat in the back of the room and laughed at the good students. I’ve seen this type all my life and the best thing is to just dismiss them. Ignore them.

However, I live in Massachusetts and I love Minnesota and the wonderful people who live there–and I cannot understand WHO would VOTE for Bachmann….it is clear to me she is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Who are her constituents?

I love the people of Minnasota but Bachmann is bad for you. I just don’t understand Bachmann’s common sense. She is against a public option that will be cheaper for Americans and help Americans and yet she is against helping the American people? I just would like to know who does she pander to in her district? I have a friend who lives in her district and he is so embarrassed by Bachmann’s actions and they can’t wait until the vote her out of office.

He also noted that Bachmann has not introduced any legislation that have benefited the people of her district let alone America.

We the people have to march, to organize against this inhumane system that is built on the de-facto murder of our fellow citizens; through the willful systematic denial of coverage and therefore critical care when needed. Is it so much to ask to live in a country where we don’t have to be scared of perusing treatment for cancer, heart disease or diabetes because treatment is considered a luxury. It is a international embarrassment that as citizens of United States we give credit to this Private Health Care System that is run like a cartel and, our quality of life a profit motive. It is now time to organize against the Private Care System that has treated us like cattle to the slaughter. We will march, we will organize, we will twitter, until we have wrestled back our humanity from these monsters.

[...] on the House floor calling the plans for a public option a poor idea because it was cheaper than private plans. Approximately 114 million Americans are expected to leave private health insurance. Why? Their [...]

Yeah people should just die cause its cheaper that way.

The problem with the first commenter is that bus fare by 1 or 2 dollars is enough for the bus system to sustain itself and it is cheaper than driving. What is wrong with that?

History shows that anytime the government gets involved, prices skyrocket. When did medical costs first start to escalate? After medicare and medicaid were introduced in 1965 and government decided how much doctors and hospitals should receive in payment. Then the next major increase in insurance premiums came after 1996 when Clinton signed the HIPAA regulation which prohibits insurance companies from excluding pre-existing conditions if the employee had continuous insurance coverage.

Most, if not all, drug companies have programs to help people who cannot afford their medications – so that’s not an excuse. Hospitals and doctors work with and many offer discounts to cash paying customers – so that’s not an excuse.

Insurance is not a RIGHT – it is a privilege.

“This action will collapse the private health insurance market…”

SO? Remind us again why we should give a rat’s a$$ about the private health insurance market!

Christopher writes: “Taking the bus for $1.00 is “cheaper” than driving. In terms of actual costs it isn’t, though, is it? Therein lies only part of the problem.”

Actually, yes, it is. Per capita fuel costs, fuel emissions and vehicle maintenance costs are much lower when people use public transportation. If you’re referring to state and federal subsidies for public transportation, those numbers vary depending on where you are, but it’s never more than fractions of a penny of your tax dollars, and still below-cost for the above-mentioned expenses per capita.

Some of you folks are pretty desperate to discredit any sort of “public” enterprise.

Kline, Bachman, et al have there noses so far up the insurance lobby’s behind it’s pathetic. Their arguments are lame. The public option takes the burden of health care off of small business, which these pols say is the backbone of our economic recovery. How can that not be a good thing. The only industry this will hurt is the health insurance industry and they know it. That’s why they are getting these pathetic lackey’s to try and scare the people. Take Mitch McConnell’s “friend of a friend” remark on the Meet the Press. Are you kidding me? That’s the best you’ve got? That’s your argument against a public option and you expect us to buy it. And why didn’t Gregory hammer him with that urban legend story? Pathetic.

BD, I couldn’t agree more. A lot of the problems with American health care–a bloated bureaucracy, decisions on treatment options dictated by bean-counters instead of doctors or patients, etc.–can be traced back to private medical insurance companies. If they go out of business, why would that be such a bad thing?

People commenting should have to declare that they are not employed by the health insurance industry…..

Cheaper, better–must be “Socialism”!

For a good anology compare health care to postal services. Why are Fed Ex, DHL, and UPS somewhat reasonable? Because they have to compete with the United States Postal Service, that’s why. If we ever got rid of the US Postal Service guess how much a simple letter would cost to mail from Texas to Virginia??? My guess would be in the $4.00 range. Rendering postal options for the low income to virtually extinction. They wouldn’t be able to pay their bills through the mail.

I vote for giving the health care system some competition.

It is only cheaper because the US Govt tells the hospitals/physicians what they will pay for each procedure. The medical community will then increase the price for private insurance coverage to make up the difference in their budgets. The private insurance will raise their rates and then the people will go to the public option. The problem is that the Govt is subsidizing the program and also once the other private options are gone the medical community will not be able to exist at the current standards. Private companies could also lower their fees if they had the authority to tell the medical community how much they can charge. HMM, The Govt telling businesses how much they can charge??? Democracy or socialism. You answer that question honestly.

“HMM, The Govt telling businesses how much they can charge??? Democracy or socialism. You answer that question honestly.”

If that’s what we elected our government to do – and in this case, it is – then it’s democracy.

Sorry.

Rep. John Kline has accepted $99,400 from the health insurance industry since 1990. He is a staunch opponent of the public option.

Rep. Michele Bachmann raised $45,950 from the health insurance industry and opposes any public health insurance system, saying that if such a plan passes everyone would be under “a government-run program.”

Rep. Collin Peterson has taken in $45,250 from the health insurance industry and has been leaning toward opposing the public option.

Rep. Erik Paulsen has received $39,550 in contributions from the health insurance industry but opposes any government-run health care.

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME – let’s start with the understanding that there is no healthcare crisis because there is none!!! It is a scare tactic being used to get a piece of legislation through that is not needed. (My Daddy used to call that a ’solution to a problem that does not exist!’

Health Care Reform is MEANINGLESS without a strong condition-free PUBLIC OPTION with clear unrestricted path to SINGLE PAYER. – The current PUBLIC OPTION destroys 1/6 of the nation’s economy, why would you do that???

