Lake Elmo Fire: Bachmann draws overflow crowd for health care scrum

This woman is so ignorant of what is actually happening to ordinary people in this country due to our insurance company run “health” care. If you are able to afford quality health care, that is great. Unfortunately, Michelle Bachmann doesn’t want to hear the stories of those who don’t have insurance. She has her set talking points and beyond those, she buries her head in the sand. She throws the words “pray” “Jesus” “Christian” into her talks just often enough to hook the Christian extremists into a numb, non-thinking state and they follow her. It’s amazing!! Let’s use the minds that the good Lord gave us and the human compassion Jesus preached and start helping others. WE NEED UNIVERSAL, AFFORDABLE and COMPREHENSIVE health care.

Bachmann is a true hero. She is standing up to the boggus ideas of national healthcare. The public insurance option is the outright slavery of all Medical personal and tax payers. This is an evil plan and enslaves America to the government as the sole decision maker of life and death.

Bachmann is a hero to stand her ground and tell the public the truth. Bachmann exposes the misleading words like ‘choice’ that the Obama administration likes to use to sell the public on an idea that gives them more power, while enslaving the people.

Reminiscent of the sheep in Orwell’s novel 1984.

Knowing nothing with certainty is not something to be proud of.

Sheesh.

The non-thinking state of my numb mind tells me that Jesus preached compassion and to help others. but he did not get King Herod, nor Emporer Caesar, to provide universal, affordable and comprehensive water into wine, command the blind to see, the cripple to get up and walk, to provide bread and fish to everyone at the sermon on the mount and to remove the money changers from the sacred places. On His dying breath, Jesus did plead, “forgive them Father, they know not what they do.” Go forth and sin no more. Go, empty your own wallet with compassion directly to your neighbors and stop demanding the government empty your neighbors’ wallets for your own enrichmnent and lust for political power.

But it was Jesus, as Keith Ellison said recently, who healed the sick for free.

Samuel, that may just be the most ridiculously incoherent comment I have read about the topic. Go back to school. Knowledge is power.

[...] The Minnesota Independent has more details here. [...]

The event in Lake Elmo yesterday was not a “town hall” as depicted in the media but a rally for Bachmann’s pseudo-alternative and her false attacks and depictions of the public option health care financing plan which I understand to be HR 3200. Bachmann admits market failure in the health services and insurance markets. Her remedy- the Health Care Freedom of Choice Act- makes that worse. She falsely claims that insurance companies are prevented from competing across state lines. Wrong. The McCarran-Ferguson Act creates anti-trust immunity for the “business of insurance” where it is subject to state regulation. This law does nothing to prevent competition in insurance across state lines but it has enabled insurance companies to form cartels in interstate monopolies free from antitrust prosecution. Eliminating the antitrust immunity won’t help either unless there would be robust enforcement of the antitrust laws against these monopolies, something that won’t happen as long as insurance companies control the government.

Her proposal does nothing to fix the problem of insurance company profiteering by cancelling policies, denying coverage or limiting claims in favor of paying exorbitant $100 million/year salaries to crooks like Bill McGuire or excessive insurance bureaucracies. She complains about the government bureaucracy that would be created under a public health care plan: has she taken a look at the byzantine set-up that exists now under the guise of “private enterprise”?

She has falsely characterized the public option as a “takeover” of health care by the federal government which inserts government bureaucrats between the individual and health providers. That is just a blatant lie. The public option offers an alternative to paying for health care decisions made by individuals and their health providers.

Another lie she propagates is that the proposed health care bill “eliminates private insurance”, referring to “page 19 of HR 3200.” That’s a claim that subject to fact checking and a look at page 19, in fact a look at pp. 15-20 proves her claim to be a lie because it explicitly grandfathers many existing plans and allows private plans that are approved Exchange plans.
Bachmann is a demagogue. The deluded fools who turned out to her rally yesterday to cheer for her “standing up” against national health care proves how easily people are deceived and manipulated to accept ideas that are precisely contrary to their own best interest.

Michelle Bachman clearly has passion for what she believes in and that’s great. What worries me is that she has a way of making issues good or evil almost biblical. Like I’m not a good christian if I don’t agree with her. Debatable topics become crusades polarizing people in an unproductive way.My ancestors left Holland because of religious persecution and it started in the same way one side declares that its fighting for Gods values then it becomes the religion of the state and so on.

Curt said, “This is an evil plan and enslaves America to the government as the sole decision maker of life and death.”

The problem now is that it is insurance companies, whose primary motive is profit, making those decisions. Ever had the ‘opportunity’ of having to get Prior Authorization before having a procedure done? Ever had a Prior Authorization denied? Ever end up sicker because a procedure was deemed ‘unnecessary’? I have.

It’s no wonder why the U.S. is at the bottom of the list of industrialized countries in health care measurables like life expectancy, infant mortality and cancer survivability. We’re even behind Cuba! So much for what Bachmann calls, “the greatest health care system the world has ever known.”

