Minneapolis pastor: Tornado was a warning to Lutherans on gay inclusion

And here I thought it was because Brett Favre signed with the Vikings.

Isn’t this the same clown who blamed the collapse of the 35W Bridge on the homosexuals as well? Oh no, wait that was Fred Phelps. So now we’ve got our own little Phelps wannabe right here in RIver City.

I told my wife this exact thing would happen last night. This is blasphemy. Blaming the Lord for something, or going to war in the name of the Lord is BLASPHEMY. According to the nuts who believe this mythology. How predictable these children are. OOH. Jesus Christ controls the wind. It’s like using the word Nazi. It’s just too convenient for these simple minded rubes to use something they really have no clue about.

Does Jesus control the wind coming from John Piper?

Same on John Piper, pastor at Minneapolis’ Bethlehem Baptist Church!
How judgemental and arrogant to use your trusted appointment to preach hate and division.
The logs in your eyes have blinded you sir. No wonder people are leaving religion in droves. May Jesus forgive you and warm that cold heart of yours. I suggest therapy for your homophobia.

You have got to be kidding. As someone who wholeheartedly believes in following the lead of Jesus, let me say, this does not represent my opinions at all. In my opinion, THIS promotes behaviors that lead to destruction. We, in all denominations, all people of faith who are striving humbly and wholeheartedly to discern for ourselves what is best and right and true, and who are ALL earnestly trying to interpret the Bible and what it means, for us and for the early church, all seem to come to different conclusions about what the “correct” interpretation is. But, we must acknowledge that we all are equally striving, and can all equally be wrong in our interpretation, as another person might be right. As Paul says, let us not argue about who we are following, but rather acknowledge that we are all striving to follow the example and teachings of Jesus, and let us not spend our energy judging and condemning one another. Again, as Paul says, if one person is convicted about eating meat which has been offered to idols when another believer is not bothered by it, then let’s not cause each other to stumble, but let’s also not judge each other for our difference of conviction. Let’s work together, and tear down these walls of dissention, instead of spending our precious time in divisiveness. Love is the core of Jesus’ message and life; that’s the example I want to follow.

Shame on John Piper, pastor at Minneapolis’ Bethlehem Baptist Church!
How judgemental and arrogant to use your trusted appointment to preach hate and division.
The logs in your eyes have blinded you sir. No wonder people are leaving religion in droves. May Jesus forgive you and warm that cold heart of yours. I suggest therapy for your homophobia.

And here I thought all that blowing was caused by Larry Craig.

If God is all powerful, why didn’t he stop the vote? Why not kill a few of the “yes” voters? Pretty poor planning by an omnipotent being, if you ask me.

So, if Jesus controls tornadoes and regularly kills Americans in God-fearing states such as Oklahoma and Kansas, and destroys the homes and livelihoods of countless others, what is their punishment, Mr Piper? Actually, it’s just another sign of the pathological, primitive and selective belief in mythology that is then used to justify bigotry and hatred. John Piper: you’re a disgrace to your religion, to your country, and the to evolved human brain.

Perhaps – because the tornado took no lives (last i heard anyway), Jesus in fact moderated the effect of the tornado.

So instead of hitting the Convention Center, collapsing it and killing all those sinners, instead Jesus saved that faithful flock from the tornado because they’re finally understanding his message of acceptance and unconditional love by embracing those who’s human love involves others of the same sex.

Just a thought of course

[...] like I’m one of those wacky religious right nutso now. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Saturday Recap – Comic-Con ReportSuspected [...]

Jesus must have been really ticked off at trees and branches. Maybe still miffed about the whole crucifixion thing?

Maybe instead of riduling everybody…on either side…we should pull together and pray. Does anybody every wonder that the cause of most of our issues/concerns in this country stem from the fact that everybody gets torn down and beat for one reason or another (pro/con, right wing/left wing, republican/democrat)???

Surely John Piper will burn in Hell for all eternity.

As will anyone who tries to keep those who seek God away from Him.

Morality indeed, Heterosexuals. Morality indeed.

God bless Pastor John Piper!

God is Love
A Letter to My Gay & Lesbian Children:

I am so sorry that those who present themselves as followers of me and my teachings seemingly do not understand me or my teachings at all.

I am sorry that I left my Gay creations in the hands of a group that would do such vile and disgusting things to you, and in MY name, no less.

I am sorry that I left ANYTHING in the hands of the Heterosexual to ‘protect.’ ESPECIALLY the children. For I do not see anyone on Earth protecting anything other than their wallets.

I am sorry that people who call themselves my followers do anything BUT follow my teachings. Instead, choosing to abuse me AND my Gay creations. For what you do to the least of my people, you also do unto me.

Mostly, I am sorry that my placement of Gay & Lesbian children upon this earth, which was meant to teach human beings how to love each other, has turned into such pain and abuse for those Gay & Lesbian children.

But do not fear. For I am watching. And I am listening. And I know what is in each and every person’s heart as surely as I know how many hairs are on your heads.

And I am sorry. And I apologize for the abuse that you have suffered at the hands of Heterosexuals. That was never my intention. For I am a God of Love. And any human being who feels anything but love for their fellow man is surely not a human being who lives their life for me at all. And they will answer directly to me for that.

I am sorry for the abuse. The degradation. The murders. The rapes. I am sorry for all of it and apologize to my Gay & Lesbian children for the abuse you have endured and continue to endure at the hands of the Heterosexuals who created you.

I apologize FOR them. And I forgive them, as my Gay & Lesbian children must forgive them, as well.

So again, to my Gay & Lesbian children: I am sorry. And I love you. They may take away your rights. They may abuse and torture and murder you. But they will NEVER take away my love for you. For I created you in my own image. And I love you. Please believe that.

Love,
God

Amen to John Piper for being brave enough to draw the parallel between the tornado in Minneapolis and the Lutheran conference. Yes, God does control the wind. He is sovereign. We may not know why God does what he does, but he certainly can send a tornado to a church at the exact time they were to discuss human sexuality. God and his laws are never changing. Who are we to say the Bible is ancient and no longer relative? Man changes and turns away. God does not.

Valerie says “God and his laws are never changing.”

What I believe you MEANT to say is that for Gay & Lesbian Human Beings, God and his laws are never changing.

For Heterosexuals, God and his laws are CONSTANTLY changing. If they weren’t, Heterosexuals would have no choice but to stone each other to death. If you or your daughters aren’t virgins when married – STONED TO DEATH. Also, where are your menstruation huts these days? God commands dirty, unclean women to carry out their cycles in such huts. Adultery? Yup, you guessed it – stoned to death. I could go on and on and on, but I won’t, because you won’t listen, but don’t you find it a bit ridiculous that Heterosexuals have abandoned all biblical law as it pertains to THEM? I mean, y’all aren’t even TRYING to hide that fact. Y’all just do it right out in the open. As if your activities aren’t observable by the rest of the world.

You are only trying to ‘uphold’ God’s ‘law’ as it pertains to the Gay people you created. Heterosexuals have abandoned all laws of the bible as it pertains to THEIR sexuality. Jeez. Christians these days act as if they live in an alternate world where THEIR vile and disgusting behaviors aren’t observed by the rest of the world.

Typical Christian, Valerie. Proving daily that the only DECENT one of you died on the cross. Where are your morals, Valerie? Where are they? Cuz they aren’t on display here.

Whoever “Bill” is … I want to thank him for “his letter from God” … may I add my Amen… I just don’t understand the John Pipers of this world.

In the Lord’s Prayer, it states “…Thy will be done”. Not our will–it’s His will. If you believe that He could strike with a tornado an ELCA Church for considering home-sexual clergy, then great. I agree and think it’s good to hear that your faith is that strong, also. I understand people can be “born” homosexual due to problems in the womb, but, does that mean they should continue “being” homo-sexual? People can also be born as addicts. Does that mean they should continue “doing drugs”? Hence, the bible states that clergy should not be drunkards (or in today’s age, meth/crack addicts). I wonder if the ELCA will want to “relax” their stance on clergy that are drunkards (and meth/crack addicts), also. Can you imagine a pastor trying to give a sermon while on crack or meth? A sin is a sin and wrong is wrong.