A Public Option must be administered by the Federal Government. – The Same Federal Government that can not administer anything without screwing it up? They have failed at everything they have done, why would you trust them with this???

A Public Option must be available to anyone who wants it. – There is a current PUBLIC OPTION, it is called HCMC

A Public Option must be available to anyone, irrespective of Pre-Existing Conditions – TO go to HCMC you have no conditions

A Public Option must be available to anyone at affordable rates. – Called Sliding Scale at HCMC

A Public Option must be available to anyone whether employed or not. – Yep, HCMC works for this as well

A Public Option must be available to anyone whether his/her employer offers it or not. So let me get this straight, if you have the option to get health care and refuse it you should have the government give it to you free? And they said this is not socialism!!!

A Public Option must NOT have any conditions placed on it by any private or for-profit entities. – Again, let’s let the Government screw it up all by themselves

A Public Option must NOT restrict anyone from opting in or out of it. – Good, because when the doctor tells me or my family that they can not have a basic treatment because it is not paid for or that the government does not allow it or that they have used up all of the rationed allotments for now, I will need another option!!

A Public Option must NOT be restricted from evolving into Single Payer. – So you really do not want other options only a SINGLE PAYER plan run by the GOVERNMENT!! Thanks for clearing that up!!

A Public Option, and ultimately Single Payer, must be fully financed from federal taxes. – Lets call this what it is, SOCIALISM

It’s time the United States joined other civilized nations of the world in providing basic health care to ALL its citizens, without exception. – WHY??? They can not get it right; there is no model that works, why would you want to follow failed systems down a path of failure??? Because you neighbor has something and it looks really cool then you have to have it??? Grow up and realize that there is no CRISIS in America over healthcare, only the perception.

Don’t bother to pass anything if it does not have A CLEAR CONDITION-FREE PUBLIC OPTION.
THANKS, WE WILL PASS NOTHING THEN!!!!!!

Smile, you are on the Huffington Post also.

“The medical community will then increase the price for private insurance coverage to make up the difference in their budgets. The private insurance will raise their rates and then the people will go to the public option.”

You’ve just identified the problem. The healthcare industry as we know it in the US is insanely profitable. A public option that focuses on accessibility rather than profit…Well, that means it will be cheaper. And people will opt for cheaper.

So, instead of accepting less profit to deliver healthcare, the industry will instead raise rates, and price itself out of business? Which is pretty much what they’ve been doing, leading to the public outrage, and the inability of millions to purchase any kind of coverage.

Healthcare in the “richest” “most enlightened” nation in history should not be a privilege. Access to basic, affordable healthcare should be a fundamental human right. It’s a moral question, not a question of markets and business and industries.

Doctors living in mansions while people take up collections to pay for a procedure to save a kid’s life. That’s the rough big picture of inequity we have in front of us.

And still there are many who will defend that status quo, and attack a more moral, compassionate, “Christian” view of healthcare. It’s really incomprehensible.

Who would Jesus deny coverage?

Uh Duh! Making health care affordable WAS ONE OF THE GOALS FOR HEALTH CARE REFORM! As long as we can agree to who will pay the bills, were fine.

Moreover, if a public health care option is socialism, then these institutions are socialism also:
1. The Public Library system
2. City Police and Fire Department
3. Public Parks and Recreation
4. Public Power and Utilities
5. Public Transportation

It’s very simple people.

If single payer, public option healthcare is SO bad, the health insurance industry wouldn’t be spending 1.5 MILLION dollars a DAY lobbying to oppose it, on top of the payoffs they’ve already made to buy certain senators and congresscritters.

Anything that has these leechs THAT scared, cannot help but be good for the taxpayer.

Moreover, if a public health care option is socialism, then these institutions are socialism also:
1. The Public Library system
2. City Police and Fire Department
3. Public Parks and Recreation
4. Public Power and Utilities
5. Public Transportation

YES THEY ARE, and not well run any of them.

And the question is AFFORDABLE FOR WHO, my health care is affordable and I am happy with it. But the Government is going to force ma to move to their plan, that is not choice it is GOVERNMENT CONTROL. (ANTONIO518 – are you listening, they are telling you what to do again. Why would you want that???)

I don’t live in your state, but I still can’t believe this woman is in Congress. I’ve vacationed in Minnesota, I know for fact the people there are wonderful and smart. You should be able to pick a random person off the street and they would represent your interests better than Bachmann. We as a nation need to rid ourselves of incumbents; get a new group of people who actually represent our interests. Not the clowns we have now. Vote her out, she has no business being in the business of the people.

“YES THEY ARE, and not well run any of them.”

As opposed to what? Bear Stearns? Ford?

HOW IN GOD’S NAME DOES MICHELLE BACHMANN GET OUT OF BED AND GET DRESSED IN THE MORNING???!!!

I can certainly understand why Republicans want to have a profit making bureaucracy between me and my doctor. Part of the profits from insurance companies who deny claims and decline coverage and the profit margins on medicine for pharmaceutical companies go directly into the hands of Republicans. Another part of the profit, besides buying politicians, goes into advertising to keep people ignorant and frightened of government. One thing the last 8 years showed was that people who hate and fear government aren’t very good at governing. Fear, greed and beliefs over facts results in the failed polices we’re trying to reverse now. It took Republicans thirty years, six of which they had absolute power, to dig the hole this country is in now. This tragedy can’t be corrected in six months.

Anyone who thinks that democracy and socialism, regardless of their respective merits, are mutually exclusive, is too dumb to argue with.

Christopher at number 1.
How are we not “subsidizing” private insurance companies? Private insurance is very like the paramutuel racing system. All the bettors put their money in, the track takes off its 30% and then pays off with the rest of the money. All these insurance companies do is take our money and pay our bills. The classic middle-man golden egg. The insurance companies make $60 billion in profit each year. Multiply that by the 10 years in discussion and you will see that $600 billion has disappeared as far as patient care goes. That profit margin is nearly the exact amount we are looking for to ensure medical help for nearly 50 million people.
The reason we are scrambling to save money with health care is that we want to make sure and protect that $600 billion for the middle-men.

Sarge57 writes;”…the problem is that the Govt is subsidizing the program and also once the other private options are gone the medical community will not be able to exist at the current standards.”

With all respect, maybe you should ask the MEDICAL community. The American Medical Association, and the Pharmaceutical Associations have agreed with the President that the Public Option is viable and necessary.

I have 2 sons who are doctors- both say to me that this will not substantially affect their incomes.

And exactly WHAT by the way is SO wrong with Socialism? That is how the European countries are run, with no difference in life opportunities than in the USA.

Democracy is only useful if it reflects the TRUE WILL OF THE PEOPLE- and the PEOPLE want Public Health Care ( or Socialism, whatever!) which is what Jesus preached, if I read my Bible correctly – you are your brother’s keeper.

Mike,
Read the bill. The bill declares that you get to choose whether you stay on your current system, or not. Imagine if you were to lose your job. Then what system will you choose? … and will you need to pass a physician’s test to even get insurance at all?

By the way… I’m a career firefighter and I’m here to tell you that we are run very well and very efficiently. It’s amazing how “heroes” become goats when the political winds shift.

Health care should be a RIGHT, not a privilege.

Once we start from that perspective, everything begins to fall into place.

Constitutional amendment?

IF YOU ARE AGAINST HEALTH CARE REFORM, YOU ARE FRONTING FOR THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, THEIR CEO’S ARE TAKING HOME $100′S OF MILLIONS, SOME OF THEM EACH YEAR! That’s ok with you?
WE HAVE THE BEST DOCTOR’S AND HEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD, CORRECT! BUT MOST AMERICANS CANNOT AFFORD IT! Unless you work for Goldman Sachs or the US Government like Bachmann!

jacksmith, Working Class,

Your comment was brilliant. It says it all.

Go HR676.

MJP

To MIKE

It’s “Affordable for Whom” moron

[...] because it’s cheaper for Americans.  This is what Bachmann said on the house floor, via. Minnesota Independent, Approximately 114 million Americans are expected to leave private health insurance. Why? Their [...]

Stupid is as stupid does…….

I would say Minnesota urgently needs health-care reform, as they obviously need mental health coverage – it’s the only way to explain why they vote for these loons.

Alecia Raniba writes… Democracy is only useful if it reflects the TRUE WILL OF THE PEOPLE- and the PEOPLE want Public Health Care ( or Socialism, whatever!)

It is not what the people want; take a look at the polls, now less than 50% want this thing passed. And they sure do not want more taxes, on what ever group, to pay for it.

As to the question of what is wrong with socialism… you really think that you would have it just as good or better in the country’s that practice socialism? WoW, I am sorry, I like to achieve, I like to do better, I like to have a reason to get up in the morning and do something, I like to think that I make a difference in what I do. You do not have that in Socialism.

blaze,

sorry for not clarifying my comment!!! The administration of the police and firefighters are not well run, the day to day activity is above what someone should expect. I by no means wanted to say that the people doing the work are the problem. But take in how much waste and other problems are at the top, it is hard, not impossible, to find well administered departments. Again, my apologies for not making that clear!!!

Mike is your last name Bachman ?

I’m a right-wing conservative who did NOT vote for Obama. Not that gives me any credit, but think about these little nuggets – especially given the fact that I am all for Obama’s health care overhaul.

1. How is a government run health plan telling me what services and drugs they will / not pay for any different than my PRIVATE insurance company doing that today?

2. Why is a cheaper option, if not REQUIRED, not great?

3. If the private insurance companies cannot do it better than a public option – THAT’S CAPITALISM AT IS PRIME! Let them go out of business!

4. The private sector cannot compete with the government? Hogwash! UPS and FedEx compete directly with the USPS and they’re doing just fine.

[...]  Don’t think I haven’t been watching my personal favorite Crazy Train engineer, US Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-MN)! Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Senator echoes Tea Party rally cry – [...]

Palin-Bachmann 2012: Because the Democrats need a 75% majority in Congress.

It seems like the liberals always use half the argument to try and justify their positions. They also have to say that the other opinion is dumb or that those with a different position are stupid.Comments made about my post include that socialism is good, that all doctors are money hungry, etc. Having experienced the national health care in Australia, believe me that you want no part in it. The waits are lengthy and by then your problem is far more acute. It always annoys me when liberals use Jesus as their justification. Jesus didn’t want those that could work and don’t to be waited on hand and foot. Many of his teachings explain the work ethic and that people should not be lazy. We have a system already in place for those that can’t afford health insurance for legitimate reasons.I would appreciate it if the forum consisted of expressing differing views rather than the immature personal attacks. May God Bless all of you.

We had this Kline story back on July 1:
http://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2009/07/01/congressman-declares-public-option-too-good/

He continues to be as much of a nut as Bachmann, only with better control of his mouth — usually.

There is going to be a single-payers health insurance rally in Washington D.C. on July 30 for all who wants to go or help others go to speak for you. Link:

http://www.healthcare-now.org/campaigns/single-payer-rally/

It is obvious that Congress is not acting on behalf of the American people and is using their elected power to pander to the rich insurance companies and fight against the President for political points so we, the American people, need to remind all of them who they work for – US!!!! Spread the word.

AMEN Sarge57 AMEN

The GOP is nothing more than obstructionist that WANT to hold the American people hostage to big business like the insurance companies. The only reason the republinuts are aginst it is that it WILL help the low income folks in this country. I have talked to several friends from Canada and Europe and they tell me that they have NO PROBLEM getting medical attention when needed. The GOP is only doing this because the insurance lobby is lining these peoples pockets. The GOP has and always will be the party of the rich, they will help the rich keep getting rich and the poor getting poorer. Backmann is in idiot, how she was elected to congress still amazes me. I would be embarassed to know that she was from my state!!!!

To those wondering how this nutjob Bachman got elected, she comes from a very uneducated, religious district. Majority of people there are pure wingnuts.

Believe it or not, this is one of her intelligent statements. I wouldnt be surprised to find that she suffers from some sort of mental disorder.

The problem lies with people who vote for someone like her. There are many in this world and are unfortunately an easy target once you bring religion as a factor.

Alaskan Not Palin – Why do you need a constitutional amendment for something everyone already has? You have the right to health care, if you can not afford it, it will be provided to you. Just go to HCMC.

I want the same federal government health insurance as Bachmann and Kline. Do you hear them complain about there insurance??

“It is only cheaper because the US Govt tells the hospitals/physicians what they will pay for each procedure. The medical community will then increase the price for private insurance coverage to make up the difference in their budgets. The private insurance will raise their rates and then the people will go to the public option. ”
Insurance companies do this now. I had a hip replaced 2 years ago, on the bill it said that my payment was $1,000, and that the insurance would pay $24,000 and that the hospital would accept the $25,000 as payment in full. It also said that the care would have cost me $49,000 dollars if I hadn’t had insurance.

So, they are, in effect, sticking the uninsured with higher bills to make up for the insureds’ lower payment for treatment. For the uninsured that can’t pay, that payment goes back on the taxpayer (all of us).

I was staying in Canada, with my brother. I had health care while I was there and it was top-notch, no doubt about it. Too bad you don’t know what you’re talking about, Sarge.

Wrong, Mike. They will try to bill you, and maybe even sue you. You need to take your meds.

@Sarge57:

I’ve heard Australians say otherwise; that we are insane for having the for-profit insurance system we have, and they’ve shared their parallel awful experiences while stuck in the American system.

People today in America also experience their problems becoming acute while 1) They delay going to doctors when they first notice symptoms, because they are uninsured or underinsured and can’t afford the deductible 2) insurance companies flat out deny coverage even when people have faithfully been paying expensive premiums for that expected coverage. This is what we are fixing. It makes no sense to hold up scary “wait times” as the thing to fear, when people are already living the realities of delayed, denied, health care AND potential financial ruin to look forward to just to survive an unexpected episode of something.

I’ve never once been able to make a non-critical appointment with my Primary or OB-G, having to wait less than 2-6 weeks for it. I fail to see how my private for-profit middle man insurance company has any bearing or influence whatsoever on my getting that speedy appointment with the ” in-network ” doctor they mandate I must see.

It really does boil down to people fearing that if more people get the health care they need and should have been getting all along, you will be personally inconvenienced, less special somehow, prioritized along with everyone else and not “better than” anyone else, and for that reason, we should continue to leave them out.

The gold-plated health care and retirement packages Congressional Representatives and Senators receive should be stripped away — then maybe they’d get a dose of reality and do something constructive for the rest of us.

I am a science professor at a state university in Michelle Bachman’s district. Most of my students come from her district. A few statements made by students to me in my science classes:
The moon landings were faked by the Commie NASA to steal taxpayer money.
The moon landings could not have happened because the Earth is flat and thus nothing
can orbit the Earth
The moon landings were faked because the rocks ‘brought back’ show ages of about 3-4 billion years old and since the Earth is only about 6,000 years old…it is obvious NASA is lying.
I am going to Hell because I have not been saved!
My guardian angel is going to make sure that I go to hell because I believe in evolution
There is no such thing as global warming because they ‘read it on the internet’
Obama is an illegal President because he was born in Kenya, the Hawaiian officials are
lying because they are all Democrats.

And so it goes up here in the land of snowshoes and idiots…by the way I was born here and
still cannot figure out if there is something in the water or just simple inbreeding!

Congressional testimony shows that health insurance companies are admittedly TARGETING WOMEN WITH BREAST CANCER

[...] [...]

Oh yes, and insurers have done such a great job up until now so why not allow them to continue raping the American people.

The USA is the ONLY developed and western country that does not provide universal healthcare to their people. Their systems are not broken, they do work and none of the people that live in Germany, Holland, France, Canada and many other countries would give it up for private. Screw the insurance companies since they’ve been screwing the American people for decades right along with big pharmacuetical companies and the politicians who have benefits for life. Enough is enough.

It’s time for Michelle Bachman to give up her LIFE-TIME BENEFITS, paid for by ‘THE PEOPLE’.

Congressional testimony shows that insurance companies are admittedly ***TARGETING WOMEN WITH BREAST CANCER*** for the act of “rescission”, where they cancel your insurance after you become sick. They are also targeting victims of lymphoma. Not only that, they are raising prices at nearly 30% a year for small businesses, while reducing benefits. Congressional testimony shows us examples of insurance giants raising rates on one small business 22% in one year, after they only spent 9% of their insurance premiums on health care! What do they do with the other 91%? SPEND IT ON LOBBYING AND MISLEADING ADS

[...] [...]

This price gouging has to end! WALL STREET RUNS HEALTH CARE RIGHT NOW. People are only scared of competition because of the lies the insurance industry has fed to the media.

They are killing our country. Harvard study shows; “62% of personal bankruptcies result from medical costs, 78% of those who went through the bankruptcy process HAD health insurance. The study found that the majority of these people were solidly middle-class before being hit by unexpected medical bills.”

Sarge, you need to look at the facts I posted above. If people don’t have health insurance, it doesn’t mean they expect to be waited on hand and foot, or that they aren’t employed. Also, the VAST majority of people that go bankrupt from medical bills HAD health insurance (78%!).

blaze
Comment posted July 22, 2009 @ 10:53 am

. . . . “By the way… I’m a career firefighter and I’m here to tell you that we are run very well and very efficiently. It’s amazing how “heroes” become goats when the political winds shift.”

Thank you, Blaze, for your service and your support. In my good sized town we have an excellent Fire Department, Police Dept and Parks & Rec. Our county-run library is outstanding throughout the metro area. Our schools are top-notch and envied through the state and I have absolutely no complaints with the postal service. I’d LOVE for my medical insurance to be as efficient as any of these government run agencies.

I could care less about the private insurance market – that industry has gouged and raped the financial life out of people and pretty much has the say in who lives, who dies, who gets care, who doesn’t…whatever!! As far as I’m concerned, I hope the private insurance market goes away, for good!

Sarge 57, Well you have got it all wrong. Yes, medicare and medicade do say how much they will pay for a procedure. This is just like your insurance companies since they enter into an agreement with doctors saying how much they too will pay. If a doctor doesn’t like the terms then they do not participate with the plan be it private insurance or medicare. Medicare is not getting any subsidy from private insurance, nor is private insurance getting any subsidy from medicare. Doctors run their business as they see fit seeing patients through the plans that they want. They are not forced to accept medicare. So it is not socialism as you claim.

So, let me get this straight. Our Coin-gress can subsidize Corn and Soybeans to a level that puts nearly every other vegetable out of the running and the subsequent glut on the world market forced millions of “foreign” growers into bankruptcy and that’s considered “free trade”.

But we try to offer Health to our entire country and it is called “unfair competition”, to the Insurance industry of all things?

The richest, most profitable companies in the US are Oil giants, Pharma Giants, Agribusiness Giants and War-machine manufacturers. What do they all have in common?

Answer- Govt subsidies.

But healthcare?

They say let the people “Compete”.
Is this Rome?

Wars yes, Medicine no? What kind of country have we been turned into?

Perhaps Dennis Kucinich should have actually been allowed to run for President.

One simple question
Why can’t (A U.S. Citizen) get the same health care as my Senators, my federal representatives, or ANY other Federal employee?

Having worked for Doctors, Public Health, and Social Security Disability Determination, I’ve seen it from both sides, (not to mention as a consumer).

Took classes taught by representatives of the insurance companies. First class, first words our og the reps mouth were ” REMEMBER INSURANCE DOMPANIES ARE NOT HERE TO HELP PEOPLE, THEY ARE HERE TO MAKE MONEY.”

After dealing with them from several positions I can only agree with him.

I have seen BCBS deny a 10 year old a bone marrow transplant. Delayed it until it was to late.

In Michigan BCBS paid Doctors fees according to the year the Dr. “joined”. Two of the Dr’s I worked for (surgeons) both did the same surgeries but were paid a different amount.

While at Public Health saw audit that showed BCBS ripped off the state on Medicaid payment (at the time BCBS administered it for the state).

Same Fed audit showed that the Blues owned property in the Bahamas!!! For what ?

I would love to see current audits (if the Government still does audits)

Same deal with Medicare when BCBS administered it for 5 states. Elderly patients would come in OUR office desperate, because Medicare would not pay for surgery. I called the head of Medicare in Chicago and he told me that the 6th floor of the BCBS of Michigan housed liason offices for the Michigan house.

He told me to give the patient’s their Represenative’s phone number and for them to call and complain.

EACH AND EVERY TIME THAT HAPPENED — THE CLAIM WAS THEN PAID.

We the people had better wise up and not fall for the scare tactics of the Insurance Corporations and Big Pharma. They are spending millions to defeat the public option. It doesn’t take a rocket scientest to figure out why.

Sarge57 ~ are you living under a rock or what?

The insurance companies raise premiums every year. My premium went up 20% last year. I told my insurance agent where to put that premium increase, where the sun don’t shine! I’ll consider public option anyday over the existing insurance scam. Talk about sharks. They live in the same pool as BANKS!

Michelle Bachmann is an embarrassment to Minnesota. I am a minnesotan & many of us are truly ashamed of having a representative of our state being the butt of late-night comedians. But she represents a district that is full of rich republicans just like she is, who don’t give a damn how assinine she appears, as long as she votes with them on the few issues they care about. I don’t think we can get rid of her. The last time around she had made such a donkey of herself that many out-of-staters sent her dem opponent a ton of money to beat her, only for him to be defeated by her insane constituents. Even prayer hasn’t helped. So what are we goin’ ta do? You tell me!

It not socialized medicine. It is socialized insurance. Gee, given the fact that insurance companies are 30% of the cost of health care, it would seem an easy way to reduce costs. That is why they can’t compete with government. Government would be 5%. Think of all the profit they would lose. I guess their next agreement will be increased unemployment by insurance company personnel….

mike, what does the hennepin county medical center have to do with this?

sarge 57 says… I would appreciate it if the forum consisted of expressing differing views rather than the immature personal attacks…

you might have made your point better without calling the attacks (and presumably those making them) immature.

oh and i disagree with you on this topic for all the reasons previously cited herein by others.

Bachmann, Kline oppose public option because it’s ‘cheaper’…

If you’re trying to dissuade someone from buying something, it’s best not to tell them it’s the cheaper option. But that’s the strategy behind some GOP opposition to the “public option” contained in the healthcare reform efforts currently b…

Christopher
Comment posted July 21, 2009 @ 4:20 PM
If you subsidize something and give it away for free, I suppose that would be considered “cheaper,” as long as you’re not the one who’s paying the bill.

Taking the bus for $1.00 is “cheaper” than driving. In terms of actual costs it isn’t, though, is it? Therein lies only part of the problem.
==

Actually in terms of actual costs per passenger, the bus option *is* often cheaper.

Let’s say that you use a car used only for going to work, one that costs $300 a month to maintain, and $200 in fuel costs.

You transport, say 5 people in a car pool. The cost per person is $100 a month.

Now consider that you have a bus provided by the company which picks up 75 people in your area. The costs go up. Let’s say $1500 a month to maintain and $1500 a month in fuel. The cost per person is $40 a month.

Clearly there is a limit to the size of the bus and how many it can pick up, but the cost per person definitely goes down.

And I am not talking of indirect savings like the parking spots, the emissions, the congestion…

You are correct that if the government subsidizes it (a company cannot) and then makes everybody in the area chip in for half the costs to make your cost $20 a month, it is part of the problem. But there is efficiency in numbers.

But given that Republicans always claim that government is inefficient, this should be an easy one. For those customers that cannot be covered by private parties, let the government take it over. Surely a private company can outperform an inefficient govt., right?

Once again the comments against me are personal and rude. Most are not backed up by almost any facts. I lived in Australia and my wife is a native Australian. She tells me often how happy she is to be here in the US so she can get good health care. Most of the comments I have read are that the writers have known someone who said the universal health care was so good. Check the hospitals in the border cities with Canada and find out how many Canadians are coming here so they can get health care in a timely manner.And to finalize my comments, someone stated that I called someone immature. I stated their attacks were immature not the person. If I tell one joke it doesn’t make me a comedian. think that one over. God bless!

How does this moron keep getting elected?

It really does boil down to people fearing that if more people get the health care they need and should have been getting all along, you will be personally inconvenienced, less special somehow, prioritized along with everyone else and not “better than” anyone else, and for that reason, we should continue to leave them out.

==

No it really boils down to me not wanting to pay for people who CHOSE not to have health insurance. If you CHOSE not to cover your health, take the consequences; don’t come to me saying “oops, I should not have done this, now you pay for my mistake”

To make me pay for your CHOICE is socialism, and not what America is about!!!

[...] [...]

Wow, you mean the publicly funded health care that Bachmann receives is 30-40% less than what I’m paying. Considering politicians health care is called the best in America, sign me up. My kids could sure use the better health care and their college fund could sure use the savings.

sarge57 please re-read my previous post.

I read your post the first time. You presume I thought the person also was immature. I don’t know enough to make that claim. I do know the comments were immature.Have a blessed day!

Mike says

No it really boils down to me not wanting to pay for people who CHOSE not to have health insurance. If you CHOSE not to cover your health, take the consequences; don’t come to me saying “oops, I should not have done this, now you pay for my mistake”
===

Well, you already ARE paying for it. When the uninsured get sick, they go to the ER. ER services cannot be denied, and are the most expensive.

Who pays the costs? The hospital? The insurance companies?

No. They are passed on to you, in your premiums, the one who pays it.

It is one thing to claim that the current proposals for health care reform are flawed. It is another to say that health care reform is not necessary.

===
To make me pay for your CHOICE is socialism, and not what America is about!!!
===

Nope, that is not socialism, and you are not paying for my choice. Unless of course you were educated by Joe the Plumber. In which case, health-care is the least of your problems. Education would be a more pressing problem.

Fortunately, there are ways you can get up to speed on this. For starters, look up what socialism entails:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

The best example of socialism in America is the state of Alaska. The state controls the means of production of energy and disburses a check to its people.

So Alaska is not part of America? Since when? Did Todd and Sarah succeed in seceding from the Union?

information from a Lewin Group report (the Lewin Group is wholly owned by UnitedHealth Group! Are you crazy Bachmann?!

Oh yeah, that’s right, you are!

sarge— just pointing out that you were making a personal comment in a post about sticking to the topic without making personal comments. peace.

Well, if Bachmann really does not want government to run her health-care, she should give it up, and get it through a private company.

You do know that her health-care is government run, in the same manner that the one for the rest of us will be available as an option, don’t you?

Well if the government plan doesn’t need to follow private company rules then of course it will be cheaper. Government doesn’t need to raise capital, they just get it from the treasury when needed or have the FRB print it.

A Federal insurance business would not:

Pay income tax
Pay State tax
Pay local tax
Pay liability insurance (due to Federal immunity protection of suits)
State Premium tax
Set aside reserve/surplus money as required under State insurance laws
Federal government doesn’t need to raise capital, they just raise taxes
Not sure but I think the Federal government doesn’t normally pay for postage
The treasury department will be the plans own little accounts receivable department (paid for by taxpayers)

The above are just a few reasons that a Federal Plan is not a competitor but uses the benefit of Federal monopoly of writing rules that benefit the Federal plan. There is no doubt that the $billions and $billions of costs to do business — that are required by private companies — costs that the Federal plan opts out of — will put the private companies out of business.

Currently with private companies all of the credits for taxes and fees go to benefit State and local governments, the local people. If the insurance companies go under the State and local governments will need to raise taxes to make up the losses. Then the taxes / fees that were once collected, that were credits on the State ledger will become a debit on the State ledger.

I know it is difficult for the entertainment tonight generation to grasp financial things but give it a try. You are being fooled by your elected leaders.

Here is another fault in the Bill………….

I’m still reading the Health Bill. I have not found anything to prevent someone from gaming the system. If all people must be given insurance (no pre-existing conditions), I have yet to see anything to prevent moral hazard.

Example: If a family of 4 have an income of $40,000 a year, if they choose not to buy insurance (public or private) they would get an 8% tax fine. That would be a $3,200 tax fine.

Now I doubt if even a public plan can offer to cover a family of 4 for $3,200 a year. So the above person would make out by just paying a fine. When they get the cancer diagnosis, they go to (public or private) insurance and the insurance plan will need to pay out a possible $100,000 or more. Hm?

I’ve done some quoting on the Swiss site that gives quotes if you are a Swiss resident. I can tell you that a family of three costs from 7,886.40 CHF to 14,808.00 CHF a year ($300 ded. per incident). Quotes are based on living near Geneva. IF I want a hospital covered outside my Canton (like our States) or want a choice such as doctor, you need to add on supplemental insurance. Many Swiss people pay the “top up” supplementary insurance.

Or better yet, if you are someone living under the radar, the drug dealer, the illegal alien, etc. you wouldn’t even be paying a fine. So when they get the cancer diagnosis, they waltz in to an insurance company, plop down a months premium and say…..start paying my bills.

You starting to get the picture of how the Bill is a FUBAR?

In my State the budget has yet to be passed. State workers are required to work for no pay. So they work for no money. Flip side…..

Welfare checks and food stamps are still going out.

So ………..

People working get no money
People not working get money

This country is flipped out and deserves to continue on to its financial disaster.

Well SOMEBODY knows hoe to cut and paste.

When I was living in the US it took me two years to pay off the costs of my hysterectomy and that was with “good” insurance. I am in Canada working now. I did not have to pay one cent for my gall bladder removal and the surgery was done immediately. I’m not sure I can afford to return to the US with the health care situation remaining as it is. Free health care as I approach retirement is nothing to sneeze at….or give up.