Michelle Bachmann is about to find herself pitted against Jack Bauer. My money’s on Jack.

Bachmann has to be one of the most ignorant women in this country. It is amazing that she is an elected representative of anything or anyone. I do not believe she would know the truth if it smacked her in the face. She speaks like a fanatic, “USING” religion to “preach” her lopsided and ever so narrow views. If she took the time to actually read, listen to the President, or even try to understand the healthcare proposal, she might realize that she is preaching total lies. What baffles me even more than her ranting is the fact that the people there listening to her have not taken the time to find out the truth either. With all the real facts available to the public, how can people anywhere in this country actually fall for the lies and scare tactics that are being spread like a disease by the far, far, far right. This is the same ridiculous nonsense and fearmongering that Reagan and cronies tried to spread in resistence to Medicare. Medicare was going to be total socialized medicine that was going to RUIN our nation and take away all rights for people to choose their medical providers, etc, etc, etc. Medicare has turned out to be one of the greatest things this country has ever put into place —- no thanks to the far, far, far right wing!!!!!!! Thank you President Obama for trying so hard to help the people of this country. So many are so ignorant that they cannot understand nor appreciate your intelligence, your courage, your forward-thinking ideas, your concern for the poor, your compassion for the uninsured, and your determination to make this country a better place for ALL.

I would be more comfortable with Bachmann’s health insurance reform comments if she was wearing over-sized shoes and clown make-up.

@Curt

Do you have the foggiest idea of what slavery is? You might also want to look up “hyperbole”.

I hate the right wing beating up on the UK healthcare system, based on a few sensationalist headlines.

I’m from the UK. We LOVE our free healthcare system. 95% of our citizens are highly satisfied with our healthcare, which I presume is much higher satisfaction than in the US.

We also have higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality than the US. And we spend 40% of what the US spends per person on heathcare.

No UK political party would ever dream of dismantling the NHS. It’s political suicide. Even our CONSERVATIVE party has made a pledge to not reduce spending on healthcare.

If socialized medicine is such a great idea, how come Canada is re-opening the private market?

Here’s a hint for everyone hiding a point under their beanies: it’s because socialism does not work.

St. Obdurate, I’m glad you will be forfeiting all Medicare and Social Security benefits. And I sure hope you’ve saved a lot of money for your old age – if you’re lucky enough to live to see it.

I’ve listened to her and she has no idea beyond her crazed religious talking points of the damage she does telling people the government is going to get you. Her tin hat protects no one from catastrophic medical expense, I know. Greatest health care system in the world? Fact check her on that one, tell that to the people filing bankruptcy because of lack of insurance coverage. How long people want throw money at the insurance company(and their record profits)from their family budget,well,you decide when to wake up on that one. My question is: how much has Bachmann gotten from the health insurance lobby???? Elect Jack Bauer, PLEASE.

Curt – Hope your God protects you. Coz Michelle’s whacked out ideas won’t. She is utterly cracked and has delusional ideas of how the country should be.

Curt and Samuel sound like two guys who like to sit back to back, jerking off to Bachmann audio tapes.

We all agree that Health care costs are out of control, but why would anyone want to trust the government with this important industry?

And why don’t we take the time to research the issue and realize that rising cost are from the government involvement with fixed prices and forcing insurance coverage of expensive proceedures that insurance companies are then forced to socialize by raising insurance premiums to the point where no one can afford insurance.

What the administration is promissing is nothing but pie in the sky. They cannot lower costs, they are already driving them up.

Bachmann understands the issue and her idea of a Health Care Freedom of Choice Act would force insurance companies to compete with each other and reduce the role of government regulation, which would reduce costs. This is much better solution that socialized health care which has already been proven not to work.

interesting that she brings up the UK in her discussion of what we don’t want.

the UK is government run AND operated healthcare. defined as, if you’re a doctor you’re also a government employee working for a government operated hospital/practice. that isn’t what is being proposed.

your doctors won’t change, your choices for HEALTH INSURANCE will.

THAT is what the public option is about, and THAT is why all these people who are getting huge amounts of money from insurance lobbyists want it to fail. Insurance companies don’t want to have to lower prices to COMPETE with a government offered insurance option.

I love the way she starts off saying it needs to change, but doesn’t seem to know why or how or give any plans that would mean any real change.

why would she? she’s got the perfect healthcare plan, and insurance companies are paying her to make sure they can raise the rates on the rest of us whenever they want.

one question for anyone who disagrees… have your premiums gone up in the last five years? And if so, has your coverage increased with that premium increase?

as for the insane ‘death board’ chatter you hear… you mean insurance companies don’t already have the option of dropping you like a hot potato or refusing to pay and citing fine print in your policy? they aren’t ‘death boards’?