To all observers: please do not be surprised that people under the same umbrella of a religion (namely Christianity) disagree. True there are some individuals that are too hard hearted, and/or struggle with anything that veers from the interpretations of scripture they’ve been taught all their lives. Yes there are some who over simplify Jesus’ call to love as a blanket approval of all conduct.
Many of us are struggling to distinguish what is right here. God’s love for all people is not in question, how God may wish to challenge our instincts is. Of course the Gay debate over-emphasizes one small theological battle over what is right. I mostly hope we can get on to addressing the inadequately challenged sins of humanity, the behaviors that are not villainized — but should be.
Relgion is full of problems, Jesus is a different story.

Or perhaps it was a gentle warning of exactly the opposite — “Pass that damn gay doctrinal change already and allow my gay pastors to be gay”. It easily could be interpreted that way as well.

Or maybe it was just the random action of the universe happening again. Just sayin.

Bill made his best point of all with his reply to Valerie. We’ve run into an issue where there is not enough mass appeal for the masses to look the other way as they do with so many other behaviors. But there is a catch, something I get hung up on. Very few people openly argue, in the church, that rampant greed is fine, or that open racism is swell, or that violent abuse is justifiable, or even that self abuse is okay. See the difference here is whether homosexuality belongs in the category of things we agree are wrong, or not. Maybe we’d be better off as a church if we could agree that homosexual relations are forbidden. (Keeping in mind that no Christian should be able to argue that this means automatic damnation for anyone.) But if we agree that homosexuality is actually fine with God, then must we call into question whether or not God approves of the other sins listed above? That’s what’s at issue, people are afraid that re-examining how we understand sexuality will mean all otherwise assumed evils are up for debate. That, and many people just cant’ get their head around homosexuality, so it’s easy to villainize what you can’t relate to. I’ve had to face that reality in myself.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Out of Prison.

Not for long, it appears.

Well Steve, I guess we are ALL going to hell, huh???

“Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Steve, you’ve just named every single human being that ever walked the face of the earth.

See you in Hell, I guess. At least all your friends will be there!

In having God control the wind, John Piper is following a tenet of natural theology and it’s modern day manifestation, intelligent design. Indeed if God, or an intelligent being, controls nature then the forces of nature cause nothing and the need to study and understand science is eliminated or, at least, diminished. Of course, insurance policies sometimes still refer to “acts of God.”

I suspect some who object to Piper’s comments as I do, support the teaching of intelligent design in biology classes, which I don’t.

You can bet if it were a cloudy, rainy day and that at 2:00 PM the clouds opened over the convention center, the sun shown down brightly and a rainbow had appeared, there would have been celebrating and acclamation in Minneapolis. Everyone around the convention center would have been dancing and talking excitedly. But that didn’t happen, did it?

And Jesus said, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34

“None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” Romans 3: 10-12

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law… the righteousness of God through faith for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Romans 3: 21-24

Ephesians 2:8; Romans 9: 16; Matthew 7:17-18; Matthew 18:6; Matthew 10: 32 – 42

Not saying I have the answer, still not sure what should be most lifted up. I’m just saying, and trying to show with scripture, it’s complicated. What’s the bigger deal — that choosing one way may lead us further down a slippery slope, or that choosing another way sets some people free to do ministry who can and will?

So now C. Eric is suggesting that ‘the religious’ try and agree that Gay & Lesbian people are OK, just as long as they live loveless, sexless lives?

What an arrogant, ignorant man you are.

God loves his creations as HE created them to be, not as Heterosexuals WISH they were. And the bible was written by MEN, not by God. We know this as fact. It is YOU, C. Eric, that needs to work on your character flaws. Your statement is perhaps the biggest load of crap ever. Sure, Gay & Lesbian people should live loveless, sexless lives to appease the Heterosexuals who haven’t the inclination for reality based living and thinking. Um, OK.

You know, for a species so very capable of creating Gay & Lesbian children, you Heterosexuals have sure learned fuck all about how to love and care for your very own Gay & Lesbian offspring.

If you think that this does not make Jesus Christ weep, you are sadly sadly mistaken.

Everyone go read the good Samaritan story again. Luke 10: 25 – 37

About what does Jesus seem most preoccupied?
Okay I grant that this may not satisfy those who want an answer to the specific question: are Christians free to practice a homosexual sexuality?
But I do think it gets to wether that’s the biggest deal on Jesus’ agenda — and whether or not Jesus would rather have anyone on the team who’s willing to do the work of the Kingdom: visiting the imprisoned, caring for the sick, etc. (Matthew 25: 35-46)

Not sure where you got that Bill. I thought we were more on the same page than that.

Hmm… God must favor me, because I’ve been 110% homo for more than five decades and no tornado has ever visited my house.

Ah, Bill, you didn’t catch the tongue-in-cheek tone where I said “maybe we’d be better off…” Keep it all in context.

Oh, God sent the tornado to warn against tolerating gays. That must be why it hit a church instead of the Gay 90′s.

@ C. ERIC:

C. Eric, I simply believe that it is time for Christians to stop the abuse of God and of their Gay creations. Or continue it, but at least make it clear that God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit has never and WOULD never condone the type of behavior that Heterosexuals have tortured the Gay children THAT YOU YOURSELVES CREATED with. You want to hate? Feel free. YOU have to live with that hate in your heart. Not US. But at least be honest about it. Take responsibility for your own bigotry. But presenting that bigotry as God? I think not. And neither does He.

So when is enough enough? Your Gay children are killing themselves left and right. And you do nothing. Your Gay children are being abused in schools. Not only by other youngsters, but by faculty as well. And you do nothing. So I ask you, C. Eric, to please tell me all about Christian morality and about ‘protecting the children.’ Because I certainly see no morals OR protection.

Christians are destroying people’s lives. And destroying people’s families. And using God to justify it. And there exists NO human being on the face of this earth who does not know in their heart that this is wrong. And evil. Not to mention illegal. And yet, you do nothing.

Christians are committing crimes against humanity. Against their very own Gay children. And they are demanding that Government particiapte in this dispicable behavior as well. God would admonish that and you know it.

I only hope that one day you will deserve the children that you have been blessed to have in your care. Whether they are Gay children or straight children.

Christians have absolutely NO idea the amount of hurt. The amount of pain. The amount of despair that you have caused others. The amount of Gay children killing themselves that YOU have caused. Their BLOOD is on YOUR hands, folks.

And if you think that you will not answer to HIM for this, I can only pray that God has mercy on your souls.

You folks are damaging, abusing, murdering, raping and torturing living, breathing human beings that YOU YOURSELVES created. And you are doing NOTHING to stop it. And you are putting God’s stamp of approval on it Yet you have the nerveto call yourselves followers of Christ, when in reality you are lucky that he hasn’t struck you dead for what you have done to millions of Gay people.

I pray for you ALL to know the TRUE love of Jesus Christ. And until you right this wrong, you never will.

I’m sorry, the tornado was all my fault. I was doing a rain dance to Zeus last night. Long story short, I did the wrong steps and instead of getting just a few sprinkles in the Twin Cities, I guess I caused tornado. Sorry to everybody for the incovenience. I would suggest sacrificing two turtledoves or a partridge in a pear tree if you were spared. No sense pissing Zeus off again! His temper isn’t as bad as Jehovah’s, but it’s good not to honk-off any diety with anger issues.

Silly pastor, the tornado was god’s warning because Lutherans aren’t moving fast enough!