Insurance companies have nothing to do with health care. They are similar to casinos they offer a wager (witch is your health care) and as in casinos the house almost always wins. Witch means YOU LOSE. DEAD, or BANKRUPT

…. and from where is Rep. Bachman getting her numbers showing that folks will lose insurance they have now?

From a “research” firm owned by own of the biggest Hospital Corporations in the United States.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/22/AR2009072202216_2.html?hpid=topnews

If you don’t believe me, check out the article about it in the Washington Post.
Numbers can be made to say anything.

We can afford to pay 30% profit margins on the present system. We can afford to fund 2 illegal wars. We can afford to build a kingdom in Iraq formerly known as the Iraq Embassy. We can afford to continue the present no competative big pharm contracts. We cant afford to provide a basic health coverage to all citizens? Can you afford to continue the status quo not knowing when your job may go away or not knowing when the insurance company may deny your next claim? Can we afford to prospectively py 50% of your wages in the near future for your present care as predicted at the going rate if increases in costs?

Why do many of us vote against our own best interests whether it be economics, civil rights, basic human rights of others rich or poor, usually poor get the shaft!

We need single payer but a public option is better than the present option. Bring on any government plan and immediately you will see the insurance companies begin an honest competition. If not, let them serve just the wealthy! Let them pay for it also!

Bachman belongs to the Tin Foil Hat club and not of this world! Kline belongs to big business, simple as that! Voters deserve representation and do not receive it from these two! Kline is against anything labor yet hes managed to get himself seated on an important labor board. We can change this and votes these two out of office and this is needed to be done!Research what they do in office and how they vote if you have doubts!

Hey Mike:

I would chose to have insurance, but they won’t insure me. Is my pre-existing condition, which is genetical, my fault? There is nothing I can do about it, but I am not allowed by them to have insurance. What do you suggest I do? I appear to fall into the third category you don’t talk about.

Hahaha, they’re not even trying to claim that public option will cost more or provide sub-par care, it’s literally just “CHANGE IS BAD.”

Wow, the woman is certifiable. I thought people in Texas were slow and crazy, but Minnesota has us beat.

Will this owman ever stop making these inane statements that make her the laughing stock of the nation. Her best cvomment was to try to encourage folks not to cooperate with the census. I sort of supported that idea because the end result may have ended up taking away her House seat. so goooo Bachman. Keep it up.

Once again the uninformed take over a blog. Congresswoman Bachmann has no problem giving the number of people in her home to a census taker. She does have a problem with how the census has been expanded to an unconstitutional invasion of our privacy.I thought the liberals/progressives were against the government interfering in their bedrooms but it is OK for the government to ask you a 40 page survey about what is in your home???????? All of us should be screaming from the mountaintop about the government invasion into our privacy. I would certainly think this is one we can all agree to.

cindkra, stay in Canada because you can help their system march to its final end. You didn’t mention which Province. Why it that? Why doesn’t any of these…I moved to Canada and everything was covered” people ever give the Province. Is it because they are lying or so ignorant to not know that Canadian health systems are based on each Provincial plan.

I beat you were treated as soon as you moved to Canada, correct. It is normally how the story goes. Odd that Canadian government sites show a different story.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/default.aspx

Ontario residents are eligible for provincially funded health coverage (OHIP). To be eligible for Ontario health coverage you must :

•be a Canadian citizen or have immigration status as set out in Ontario’s Health Insurance Act, and
•make your permanent and principal home in Ontario, and
•be physically present in Ontario 153 days in any 12-month period.
OHIP coverage normally becomes effective three months after the date you establish residency in Ontario. The ministry strongly encourages new and returning residents to purchase private health insurance in case you become ill during the OHIP waiting period.

But maybe instead of going east fro you went to Manitoba

http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/mhsip/#eligible

Am I eligible for coverage?

To be eligible for Manitoba Health coverage you must:

* Be a Canadian citizen or have Immigration status as outlined in The Health Services Insurance Act
* Establish a permanent residence in Manitoba, and
* Reside (physically) in Manitoba six months in a calendar year

The following are not eligible for coverage:

* tourists
* transients
* visitors
* students other than Manitoba residents
* Students temporarily absent from other countries or other provinces and territories in Canada to attend educational institutions in Manitoba are not eligible for registration with the Manitoba Health Plan.

But cindkra tells us it was done immediately. You freak’in children can’t even lie well. Or to get immediate care, did you commit some type of fraud?

You will go a long way in telling your story of no deductible or co-insurance IF you tell us which Province gave the immediate care without following the eligibility list.

sueinmn said “We can afford to pay 30% profit margins on the present system.”

Please give me a link and not just the current, never ending propaganda to that number. I will then give you CBO reports and investment reports to make you blush at how ignorant you are of the the numbers.

I was ran an investment firm for over twenty years and did research on insurance companies for clients that wanted a safe stock. Insurance companies are not normally considered a growth stock.
P&C compay profit is around 3%
Health insurance companies are as low as .06% up to around 3%.
I get my information from 10Q and10K SEC reporting and not some HuffPo or Dkoz blog. Maybe you would like to be at the helm of this:

This is for a Blues plan, what would you do if you were losing $1 million a day?

“The year before, medical costs had overwhelmed underwriting revenues, creating losses of about $1 million per day.

Gray developed a three-year plan to address these issues and restore operations to profitability by 2000. Last year, the timetable met, the now-$9 billion company recorded a 1.7 percent operating profit margin, far above the 0.6 percent industry average cited by Weiss.” Weiss is a research firm and don’t care if a company is rep or Dem. They only tell if the company is making or losing money.

Now I am not even going to try to tell the sheep how Medicare fools you with their low admin claim. Just a small bit, Medicare does not consider the cost to adjudicate each claim. Since most of the Medicare claims are high claims (elderly have high claims) Medicare considers that it costs less to manage that claim. In other words what they say is this:

If it takes 2 hours of labor ($50 an hour rate) to do claim A: $100 claim
If it takes 2 hours of labor ($50 an hour rate)to do claim B: $50,000 claim

In the world of Medicare (only government can get away with this kind of accounting) in the world of Medicare even though both claims took $100 of labor, Medicare would assign a lower admin ratio to the $50,000 claim.