Curt: Here is a link to Bachmann’s Health Care Freedom of Choice Act, which she previously introduced as HR 636 in Jan. 2007. Show us where in this bill anything “would force insurance companies to compete with each other and reduce the role of government regulation, which would reduce costs” as you say.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:1:./temp/~c111B0SOdq::

I actually agree this would be a useful thing to do. I wonder why someone didn’t suggest this 20 years ago or why some Republican didn’t introduce this from 2000-2006 because I’ve had/have a medical expense saving account and probably will be forced to do this again next year when my COBRA coverage expires. But let’s not kid ourselves that this is any solution to insurance company regulation or enforcing competition. Right now the McCarran Ferguson Act immunizes insurance companies from antitrust liability. Bachmann’s bill doesn’t change that. It doesn’t force any breakup of the monopolies which I heard Bachmann admit yesterday was a problem.

And what about the “safety net.” Bachmann referred to that several times yesterday almost in passing and she said it fast. Are you under the assumption that people who cannot afford to be insured or are uninsurable because of “pre-existing conditions” are going to get this without comprehensive health care reform as proposed in HR 3200?

Curt, thank you for your post. You have answered your own question. The healthcare industry is a problem. Escalating CEO pay, skyrocketing premiums, out of control drug costs are the very reason we can’t trust industry. Industry has continually raised costs and delivered less. Minnesota’s United Healthcare was cited for CEO pay issues and a board of directors that was colluding with the CEO to cheat the customers and shareholders. Their CEO and board of directors has since been replaced by the state of Minnesota appointees.

The worst of Rep. Bachmann is that she doesn’t represent her constituents she manipulates them to an extreme. I am a constituent in her district and have had the misfortune of having her represent me for nearly 10 years. I have attended her “town hall meetings” in the past. When someone posed a reasonable opposing argument to her ideas she would ignore it. Then move into “propaganda” mode. Since she was last elected this is the first “town hall meeting” she has had that wasn’t held via telephone. I can guarantee you that no one in this entire district can name one piece of pertinent legislation that was adopted. Let alone a piece of legislation that positively affected a majority of her constituents.

i often wonder if most of the people of any nation are just sheep. if all i wanted is to have power then maybe i would work on the premise that bachmann and her kind are right to use the methods they do to get and retain power. or is that just to shallow and dehumanizing.

The flaw in Mrs Bachmann’s market-based health care reform thoughts is that the market can’t work well when consumers don’t have the information they need to shop intelligently.

How many people understand medical procedures well enough … drug effects well enough … to comparison shop among providers IF they could even get the information they need?

Do we shop procedure-by-procedure? That means you’ll be shopping when afflicted with something …. how many people shop smartly when they’re sick? What’s your upper price on something that relieves your suffering?

It is impossible for consumers to know what we should for a market approach to health care reform to work. And the profit motive distorts provider allegiance – it’s about the money, not helping a patient.

We need a strong comprehensive public insurance option for any heath care reform to work – extending coverage while saving on costs

I used to work as a contract programmer and I was once hired to rewrite an application for a large Minnesota HMO. The manager of the department sat me down on my first day and explained he wanted the application to be more complicated so he could justify a higher headcount for his department.
The health insurance industry has nothing to do with health, like any other industry it is all about making money.

@Mill and TSG

Ok… if the private insurance industry is nothing but a bunch of crooks then why on earth do you think a government run insurer would be anything less then an even larger inefficient monopoly?

The historical evident of government programs proves that it is impossible for a government option to lower costs. Costs would likely double. I would rather have the system we have now than pay double.

A better option and the real change we need is to force the crooks to compete with each other and drive down costs in the process. This is Bachmman’s idea.

Her ideas are better then the president’s and if this was really about lowering costs, he would take her advice. But it’s not. It’s about power and government expansion to take over yet another industry.

Actually Curt, there is plenty of evidence for government run programs lowering costs. You did’t anser my question where in Bachmann’s proposal would her idea address the monopoly problems which she admits exist and where is this “safety net” she says should or maybe is there? Why should Obama take her advice when she offers no real solutions? The Republicans are, as they, bankrupt of any ideas. The extreme rightwing, of which Bachmann is a leader, has nothing but obstructionism and fear to offer.

We already have Medicare and the VA as two examples of government run health care. And if you want to consider other examples, take the government involvement in the electricity. The REA, the TVA and other programs of “public power” established “yardstick competition” against private utilities. Public power made electricity available and affordable for millions of people in the 1930’s-1950’s and into the 1960’s. If not for public power, most of the country would still be unable to access electricity.

Alan, just as soon as I receive refunds for the money the US government forceably removed from my paychecks for the past 35 years, I am ready and more than willing to be struck from the SSI and Medicare rolls.

@jonerik

Bachmann admits to the monopoly problem of the health insurance industry and offers sound solutions. I’m not sure what ’safety net’ she mentioned so I cannot honestly comment on that.

But, Medicare and the VA are successful at only one thing – bankrupt programs that represent massive liabilities to be paid by our grandkids through higher taxes and inflation for generations to come. That is historical evidence that proves government healthcare will never reduce costs.

Also, there are plenty of other options for reducing costs that have been discarded by the powers that be. Here is a video clip of some much better solutions that have been proposed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHbwdZXeUFo