To quote J.C. Ryle:

“I declare I know of no state of soul more dangerous than to imagine we are born again and sanctified by the Holy Ghost, because we have picked up a few religious feelings.”

“Sound protestant and evangelical doctrine is useless if it is not accompanied by a holy life. It is worse than useless: it does positive harm. It is despised by keen sighted and shrewd men of the world, as an unreal and hollow thing, and brings religion into contempt.”

Someone posted “the same old, if you are a Christian you are stupid, let me personally flog you and call you an idoit.”

Next you’ll be complaining about being persecuted. Somewhere a tiny violin will play in the distance.

Most grown-ups understand that when people catch you being dishonest, there’s going to be some kind of blowback. Either people “turn the other cheek” and ignore it, but think less of you, or they let you know, one way or another.

If you don’t want people to think you are stupid, don’t make stuff up, or re-tell someone else’s lie.

If calling out the dishonesty of a fundamentalist is, to you, being intolerant, or “spewing hatred and personal attacks”, then you are whining, being very dishonest, and failing to take responsibility for your words and actions.

Sheesh is a wonderful expression. To express it properly, one adopts a disapproving body stance and tone of voice while throwing his hands palm down in the air at the errant child who immediately knows he did something wrong or said something inappropriate. I find it telling that so far, those objecting to my use of this expression have invariably been fundamentalist Christians who couldn’t be bothered to stop judging others and take a look at themselves perhaps out of terror at finding that they themselves have been lacking humanity the whole while …

Sheesh.

The people who propound these silly arguments are just reflecting their own unwholesome zest for smiting all and sundry for no good reason. They certainly aren’t Christians.

I am reading this. And it occurs to me that you have never experienced the pain of being told that God hates you. And it occurs to me that you have never experienced the pain of having your own family disown you and throw you into the street at the age of 15. And it occurs to me that you have never experienced the pain of facing each day knowing that most everyone yu meet and come into contact with will hate you if you are honest with them about who you are.

And you say ” nobody spews more hatred and personal attacks out of their mouths, or mouses, than the very people who preach against it.”

Really, FlowerHappy? Really? Does it make you angry when those being oppressed fight back? Really? So sorry. The strongest of you would not be able to tolerate a single day of the abuse you put Gay people thorugh daily. Not the STRONGEST of you. So, to you I say this: If you want to stop getting punched, then stop punching people. It is not US who are breaking into YOUR lives and trying to destroy YOUR families. It is quite the opposite, no?

As far as your god comments. Well. What can I say. Any human being that has taken a moment for reflection can clearly come to the conclusion that religion is false. God? That’s another story. We can neither prove or disprove his/her existence. It is not God that many Gay people hate. It is religion. And make no mistake, they are not the same thing. At all. Religions, ALL OF THEM, are nothing more than cults. They serve to create division amongst God’s people, they are respoinsible for war and death and murder and greed. And they have SO many of you bamboozled. For your $$$$.

So, FlowerHappy, it ALSO occurs to me that you have never experience the JOY of having 99% of the WORLD tell you that you are evil and going to Hell, and discovering, all on your own, that God loves you just as you are and a hateful Christian can NEVER take that away.

You people really have NO idea the amount of pain. The amount of hurt. The amount of despair that you have caused the very Gay & Lesbian children that you yourselves created. Nor do you care. But to put God’s stamp of approval on it is both reprehensible and blasphemous.

So we fight, and we rise another day, and we demand that we will not be denied equality any longer. Because right now, there is a 12 year old girl or boy who is considering suicide because his parents are telling him that God hates him. And that he is evil. And that he is going to hell. And right now as I type a Gay or Lesbian child is being thrown out of the very family that created them. This is why equality is important. We can no longer be doing this kind of damage to Gay & Lesbian children. Fighting for equality, and making gains in that area will make it easier for the future generations of Gay & Lesbian (and bi’s and trans, too!) children to make their way in this world. You all have made it VERY difficult for these past generations, and survival dictates that we fight for equality. It is the right thing to do, too. Doesn’t THAT count for anything anymore?

So when ‘Christians’ blame Gays for a tornado, you should try and understand that when you punch people with something like that, they will, inevitably, punch you back.

Mark you so nailed it. (pardon the pun) in every way. the same old, if you are a Christian you are stupid, let me personally flog you and call you an idoit. i truely have never met more intolerant people than the liberals who preach tolerance. tolerance to everyone as long as they agree with them. otherwise, you are racist, homophobic, hater, Christian, etc. nobody spews more hatred and personal attacks out of their mouths, or mouses, than the very people who preach against it. it is truely remarkable. why can they not just have a discussion. you, mark, were never offensive, never called them names, just presented your arguement. you never implied that they were stupid, or bad people, or anything, merely that they think about it, and give others respect that think differently. they can do nothing but condesend, and name call, and repeat what you say, (that was productive), and give no arguement in their favor.

i forget also why we have to have one or the other. why do we have to have God or science. we can have both you know. have they not heard the saying “who do you think started the big bang?” just because we know how things are done, does not neccessarily mean we have discovered how the process was created. science and theology can work together. and calling people names, and demoralizing them does nothing to further your point.

i could go on but…
and i just have to say, what is with the “sheesh” word. i cannot comment on all of the things i have to say to the use of that “word”

at least Dave and Lane have sparked up friendship.. that is something!! :)