Didn’t anyone notice that he said that God sends these things as a warning to ALL of us? He isn’t targeting anyone here. If the Lutherans want to ditch explicit Biblical teaching, then they should make up a new name for themselves and shed the name “Christian”, as any of us should if we insist on deviating from Biblical teaching. It’s not up to us to decide which parts of the Bible to obey. We are given the choice to take it or leave it, not take a few parts of it that we like and ignore the rest! Can’t we all just be honest about what we are and are not?

Bill,

You should start to read the Bible instead of the god you have concocted in your mind.

God does love, that is why he holds back his wrath on all sinners. God held back and nobody died. Thanks be to God!

Sex outside of marriage is a sin. That is both for heterosexuals and homosexuals. Marriage is defined as man and woman. Sorry, I didn’t write the Bible. God did. So, if you don’t like it you can wrestle with him.

Those who are violent and unloving toward those who practice sin are wrong. They need to repent and love their neighbors by helping them see the beauty of Jesus Christ.

God Bless

[...] tornado damage photos at The AV Club. Update Update: Lutherans + Gays + Tornado = God is mad, says Minneapolis pastor with direct line to the will of the Creator. And the pastor isn’t [...]

I heart Bill. :) Great words and a powerful message. Funny that the majority of the world believed in Zeus once…and Aphrodite…and sooo many other “power gods.” for hundreds/thousands of years. This one, too, shall pass..and reason and enlightenment take over. PLEASE, make it pass soon!

[...] http://minnesotaindependent.com/42379/minneapolis-pastor-tornado-was-a-warning-to-lutherans-on-gay-i... [...]

A suggestion to all my fellow commentators who may be tired of he cheap riposte, disrespect, ridicule and hostile invective. Their is a God in Israel, there is a Bride of Christ. She subsists in the Roman Catholic Church. Her teaching is definitive, authoritative, clear, truthful, loving, and entirely trustworthy. If you do not believe me, investigate not only the Scriptures but the lives of the canonized Saints. In fact, she teaches what She hears from her husband. She is not sinless, but He is and He is monogamous!

Why have not you “Christians” get it already? If you want to talk about sin, all sins are counted. Do not choose the sin you like or would not like to condemn. Stop the annoying selective Bible quoting already. We believers have no issues with God. It is you who needs to wrestle with him on why there are OTHER definitions of marriage in the Bible, like 1 man to hundreds of women to marriage = no divorce. Or even why your mother or aunt still talks too much when the Bible asks them to just let men control them. Or why slavery is allowed all the way to the time of Revelations. Judge those other sins and pro issues or you will be judged for only speaking on one single sin!

By the way, people do not sin by simply existing and loving. But, people do sin when they invalidate people’s lives and suggest other people’s loves as of a lesser kind or not real. Go figure.

Once again, another religious nutjob trying to find an excuse to push his bigotry, hate, and prejudice in the guise of religion!

Remember Fallwell and Robertson (two other bigots in pastor’s garb) blaming 9/11 on gays, lesbians and abortionists? Remember Roberson’s claim that Orlando would be wiped off the face of the map from a hurricane or even a meteor?

From time immemorial, these pushers of hate and bigotry have used convenient scapegoats to explain disasters. Illnesses were once blamed on a strange old lady, clerics called her a witch and she was murdered to appease “god”; Germany’s economic disaster after WWI was caused by the Jews; the list is endless.

Furthermore… every time TLBGs are scapegoated and targeted by bigots like Pastor Putz here, hate crimes against us increase dramatically, thanks to the ferver and scapegoating made by the bigots, causing their weak-minded minions to act irrationally.

What if John Piper is right? What if this was a small sign of God’s displeasure of the sin that we are so tightly embracing? What if God is truly loving in that He is trying to “wake up” those who are sleeping and living for themselves. If we died today, would we be ready to stand before a holy God?
I would venture to say that if this was God behind the weather (and I have no reason to doubt), then maybe there is a message that he wants to speak to more than just the Lutherans. What about us who call ourselves Christians who are maybe caught in addictive behaviors like pronography or alcohol. What about us who treat our wives or husbands with disrespect and unloving words and actions. What about us who are harboring bitterness or unforgiveness towards someone who has hurt us deeply.
Would we say we are passionately in love with our Father and devoted to Jesus, or do we have a faith that is just a bunch of shallow words and empty works. Are we so in love with Jesus that we would be willing to die for others . . . even our Lutheran homosexual friends? Jesus did . . . Do we live and breath Jesus Christ and love Him with our heart, mind, soul and strength?
Yes, we know that God is loving and wants a deep and personal relationship with all of mankind and He desires that none would perish and this can only happen by coming to Jesus in humility, recognizing our sins and asking for forgiveness . . . no other way.
Yes, the Lutherans are wrong even debating the issue of homosexuality because God already judged that as “sin”. But then He judged a lot of other sins and we all are left with evaluating our own hearts.
How is your heart today?

This is as common an example of excused bigotry as leafs on a tree.
Religion is just what it is, it is just what it orginated from and exactly how it has been used., and what does that line mean? Is it just another anti religious statement or historical fact?
Religion is the organized “use” of a belief and not solely about the belief itself. A person could get into another endless debate about the bible said this or that and would get no where.
Heres the clues of evidence of actual use. While pondering this consider the times of your parents or great grandparents and the era of their times. Discrimination both racial and sexual were commonly expressed, not that all back then were it was just the ways of those times.
Place yourself back some 3000 or more years ago.
People begin to gather into villages then towns and cities, there becomes a need for some sort of codes or laws to give as sense of protection,just has law is now. A creation of a punishment for lifestyles and actions of people that a village or town considers to be intolerable.
Just has law is now.
This is long before the concept of a police force or courts were ever known.
To justify this concept of punishment it uses a common idea of a creator of all things. Religion evolved into the organized use of this concept of a belief.
This is self evident and revealing in its use of moralizations and condemnation of lifestyles,which are in constant contridiction of its own belief of a creator and extremely evident of a form of use of a belief for the purpose of civil control of behavoir.
It is easy to excuse those in the past for their ignorance and fears just has it is easy to understand the culture of the times of your great grand parents.
They knew no better.
There is but one enemy in the world and that enemy has been responsible for more war,hate,crime,injustice,child abuse then any other enemy.
It has a name and its name is “bigotry”
It weapon of choice is religion.
Ignorance in the past was ignorance for lack of knowledge.
In a world of instant messages,instant chat and excess to instant research and cross references to examine, ignorance is no longer excused.
It is willful ignorance.
Believe in a God or not believe in a God, religion is still an organized use of it, still used by far too many to excuse a willful ignorance to conceal a willful bigotry.

Glad I left the ELCA several years ago when I saw the signs. And yes, I did Lutheran seminary.

Don’t you all see this….it is clear as day. The tornado was not expected at all nor forcasted in the new. The top of the Lutheran church was broken by the tornado and hang upside down on its roof. I know it is very hard to connect this two together but surely we can not just ignore it. God’s laws are God’s laws they can not be changed to conform to our ways, desires or needs. I’m not saying i’m holy nor am i saying that God is going to destroy homosexuals, that is for HIm to judge and Him only. But it is what it is, his laws can not be changed to fit our lifestyles. It is clearly spelt out in the Holy Bible that homosexuality is a sin and the wages of sin is death. The Lord is so much merciful and i pray that He has the heart to forgive all of our sins because not one sin is bigger than another. The wages of all sin be it great or small is death. I am a sinner but there is no way i am going to ignore this huge sign when it staring right at me and say that it is ok for there to be Gay leaders of the church. When are we all going to stop looking the other way and stop making excuses for our actions and blame religion and ignore His teachings and laws. I am weak and most of us are but we have no right to ignore this plain signs that He chose to send us. God have mercy on us all.

A few weeks ago a young girl was tragically killed by a lightning strike.

Apparently God deliberately kills people with weather?

Or does that tragic event fall under the “things we don’t understand” category?

Who decides when things are in the “God’s wrath” category and when things are in the “things we don’t understand category”?

Apparently fundamentalist Christians make those judgments.

This godly, True Christian article appeared in my Christian newsletter just after the tsunami hit in SE Asia about 4 years ago. PLEASE READ.

Not since the time of Noah has God used water so effectively to harass sinners and wreak havoc upon those who don’t flatter Him with sufficient regularity. As unsaved, impoverished Hindus toiled in beachside shacks on Christmas instead of exchanging expensive gifts from American department stores to celebrate the Baby Jesus’ Birthday, the Lord was plotting their horrific, briny demise. True Christians know from the Great Flood that one of God’s favorite ways to indiscriminately kill enormous swaths of children is by drowning them and watching them gasp for air and while floating like little discarded Styrofoam cups in the tide. Sometimes, He extends an enormous hand as if He is about to rescue the bobbing tot, only to retract it at the last minute to teach the drowning child a valuable lesson about the ineffable nature of God’s love.

While American Christians have long delighted in the carnage that resulted from the Lord’s irascibility as depicted in countless, grisly episodes in the Old Testament, the present-day flooding in Asia brought home the enormous power of their deity more vividly because of its immediacy. After all, there were no 24-hour news cycles in Samaria. As Pastor Deacon Fred said during Wednesday evening services, “My stars! It really is something to see the glorious purity of God’s Biblical wrath unfold on a 62-inch plasma wide screen in HDTV from the comfort of your own Christian living room. These are certainly amazing times for technology when the Almighty’s insatiable appetite for snatching little infants from their unsaved mothers’ arms are transported directly from the pages of the Bible right into your home theater! We ran plum clean out of popcorn! Praise Jesus!”

The Bible teaches us that God Almighty holds the world record for genocide with Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin arguing over bragging rights for second and third place that are rendered so miniscule by the Lord’s body count they are irrelevant. While a tornado or mudslide is seen as God’s calling card, many Christians have been growing concerned by the less-impressive scale of Heavenly-provoked disasters recently. “I don’t know,” said Sister Inez, “it was almost as if the Lord was getting too old to really stir things up any more. Even them hurricanes that ran through Florida barely killed anyone. I was mighty concerned of late that the Lord was downsizing. And no one wants to worship a god that can’t kill as many folks as that phony Muslim god over there in them sand countries.”

For those of us who are permitted to watch secular television, last week was a heartening reminder that the Lord has not lost his knack for slaughter on an impressive scale. For churchgoers who catch their news on the 700-Club, you will probably hear about this major world event in a few months, so this might come as quite a shock. God used what unsaved Chinese people call a “sashimi” to wipe out over 100,000 yellow unbelievers in one fell splash . What used to take 40 days and 40 nights, the Lord is now able to accomplish in a single day. Church officials agree it is very likely that God picked the last week of December to initiate this massive undertaking because He was far behind in meeting His annual quota to populate Hell.

Landover Baptist Creation Scientists who track the Lord’s killing patterns globally 24/7 predicted earlier this year that God could be getting testy because his Christian troops in Iraq were pansy footing as far as the killing goes, and making Him look bad. “We thought that He was gearing up for something,” said Creation Scientist, Dr. Jonathan Edwards. “A little earthquake here, a hurricane, a few tornadoes, some epidemics – and still no lead story. Well, we all know what happens when the Lord gets bumped out of the front page. The Bible says he is a jealous God. You don’t want to stand in the way of a jealous God, especially one who enjoys killing en-masse just to get the lead story for a few days.”

President Bush has been slow in responding with aid in this tragedy, and rightly so. “The UN has been making sniping remarks about our cloistered President not making a public statement earlier about this so-called tragedy,” said Mrs. Betty Bowers, America’s Best Christian, “but I think his advisers wisely chose to keep him away from microphones when he would have to wrangle with the word, ‘Phuket.’” Further, there were simply not enough Americans affected to warrant our President’s attention. Unlike Florida, no aid relief to Thailand would translate into votes. Besides, President Bush is a True Christian™ and although he will admit this is a great tragedy, he knows the greater tragedy is that 99% of those who perished were unsaved, and according to the Bible, they are being tortured in eternal hellfire right now. “I bet they are missing all that cool water that killed them right about now,” said Mr. Bush in Crawford.

“What saddens me the most,” says Pastor Deacon Fred, “is that that those who perish in countries I can’t pronounce were never able to visit America so they could have met someone who could have led them to Christ. These ignorant folks could have avoided going to Hell and being tortured for eternity after dying such horrible deaths if they would have had the common sense to buy a plane ticket and fly somewhere to hear the Gospel. Instead, those Hindus and Buddhists spent their lives praying to statues of demons with six arms and pointy heads – that sort of behavior aggravates the Lord to no end, and we see where it gets you!”

[...] [...]

Stephen, that is the singularly most ridiculous piece of garbage I have ever read.

You can not possibly be this stupid.

Can you?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be over 50.

God will judge all sin. 2Timothy3:2,4 “For men shall be lovers of their ownselves…” God does not hate homosexuals, God hates the sin of homosexuality. How long will we turn our back on God. The reason we justify what we do is because we love the sin more than we love God, God’s forgiveness is not like a credit card machine where we can ask for it when its convient while we are planning friday nights sin.God requires true repentance, for real forgiveness. If you dont like what happened to this church your going to hate the judgments to come. God would not be a just God if he didn’t judge sin. You can choose to accept CHRISTS SACRAFICE or you will pay for the price yourself. One way or another there will be a judgement.

By your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

I use CharcoalPlus to control my wind, and I let Jesus control my life. But yeah, Jesus has controlled storms before, and it’s important to keep your eyes on Jesus even in the midst of any storm… including this one. Word.

Yes, Matt. There will be judgment. Of Heterosexuals, as well.

And the Heterosexual sins of abuse, degrdation, dehumanization, rape, torture, murder, and the THOUSANDS of other crimes Heterosexuals commit against the very Gay children God saw fit to leave in your protection will most certainly be more offensive to God than the matching genitalia of another’s beloved.

You are so backwards, we need a new word for backwards.

God was sending a tornado to warn against Gays as clergy? I thought it was to warn those wheo were against keeping Gays OUT of the clergy. Silly me for thinking that God was love.

God save us from organized religion and its fanatical devotees for they are terrorizers all.

THE TEN WORST NATURAL DISASTERS IN US HISTORY, or
Who ticked Jesus off and caused him to kill so many people

10) Tri-State Tornado, March 18, 1925
Jesus kills 700 people and destroys 15,000 homes in MO, IL, and IN

9) The Peshtigo Fire, October 8, 1871
Jesus burns alive over 1,200 people and totally destroys 12 towns in WI

8) Johnstown Flood, May 31, 1889
Jesus drowns 2,209 people and destroys over 1,600 homes in PA

7) Heatwave of 1988, Summer 1988
Jesus kills between 5,000 and 10,000 through heat exhaustion nationwide

6) Heatwave of 1980, Summer 1980
Jesus kills 10,000 through heat exhaustion nationwide

5) Okeechobee Hurricane, September 16, 1928
Jesus drowns over 2,500 people in FL

4) Great San Francisco Fire and Earthquake, April 18, 1906
Jesus kills over 3,000 people and leaves 225,000 homeless

3) Dust Bowl, 1930s
Jesus causes a severe drought in the central US uprooting millions of Americans

2) Hurricane Katrina, August 29, 2005
Jesus killed over 1,800 people and caused $125B in damages in LA

DRUM ROLL, PLEASE…

1) Galveston Hurricane, September 8, 1900
Jesus drowns over 8,000 people under 15 foot waves in TX

What he fails to remember is the fact that if the roles were reversed, it would be the gays fighting for his religious freedom. Or maybe if the roles were reversed and gay people had as much hate as he does, they would be voting to outlaw Christianity!!! Makes me want to visit Holy Land down the street and punch Jesus.