The government has been using this shady accounting throughout many of their various functions and I am sick of it. Stop being a sheep and investigate what the elected ones tell you.

Medicare and Medicaid have minimal fraud units. Gee it would also raise their proudly presented low admin cost. Instead they let fraud cost taxpayers $$$$$$$. Search about it. Here is one little bit:

http://beltway.blips.com/story/dehaven_bigger_than_madoff/

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTIyMTUxM2FkOTA4YmVkYzdlZGE3ODhkMzBiZDRkNDQ=

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTIyMTUxM2FkOTA4YmVkYzdlZGE3ODhkMzBiZDRkNDQ=

[...] [...]

Medicare is going broke…why the kool-aid drinkers keep using it as a example of how Gov health care works is beyond me…I guess they are fooling fellow kool-aid drinker.

So how is the hopey/changey thing working for ya?

blacknblue

I live in BC. I did not mention it because it was not material to the point I was making.

I was working at the time of my surgery under a legal work permit.
My health care benefits started within 90 days of arriving here. The surgery was 2 years after my arrival.

I did not come here to get benefits. I was recruited to work here.

As I said, I had “good” health insurance in the US.
I am simply saying that I did not have to pay any costs out of pocket here as opposed to having to pay off medical bills over two years in the States.

Is this health care “free”? No, of course not. We do pay taxes to support it.

I did not have to commit “fraud” to get the surgery, nor did I jump any lines. It was medically necessary to have it done immediately because of an acutely infected gallbladder.

Neither surgery, here or there, was elective.

The MATERIAL difference is what I had to pay out of pocket in both cases and what the financial price was comparatively over time, i.e., nothing here – two years of paying off debt there.

Oh and for the record, I am a Registered Nurse in a specialized critical care unit as I was also in the US.

I am well aware of the differences in health care delivery in Canada and the US. I have been in this profession for 20 yrs., split evenly between the two countries.

I do inform the Canadians with whom I work of their misconceptions of health care delivery in the US and they do abound but, generally, I do not call them “liars” or “children” or resort to personal attacks when they do not agree with my view of the world.

Thanks for your passionate discourse but no thanks for the attacks on my beliefs, experiences or character.

Note: Insurance is not a means to get someone else to pay your large bills for a small fee, unless you happen to be the one that gets real sick. Insurance is a means by which a third party evaluates the risk of costs that you pose to a large(r) group and charging you an amount in balance with that risk. On the whole then the total spent by the insurer to pay for your care is close to what they recieve in premiums; yes, plus a profit. Profit is in and of itself not a dirty word. When you look at the profits of the publicly traded insusres the margin they make is a large number in pure dollars but small as a percentage of the volume of money they manage in this way. (7-9% historically). For anyone to believe that simply by removing this layer alone that they will see 30-40% savings in not rational.

Instead you have to take the next step in that process. Attack the “profits” of the providers. Another word for profit is wages. Appropriate today because this is the day that minimum wage rises. Higher “profits” for the lowest amung us. Doctors make more than minumum wage to be sure, but they also represent some of the best of us in terms of intelectual and educational performance. One might get an entry level job in fast food at 16, but it takes many years of expensive education to become an entry level doctor. A doctor then spends 8-12 years paying tuition and their own cost of living while at the same time making next to nothing in internships and fellowships that get them certified to practice medicine. For a person capable of succeeding in medicine there are many other options, so something some incentive has to exist beyond pure altruism to get them to defer the possible benifits available to them in other profesions and instead spent 8-12 grueling years in study. That incentive at ppresent is that the salary and personal rewards of helping people are high at the end of that education. In the grand scheme of things not quite so high except for the most highly specialized and longest educated.

Also high are the costs to insure themselves against malpractice. Malpractice has a nice evil ring to it. Lawyers have done an excellent job of making it seem so. So after all the education and all of the study these doctors essentially go to work on the single most complex machine on the planet, a living organism with self awareness. Complex organisms have complex problems and if anything goes other than expected…no matter ho minor the end result, a patient and lawyer are there with hand out looking for “compensation”. Death, disfigurment, perminent injury done by a doctor is one thing. Booboo mitigation is completely another. Acknowlege and address this issue and you can save just as much as you will taking out the insurance companies.

Next is the medical suppliers and the federal regulation to use specific items in treatment. Tyco profits are almost all based on the difference between the real cost of making items and the the price charge to consumers

You can’t then just focus on insusrers as the bad guys. Their end of things is pretty stright forward. The other things have to be addressed as well with a recognition that the dirty “profits” you despise are for someone just a paycheck.

Health care is a right, and you’d better get used to it. It says so in the Bill of Rights. “Life, liberty, free education, free food, free health care, free housing, green automobiles and all happiness.” NOT!

Where has universal health care been all these two hundred years?

[...] Reps. Michele Bachmann and John Kline (both Republicans) say they oppose the formation of a public option because it would be…cheaper.  That is, it will be cheaper…than the insurance that is [...]

tanglewood has this right, it’s all about our empty-headed high school crushes that turned out to do more in life than we did. remember that one time in band camp .. ..

all i can say is a govt run health care without private options, is like the post office without UPS or Federal Express. Everybody better get a Snickers.

Insurance companies are leeches that run a pyramid scam.
Good riddance to bad garbage.

The American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association support bipartisan healthcare reform and I’m glad they are providing constructive input to improve the status quo and prevent costs from spiraling out of control.

[...] and “Approximately 114 million Americans are expected to leave private health insurance. Why? Their employers will drop the insurance because the taxpayer-subsidized plan will be 30 to 40 percent cheaper.” —Michele Bachmann accidentally making the case for the public option [...]

[...] Bachmann, Kline oppose public option because it’s ‘cheaper’, Minnesota Independent [...]

[...] The real Republican fear, as their Freudian slips show, is that a public option will be popular and serve consumers better than private insurers. After all, these are the people who have long said government can’t do [...]