Maybe God is angry about the divorce rate in MN
Maybe God is angry about those left hungry, sick, homeless in MN.
Maybe God would prefer an all Jewish, or Moslem, or Catholic MN? The Creator may be angry you are calling HER a MALE NAME, she can get pretty miffed over that one.
God/Goddess works in ways mysterious.

And aren’t you climbing WAY WAY WAY over your pay-grade saying you know what God’s will is?

God is angry the MN LGBTs have to travel to IOWA, to be treated EQUAL.

My 25 foot Jesus told me this pastor, doesn’t speak for him.

So who ya gonna believe, him or a 25 foot Jesus?

I think that if people say that the God that use natural disasters as warnings is a bad and evil God, must understand that this is one of the things He does, because it is written He does and He will do it again.

In any case, God allow things to happen with the purpose of bringing people closer to Him on His terms. He is loving enough to do that.

If anyone thinks that the God of the bible is a bad God, try Allah.

In love,

Roberta

Mark, I am going to believe Jesus Christ of Nazareth.. born to a virgin in Bethlehem, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Messiah, Immanual-God with us, the great I AM, the one and only Son of God, the Word of God (John 1), the true God , A holy God- THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, who poured out his blood for the forgiveness of my sins and all those willing to repent (admit and turn from our sin – not justify it!) and receive his free gift of salvation… who loves us with an everlasting love… He does warn of false Christs and an anti Christ spirit… if I were you I would check and see which Jesus I was following…. I don’t think your 25′ Jesus is the Jesus of the Bible.
Jill

yes bill,
i said God will judge “ALL SIN”. And if you haven’t accepted Christ, who took your judgement,prersonally, you will take it yourself. But once again we are not talking about homos and staights we are talking about all sin in general.Rom5:8″ but God demonstrates HIS love toward us, in while we were yet sinners, CHRIST died for us.”

Since allah is a false god (right, roberta?), it must be Jesus who is behind all the slayin’ and slewin’.

So, here’s the…

10 WORST NATURAL DISASTERS IN WORLD HISTORY, or
Jesus World Tour of Death & Destruction Because Some of the Wrong People Teed Him Off

10) Egypt and Syria, 1201
Jesus killed over 1.1 MILLION people with an earthquake in the Middle East

9) Europe, 1347-1350
Jesus killed over 25 MILLION people across Europe with the Black Plague

8) Western Hemisphere, 16th-18th Centuries
Jesus killed over 25 MILLION or more native peoples in North America as they fell to imported European diseases like pox. Sometimes infectious diseases were used as a terror weapon by the Christians against the native Americans (which wouldn’t make that a natural disaster…so those people don’t count here)

7) India, 1769
Jesus starved to death over 10 MILLION people in India (Bengal)

6) China, 1876-1879
Jesus caused a drought which killed over 9 MILLION people in China

5) China, 1935
Jesus caused a flood in the Yellow River killing 3.4 MILLION people.

4) Africa, 1981-1984
Jesus killed over 1 MILLION people in Africa due to drought.

3) Ireland, 1845-1848
Jesus caused a potato(e) famine in Ireland killing over 1 MILLION people
(the extra “e” on potato is in deference to Republican scholar and Christian, Dan Quayle)

2) Worldwide Malaria
Jesus kills 2M-5M People PER YEAR with malaria

AND THE DRUM ROLL PLEASE, WE TRULY SAVED THE BEST WORK OF JESUS FOR LAST…

1) Spanish Influenza (Flu), 1918-1919
Jesus created a new strain of flu which killed 35-75 MILLION people worldwide. Some estimates place the worldwide death toll at 100 MILLION PEOPLE…GLOOWWWRRRYYY!!!

Jesus starved to death

the only hatred i see is the ones against JESUS. it would be too foolish to comment anymore!

Yes, Matt. It would be foolish.

Now you may go.

There are different things:

1 – Consequences of sin, which means violating God’s holy laws written on His book. Those are man made tragedies. Diseases started on the garden of Eve.
2 – Warnings from God and judgment from God, like natural disasters. Man can not make the rain stop falling or fall too much, man can not make a earthquake.

Well, I am assuming the person listing these deaths is someone that believes in the Bible, if not, then there is no discussion. If there is no belief in the bible, having a congregation makes no sense. Being gay or not.

Why don’t we just get along! You can almost hear the words echo in the room. Be nice to one another, be kind, is that not what it is about? Listen to those crazies over there: saying, “we must trust the bible”. Trusts the bible, what interpretation are they reading? My (NSV) New Sodomy Version says that God created Adam and Steve and Adam and Eve at the same time. So, what is the problem? A news flash is coming in over the wires: An arrest warrant has been issued for Lot, nephew of Abraham, in regard to evidence beginning to surface about a major disaster in the valley of the five cities. No warrant has been issued for Abraham at this time, although his ties to God and his Angels are widely known. Lot is wanted for questioning in the matter of two men suspected of being terrorists and possibly: heavens “Angels”. Rumor has it that the people of Sodom wanted to know who those two men were; because they were suspected of carrying what we now think may have been, some new form of suitcase bomb. The attempt by the authorities to arrest these men for interrogation resulted in the crowd being blinded by what we think was a flash of light. Our sympathies are extended to the public and those brave officers who attempted to grab and detain those terrorists. Information is scarce, but reports are surfacing, reporting that there is nothing left in the valley and that all five cities are gone: and that the smoke going up is like the smoke of a furnace. We only hope that these reports are false. All the major denominations are calling for increased cooperation with the authorities in finding all these agents of this so called “God of Abraham”, and putting an end to these troublemakers once and for all. The Catholic Church, because of its long history of hunting down and killing dissident terrorists is taking the lead in offering moral and financial support. With the Catholic efforts to make peace with all religions, a church spokesman told us off the record, “the only thing we really lack is a charismatic leader who believes in peace enough to enforce it, and a powerful religious spokesman to work with him and support him.” Discussions are in the works for some form of visual support for the anti-terrorist movement; the use of a mark visible to everyone has been suggested. Our unnamed source suggests that a visible mark, perhaps a number or a name would be in line with our security efforts and could tie in very easily with our Global attempts to put down this God of Abraham cult. Other suggestions include a building, possibly a tower. The location for this “Tower of Hope” has not been decided, but the clear frontrunner seems to be the City of Babylon. Our congratulations and best wishes go out to the Administrators and people of that great city of Babylon. Good luck and go get those bad guys.

Dear Roberta,

If disease started after Eve conversed with a snake and ate an apple (implying that sin causes disease), why did god (according to your book) create humanity and other creatures with built-in immune systems? hmmmm?

Also, other species can succumb (and do succumb) to all types of infectious illnesses, like humans. Do they speak to too many snakes or enjoy the succulent taste of apples a little too much? Do cows, pigs or monkeys “sin”? hmmmmm?

PS, I don’t “believe” in the Bible, nor the Koran or Torah or any other books manufactured by humans. All religious text had some nice things to say, and some absolutely horrible, disgusting things as well. But, I don’t expect much from bronze age sheep herders, so my expectations are low.

The concept of god is evolving as humanity grows up. Hopefully one day early 21st century christianity (ala Robertson and the late Falwell) will cast away homophobia as they have done with slavery, racism, sexism and ethnocentrism. Yes, at the time, they had chapters and verses to support their misguided beliefs, but those guns have fallen silent as Christianity (and humanity) grows up.

I am not up to start a discussion if God exists, Bible is truth etc. I am focusing on the fact that some people from the group that claim to know and believe on these 2 things are deciding if homosexuals can be pastors.

Anyone is free to believe whatever they want. If you like blue better, paint your house blue, but do not force me to accept it is the best color in world. I too have the right of liking a different color.

The religious people that kill others because they believe differently are not following the Bible, which puts them in the same place as the ones that believe are wrongdoers and I will not want to associate myself with them either.

I do believe that if I open a girls only club. I should not be forced to let boys get in and if they do not think I am right, go ahead and open your girls and boys club and be happy.

In the case there they have a bible followers club voting to decide if the some-of-the-bible-followers to join the club. I think it is ridiculous, but it is their right to do it and mine to say it is ridiculous.

Roberta,

I like your “live and let live” attitude that you expressed in the latter part of your response.

So, if I want to be married to the person I love, you and other evangelicals wouldn’t stand in the way? I don’t want you to accept me or even attend my wedding. I don’t want membership in your church, either. In essence, you have the legal right to enjoy whatever color you like, but so do I. The same, exact rights and responsibilities before the Law.

Deal?

PS: Lutheranism has evolved a great deal since its founding in the 16th century. For example, Martin Luther was a horrible anti-semite. Google his book, “The Jews and their Lies” written in 1542 to get a flavor of the bile he produced. But today, particular the Scandinavian form of Lutheranism, is very open and tolerant. The Swedish Lutheran church, for example, marries gay couples. ELCA is taking an evolutionary step today too. And that’s a good thing.

Steve and Bill and whoever, just a heads-up that Landoverbaptist.com is a satirical website! Google it….if you need a break from all the wrangling and feel like lightening up for awhile, it really is hilarious. I first encountered the site shortly after the tsunami happened, because it occurred to me when I heard that Thailand was known to have a fairly high gay population that someone was bound to insist that the devastation was God’s wrath on homosexuals. So I just googled “tsunami gay god’s wrath” and lo and behold, that very article popped up! I showed it to my pastor, who also thought it was hilarious. Sometimes satire can be fun, sometimes instructive, sometimes just silly. But waste no “fret time” thinking the piece is real. From a website that sells Jesus thongs and bumper stickers that say “Get Your A** to Church,” unlikely!

@Jill
My Jesus had St John the Divine rest his head on his chest during his Last Supper. The same St John who was the only disciple not to deny Jesus or hide, the same St John Jesus told his mother Mary to consider her son too. My Jesus healed the boyfriend of a Roman centurian. My Jesus healed the sick and went into the leper’s communities to do so, and counseled those ready to stone an adultress that you shouldn’t judge others.

That sound like YOUR Jesus?
any of it?

@Jill
While in MN, (where I lived 50 years) the vast majority of the citizens believe in a Jesus. Globably your beliefs are a tiny minority. Buddhists, Moslems, Jews, Hindus….think no more of your belief in Jesus, than they do the belief in Zeus and Hera, or Demeter, or Apollo.
Regardless of belief system, NONE of that is what our laws or Human Rights are based upon, equality under the law is in the Constitution, not Jesus’ sermons.

Emily

My problem is not with you if you are gay, but the church that claims to be a bible-believing organization discuss the option of a gay pastor, which is totally against the bible principles. If the church even consider voting it is because not all people in there are 100% believing on what they preach.

The same way that if you are part of ‘brunets only group’ and having some blond people trying to get into your group and complaining that you do not accept just because they are blond and that you are being wrong by your restrictions, as if the blond people do not deserve to be part of the brunet group.

I am not Lutheran.

Anyone read this letter above?

See? No one needs to believe in the God of the bible. You can make your own like she or he did. A God willing to apologize to gays and gossip about the heterosexuals.

For some people God is like a imaginary friend, you can make him look like anyway you want, you design his personality.

Others, like myself, submit to the one of the bible and accept that if anyone is not perfect it is certainly me and not God. And since I believe that He is all powerful, I ask Him to help me with what I am wrong.

Do you think God intended His word to be used to ridicule and berate one another? It appears that someone/something else has it’s hands in all of this choas…dividing believers. The ultimate victory for evil. Read/listen to how you talk to one another- complete strangers. Rudeness and disrespect. Whatever your beliefs-your cause…Christ came in peace. What is happening here??? A small indication of what’s occurring in the world.

Or a warning that they should approve it!!

Lisa,

Jesus came in peace? Let’s see what he said:

Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Oops, guess not.

So, to all his followers out there, keep up with all the acrimony,hate and division. Peace is for liberals and secular-humanists. Swords are for christians.

When the ELCA voted to allow gay and lesbian clergy yesterday afternoon, the sky was blue and the sun was out; a beautiful day! I’m sure Pastor Piper concludes as I do: that God smiled upon the vote of inclusion!

Please read Genesis, Chapter 19, if you are going to give an opinion without Biblical reference, your are spekaing to the wind. It’s amazing how many people have an opinion that makes them feel justified, but like a bucket with holes, cannot hold water.

No wonder man has not moved further…..with BS myths actually being believed,its no wonder the American education system is so below the average in western civilizations. In OUR Galaxy with 100′s of BILLIONS of stars/suns and planets, that is 1000′s of light yrs across …in a Universe with BILLIONS of Galaxies…and BILLIONS of Light yrs across…I doubt that there is some imaginary SKY GOD Judging humans,and what they do with thier hoo-hoos and Pee-pees……Its childish as believiing in Santa Claus…wake up,Open your minds…and free them from the shackles of man-made Dogma….WAKE UP! Don’t believe me..chk out Hubble Deep field

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcBV-cXVWFw

HUBBLE DEEP FIELD..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4s62voTc9k&feature=channel

What’s in the water in Minnesota?

Why do some religious leaders and others continue to say tragic events happen because God is mad or unhappy at the way some of his souls act?Of course he doesn’t like the way his human souls act sometimes but to claim he caused a tornado because he was unhappy about how one religious organization acted is absurd.
For one not all people around there are the same faith.Two,God doesn’t have or show favoritism over souls and churches,he loves all equally.Three,if God did do or cause such an event to show his displeasure with a paticular denomination as the pastor suggests in such a manner,that would mean God caused all such events to happen to show his displeasure,such as the earthquakes around 1812 in the midwest,the 1908 earthquke of S.F.,the fires in Chicago and so on.
If one were to believe God caused all these events becaused he wanted to demonstrate his displeasure with how things are and how some of his souls are acting,why wouldn’t he destroy Washington D.C. because of all the lying,cheating and stealing going on there?Why wouldn’t he stop or cause such events to happen where people are oppressed and killed by their governments for showing their belief and faith in him?
The answer,God set all things in motion from the beginning and gave his human souls free will,knowing ahead of time how all things will be.He has a masterplan for all things which we can’t comprehend but the Lord knows and will not interfer or change his materplan because he knows all his human souls are sinners and doesn’t place one above another.He has a meaning and place for everyone.Which is different and unique for every soul he created.
If God worked as the paster suggests,he would have destroyed all the wolves in sheep clothing he warned us about a lontime ago.

Father, forgive conservative Christians, for they know not what they do.

Amen! Judge not least ye be judged

The only true God (God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; God revealed in His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ) is most holy yet compassionate. His judgements on earth have the purpose of waking us up to turn us away from our wicked ways. May we be willing to let HIm change our heart and lead us back into His perfect plan. May we heed His warnings before the Last Judgement, facing the throne of Christ, when all will be sealed for eternity.
“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The man who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. (Galatians 6:7-8)
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.” (Isaiah 5:20)

Many many confused and blind people that have been taken captive by the great lie. It is truly so sad, and I hope that everyone can one day see the light.
As true Christians we cannot make rules and laws that go against God’s. We are flawed, therefore our laws are flawed. God set up a perfect plan for families and for some reason some of us feel that our plan is better than God’s. We cannot vote to make “gay” anything okay. God has already said no to that. So, if God says no to it, and the church says yes to it, then how can anything the church says be credible after that point? The church is now approving sin. As Christ followers we are all sinners, but we are striving not to be. So how can we begin saying that certain sins are now alright to take part in? We are now picking and choosing which sins are now all of a sudden okay for some reason. Did God change his mind? God never changes.
A simple tornado as a warning. Those that don’t believe, go read the Bible, especially the old testament.
It is so sad that so many people have been taken captive by lies. It amazes me that the belief in God has come under such an attack in just a few generations. What has happened to our God fearing country? I fear that it will be too late before we come back to our senses.

“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.” (Isaiah 5:20)

It is amazing as time goes on, the above verse applies more and more.

Piper is living in a fantasy world. To blame a natural phenomenon on the attitudes of a particular faith is such utter nonsense that it deserves to be treated with the deepest of contempt; it would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic and if there weren’t persons who actually accept such preposterous nonsense as having a basis in reality. Piper’s pronouncement that the tornado was a warning from God is yet another reminder that a large segment of society still regards gay men and women as second-class citizens – or worse. That is the salient point of my recently released biographical novel, Broken Saint. It is based on my forty-year friendship with a gay Mormon man, and chronicles the internal and external struggles of his troubled life as he battles for accepatnce (of himself and by others, including his co-religionists). More information on the book is available at http://www.eloquentbooks,com/BrokenSaint.html.

Mark Zamen, author

I have read the comments made after mine and everyone is entitled to their perception of scripture.Afterall,
that’s why their are so many different faiths of christianity.They all have different variations of how they believe and perceive things.Which is fine,God has a path for each and every faith and each and every person.
It does disturb me that many who claim to believe in Jesus and his teachings will disregard his coming and bringing us a New Testament in favor of the old when it suits them.In the Old Testament it says “An eye for an eye” in the New Testament Jesus brought us it says “turn the other cheek” one can not believe and hold onto both of them and say they accept the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.One can not say they believe in his teachings if they hate and judge others.For that which you do unto the least of Gods’ souls you do unto him.I admit I don’t know the exact words or where exactly that scripture is but for those who say they believe they know exactly what I’m saying.
I am and have always been a christian and believe in Jesus Christ with all my heart.I am offended that anyone who would claim to believe in our Lord Jesus Christ would presume to know the mind of God and judge his souls in his place.For those who wish to quote scripture in order to justify their interpetation and continue to use the Lords words to justify their own self-righteousness I suggest you take another look at 1 Corthians Ch.1 verses 27-31.
Someone commented that we are flawed which I agree with but who does one flawed soul presume to another?For anyone who may comeback on my words and say their simply quoting scripture.I say who are you as a fellow flawed soul to say your interpetation is the correct one if we are all flawed?Which Christian faith is right and does that mean the rest are wrong and are the wolves in sheep clothing that our Lord warned us about?Again,who are you or any of us to know the mind of God and his masterplan?
What human soul can claim to know the mind of God?Is it better to use the word of the Lord to scorn,hate and judge others according to our flawed perception?Or is it better to spread the love,peace and joy our Lord Jesus Christ taught?As for me,I’ll simply turn the other cheek as our Lord taught and pray others will use scripture to spread the love,peace and joy our Lord Jesus taught instead of using it to scorn and condemn others.

I think it is interesting that out of nowhere a tornado appears and hits the convention. I mean, there were no weather reports to indicate a tornado and then all of the sudden one appears and hits the church where this was being held. You all can have your own opinions. There is nothing wrong with that. But I don’t think that it is right to bash on someone for expressing their beliefs. Hitler did the same thing. He believed that his way and his beliefs were the only ways and beliefs and he killed and/or tortured those who believed differently. Do we really want to persecute someone just because that person is expressing their opinion, their beliefs. Since when did simply talking about something like this come down to a virtual stoning?

If God meant for homosexuals to co-habitate he would have created the world all male or all female. God created 1 male and 1 female and put them together to live together. It was God’s plan from the beginning and it will continue to be His way of acceptable living until the day this earth is destroyed. People want to change God’s original idea – but the bottom line is that it will never be acceptable for same sex co-habitation in God’s divine plan for us human beings.

After reading many of the comments I must come to the defense of John Piper. It wasn’t “hate” that I heard from him, or disrespect, sarcasm, bitterness, name-calling and being judgemental. (Yes we are to judge, not self-righteously, but we are to judge rightly with the purpose of pointing people to the Saviour.) But these things were coming from those who oppose Mr. Piper.
Many of the the writers of the comments are making this about everything else but what it is about. Either God said homosexuality is an abomination or He didn’t. Yes, God is a God of love, but He is also a God of justice, something that some don’t want to think about. We are accepted by God on His terms, not our own terms. We are accepted by God through Jesus Christ who makes us acceptable. We would all do well to heed the gentle, and not so gentle, reminders that we need to repent about what is wrong and against God and quit being willfully ignorant about what He has clearly written to us. Besides, it’s just not that difficult to figure out the human anatomy and what is meant and not meant to be. You can put a smiley face on what is perverted, but that doesn’t change God’s opinion on it.

I would like to add that I read all of John Piper’s article about the tornado at his website DesiringGod.com. He said everything that he said with gentleness and respect—not in a hateful way as he was accused. I would recommend that anyone read it—and if there are those that still don’t agree with him…so what?

Martin Luther would be spinning in his grave in a similar manner to the tornado were he to be told that a church bearing his name was promoting wickedness. Whether it was Divine warning or coincidence, the tornado should serve as a severe weather warning to the ELCA to repent and get back into the Bible and out of the sewer which is modern America.

You sweet, sweet straight pastor Piper. Who is your flock? To which sheep are you leaving the 99 to recover the one? Jesus seems too busy scaring gays to remind you that I, as a gay man “am wonderfully and powerfully made” (Psalms 139).

HAHAAH insanity! these idiots…what a sad and disturbing life they must lead to think like this…

There simply is no Love quite like Christian Hate.

Love and Hate??? Like Jesus, all of his true followers will love the person, homosexual or straight, but will always hate the homosexual lifestyle – There is a difference! Jesus loved the woman who was committing adultry, but told her to go and sin (commit adultery) no more. He loved the woman but hated her lifestyle.

Can anyone please DEFINE what is homosexuality? Is it anal sex? Well, heteros do that and oral too, is it not? So are heteros homosexual? Ridiculous. Loving people? EVERYONE THAT LOVES KNOWS HOW TO DO IT. And please, what the heck is the HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE ™? The car we drive? Is there a gay car? The house we have? The money we make? The food we eat (thought I thought shellfish was an abomimation too)?

Human beings in love with each other called a “lifestyle”? It is such a shame that just because AFTER “man-bed” was INTERPRETED FROM HEBREW incorrectly to the ENGLISH WORD homosexual all these stuff happen. Just imagine what if “man-bed” were translated into HETEROSEXUAL. Everyone will be talking about a “heterosexual lifestyle” now! Homosexuals hurt no one by being in committed relationships. We are the ones that hurt ourselves and others with our bigotry. This is sick.

I must say this, there is something wrong when all arguments are based on putting words into God’s mouth. There is something wrong when all opinions are still RUNNING AWAY from discussions of other matters like slavery, women’s position, who deserved to be stoned to death et all.

If you still wish to comment blindly that homosexuality is a sin, then please BE CONSISTENT with the other commitments of the Bible. If not, what right have you to use the Bible? Jesus never talks about a person to other people. He always asked us to reflect on our own sins. But when there is such instance, who does he talks about? Pharisees.

And who was it that was so smart to talk about other people’s sins? Pharisees. And all the above, who are cherry picking again, incorrectly addressing a sexual orientation as some kinda “act”, lifestyle, condemning love itself et all? Pharisees. What do the Pharisees love to do? BEARING FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THEIR NEIGHBOUR. In case you all forgot, it is a no-no PART OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Even “arsenkoites” and “malakoi” does not command such position. Perhaps it is because the Pharisees love to mislead people into assuming in English. God always asks us to test. We instead, just listen to everything that sounds good based on prejudice, not sense.

I standby my previous posts and all I can do is say I wish everyone well and prosperity and move on as Paul did.
Great points Yuki

If the tornado was meant to warn members of the ELCA about the dangers of letting homosexual men and women be members of the clergy, why did the tornado continue its path of destruction into south Minneapolis? Are the hundreds of people whose homes were damaged by high winds and downed trees and left without power for days also supporting homosexual clergy? Or did God take advantage of a perfectly good tornado to just warn humanity of his power.

Maybe the tornado just took a random path. We will never know.

Yuki

U r right to say that each one has to mind their own weakness. The homosexuality is 2 people of the same gender living as man and woman. Throughout the bible it described a man and a woman, a male and a female. Even among the animals that went by themselves towards the ark came as males and females. Marriages are two of different kind (male and female) forming one complete flesh.

If it just the order of things.

You are right that a person being gay does not make them unloving or that can not be the recipient of love, it has nothing to do with this.

The word ‘Love’ is like the the word ‘help’, it is a action word. Love is doing something for someone. No matter what kind of person, we must love and give ourselves to them. We are supposed to serve others because we are the visible body or God.

We are also supposed to take care of ourselves and try our best to follow the order of things that God determined.

What you said about shellfish and I will add scavengers and predators are not made for human consumption. Can you eat it? yes, will it be good for you? No. Is your body going to benefit from it? No. It is about the order or things.

Each person has a weakness dear and each one of us must work hard on it to be able to control ourselves. We must have control of our bodies, some people must control their tongue, they sin terribly by misusing it, some people lack control over their desire to eat and eat to their death…all that our bodies crave we must have control over

Roberta,

There are so many things wrong with your statements I do not know how to start. But looking at your use of “THE homosexuality”, I believe many here already know that you lack THE knowledge about what homosexuality is all about. I could comically assume that the two same-sex attracted individuals probably would not last long in their relationship is one was to be a woman, simply because you assumed that one half of a same sex partnership must be a female.

The ark story is too equally confusing. Can Noah really choose one male and one female of everyt species of this earth? Some chickens, certain frogs, fishes such as barrumundis and deep sea basses have a reputation of being able to change sexes. And heck, some animals are basically sexless. By “the order of things” you presume then there has to be intersexed animals.

Love is an action word. But I do not understand what you are trying you point out by saying love is “doing something to someone”. I believe everyone is mature and sensible enough to know what love is without you pointing it out. And everyone who loves themselves would of course take care of themselves and follow the order of things that God determined. Are you condemning divorce here? Because if you are heading that direction from the “one flesh” speech then I would completely understand and agree with you. Because divorce is a sin, and is against God’s order.

And did you really read the verse about shellfish? Did you notice that it also means crabs and prawns? You are right that it brings no good and no benefits. Like pork. Yeah dearest, the order. If you are looking to support your vesion of God’s order, then the sun still goes around the earth.

I believe your last paragraph still cause more head scratching for most here. You mention weakness and control. However, having weaknesses and controlling desires are not exclusive to anyone, and totally disregard sexual orientation. So hence I shall end with the order of things.

The order of things would require to mind your own business (not weakness, and that part is in the Bible. Go figure.). The order of things would also mean religion is an entity of the human race, which means by right you have no right to assume everyone wants to your hear God stuff. The order of things still calls you, as I have mentioned, to a complete adhereance of the Bible, which means every single item committed by the Bible are to be followed. Which means if you claim “one flesh” to “love” to “marriage” to whatever, then YOU must (without excuses) follow the order of things, such as looking for slaves from neighbouring nations to stoning those pesky adulterers, women who do not have a hymen, sinful fellas who work on Sundays et all. It also involves covering YOUR hair and keeping silent right now as the men are commenting. Okay?

Oh dear, it also means I have to keep quiet too. I pray for forgiveness for breaking the law! :o )

Who are we to act as if we are God?!!!
The facts are still fact even if some do not choose to see it. When God created humans he created them MALE AND FEMALE. Some may not like it, but its FACT just check your bible.!!!
Was God in the tornado that hit Minneapolis? I don’t know. He certainly could have been. Does that mean he is in every act of nature? All I know is that Moses saw God in a burning bush, but that doesn’t mean that God is in every burning bush out there. It seems that there has been a lot of PEOPLE making comments and it all seems to have scripture to back it up. The problem is it seems that there’s a lot of “cutting and pasting” the scripture to make it like you want it to be. We have to take the scripture in its entirety if we are to use it, not just pick and choose what is of our liking. God doesn’t care if we agree with it or not. He inspired it for us to live by and he commanded it. He didn’t ask for our measly human opinions!!!

Sorry to have to respond again but perhaps those who want to use scipture to justify their scorning,actions and judging which goes againist the teachings of Jesus should read Matthew ch.7 verses 1-4 and 1 Corthians ch.1 verses 27-31.Who is anyone to know the mind of God and who is anyone to judge his creation for him?

Excuse me,misptint (scripture)

Excuse me,misptint(scripture)(misprint)

“When God created humans he created them MALE AND FEMALE. Some may not like it, but its FACT just check your bible.!!!”

Last time I checked, what constitutes MALE and FEMALE is very vague indeed. What is your definition dear? There are over two hundered intersexed conditions in the world, many of them leaving the person genderly ambiguous. And even if you wish to ignore reality, what has being male and female got to do with same sex attraction? And even if you wish to ignore everything altogether and follow the scripture, the scripture did mention there are those who are born eunuchs. If I were you, I would really take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror… sigh….

“The problem is it seems that there’s a lot of “cutting and pasting” the scripture to make it like you want it to be. We have to take the scripture in its entirety if we are to use it, not just pick and choose what is of our liking. God doesn’t care if we agree with it or not. He inspired it for us to live by and he commanded it. He didn’t ask for our measly human opinions!!!”

Finally we have found someone that agrees to kill those pesky naughty children and those idiots who work on Sundays! Finally Gail realises the biblical truth that asks her to shut her mouth up! Erm… wait a minute? Why is Gail commenting here? Did the Bible not forbid her too talk?….

GOD BLESS YOU FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH JOHN PIPER!!!
You have been slandered for standing on behalf of righteousness, but the Fathers opinion is all that matters.

All extramarital sex is considered sinful in the eyes of God. I am dismayed at the choice my church has made to ordain those actively practicing the homosexual lifestyle with no remorse. Let me also say, I would be equally dismayed if my pastor had an extramarital affair, a divorce, or was living with a woman in a non-marital, sexually active situation. WeLutherans, who are all sinners, do love and welcome all other sinners. However, we whouse the Word of God as our authority do not want active, unrepentant sinners in leadership of us.

Mrs. Betty Bowers, America’s Best Christian, concisely explains the church’s teachings on homosexuality with this simple chart: http://www.bettybowers.com/bibleinterpretation.html

It will help you understand why the issue of homosexuality is of such overriding concern to some within the church.

Look I am a ex-gay and I am in homosexual ministry, we uphold all laws on sexual purity and the Condemnation and Hate from other along with the Christian Church are not going to help the sistuation. I do not feel that this weather concern was rath on the Homosexual. But we are commanded to love one another as God loves us. Its not about homosexuality to striaghtness its about Homosexuality to Holiness. That should be our concern it is there soul along with every other person out there. Let God do the Convicting of hearts. and let us just pray that they are saved and walk by them as brothers. May God bless you all! Remember to Keep Christ in your hearts and in Christmas!

Ben Hood
Director of By Grace Ministries

(you can all contact me on Facebook)

[...] met in Minneapolis in August to decide the fate of gay and lesbian clergy. Despite a tornado (which the religious right saw as a warning from God) the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America voted to allow the ordination of gay and lesbian clergy [...]