Conservative suburbanites launch Minneapolis voter ID petition

Strange how some conservatives are convinced others – not in their neighborhoods, not of their socio-economic status, not of their political persuasion – are engaged in voting shenanigans.

If it is a petition to the City of Minneapolis government about voting rights and procedures within the City, shouldn’t the petitioner be a resident eligible to vote in the City?

Is there a way to start a counter petition against the ID requirement?

Don’t you want to stop inelgible people from voting? Don’t you want to stop voter fraud? Don’t you want to stop immigration lawbreakers from voting by presenting a driver’s license and utility bill? Don’t you want to ensure the integrity of our electoral system? This is a neutral issue. People without driver’s licenses can get a state photo ID at nominal cst, and their should be no shortage of non-profits to assist in this task.

Only citizens can vote. With all the illegals in the United States and Minnesota, we must do what is necessary to protect the integrity of our electoral system. Photo identification is not an onerous burden – it is a reasonable and minimally intrusive requirement.

If this is so important, then why don’t they organize in their own suburbs first? Oh yeah, that’s right, the senior citizens there would get out the pitchforks.

I hope they spend a lot of time and money on this and it gets on the ballot in November. I trust that the voters of Minneapolis are much smarter than to vote for such a regressive and unthoughtful measure. In the meantime, Minneapolis voters can focus on what really matters this Fall: electing a governor who is not trying to starve our state’s most critical assets, our major cities.

Nachmann ~ voter fraud, if it exists, is extremely minimal, and is a felony so severe penalties are in place already.

This is obviously an attempt to suppress votes in heavy DFL voting areas.

I don’t know how anyone could think voter fraud is not a problem. Remember Acorn???
The heavy DFL voting is due to Acorn going out and promising people more entitlements with our tax dollars.
And how is it that Norm won, than Al won? Still makes no sense to me.
I agree with Nachmann and anyone who really cares that elections are not rigged would agree also. Just show your ID than cast a legal vote. No problem.

voter fraud is not a problem. people who think there is a problem ought cite some evidence showing their concerns are justified, not rightwing smokeblowing about ACORN.

These suburban racists should go back to their own towns and leave us alone.

If this is so important, let the actual residents of Minneapolis decide how to conduct their legal voting process. End of story!

Nachman: There is NO cost, nominal or otherwise, attached to the right to vote. Poll taxes are a no-no now, thank goodness.

Lamb: Perhaps you’re in favor of reverting to a literacy test. Then those who can’t distinguish “than” from “then” would be disqualified from voting.

Liberal “elitist” taunt over.

Uhmm, some of you seem to forget or not realize that getting a fake drivers license is as easy if not easier then getting a real id. It just costs a little more. I would hazard a guess that close to 100% of the illegal aliens that get caught have a fake drivers license as well as fake immigration papers. So if we open up the polls to only people who have a drivers license you could have even more fraud then before. As an election judge in one of the most busy precients in Minneapolis. From what I’ve seen in my 6 years as an election judge, there is very little fraud or abuse here in Minnesota.

The Bush Justice Department spent eight years scouring under every rock looking for voter fraud, and couldn’t find it. They got a few felons who thought they were legally allowed to vote again. That’s about it. Not much for eight years of effort to prove voter fraud with all the resources of the federal government. Maybe you can’t prove a negative, but that comes pretty damn close.

ACORN did not commit voter fraud. They had some registration forms that had been filled out with fake names, like Mickey Mouse. By law, they cannot throw those away. They must turn them into the secretary of state. They did, and brought it to the sec of state’s attention that there may be problems with those forms. It’s the sec of state’s responsibility to deny the registration–ACORN cannot.

Voter fraud would be if Mickey Mouse actually got registered and someone showed up at the polls saying they were Mickey Mouse when they weren’t and voted.

I’ve done plenty of voter registration (not for ACORN) and you cannot throw out any card no matter what someone puts on it. ACORN was just following the law.

Of course the right wing twisted this story into fake shrieking cries of voter fraud.

Illegal immigrants tend to stay as far away from government as possible out of a fear of being deported. All this proposal would accomplish would be to disenfranchise the elderly, homeless and others living on the fringes of society. Their voices are American voices.

It is Minneapolis residents that are the petitioners and Minneapolis residents will decided when this issue is put on the ballot.

The idead is to *prevent* voter fraud and *protect* our electoral system from fraud, not wait for something to happen. This is *not* a partisan issue.

FWIW, the illegals are predominantly Mexican and Central American. They are practicing Roman Catholics or Protestant Evangelicals. If they have, by some chance, achieved legal status, they maintain their cultural and religious beliefs.

The Somalis, being legal residents, are almost without exception, followers of Islam.

On social issues, both demographic groups are conservative. I emphasize *conservative*.

DFLers, Greens and leftists – be careful what you wish for.

A poll tax is a head tax. It can also be a tax is levied for voting. There is no poll tax currently and will not be one in the future. If a person who is eligible to vote is indigent, a Minnesota photo ID will be provided for the citizen. With all our money being spent on all sorts of crap in this state, the money can be found to finance the issuance of the current Minnesota photo ID for these indigent voters. Problem solved.

Now – what are your objections?

The idead is to *prevent* voter fraud and *protect* our electoral system from fraud, not wait for something to happen. This is *not* a partisan issue.

The illegals are predominantly Mexican and Central American. They are practicing Roman Catholics or Protestant Evangelicals. If they have, by some chance, achieved legal status, they maintain their cultural and religious beliefs.

The Somalis, being legal residents, are almost without exception, followers of Islam.

On social issues, both demographic groups are conservative. I emphasize *conservative*.

DFLers, Greens and leftists – be careful what you wish for.

A poll tax is a head tax. It can also be a tax is levied for voting. There is no poll tax currently and will not be one in the future. If a person who is eligible to vote is indigent, a Minnesota photo ID will be provided for the citizen. With all our money being spent on all sorts of crap in this state, the money can be found to finance the issuance of the current Minnesota photo ID for these indigent voters. Problem solved.

Now – what are your objections?

FWIW, I’m a DFLer.

Sorry for the double post – browser trouble.

Ridiculous. Dear suburbia, yes, it really is possible that there are this many Democratic voters here in Minneapolis. Buzz off and worry about voter fraud in your own town if you’re so concerned.

Love,
The residents of Minneapolis.

While photo IDs may seem harmless, they are in effect modern day poll tax. I understand that there’s a photo id requirement when purchasing fishing and hunting licenses, or obtaining a drivers license. But none of those actions are as fundamental as voting, which is guaranteed in the Constitution. It is first found in the 15th Amendment and then expressly underscored without any additional requirement in the 24th Amendment.

Eligible citizens, particularly the elderly, legal immigrants and low-income persons, can be (and have been) blocked from voting without the proper documentation. What if you were mugged on Election Day, and your id got stolen? Or what if you were elderly and that day you just couldn’t remember where you had placed your id last?

The voter id proposal is a regressive, unconstitutional voter suppression tactic. Instead we need to be stimulating broad voter participation for all Americans.

As for the charge about all the fraud that ACORN has done, I think the facts over at the non-partisan, highly-respected FactCheck.org speak for themselves: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html

Some of you people are just nutz. Obviously the id requirement threatens your voter fraud strategy. Even if your driver’s license or state id is stolen near to election day, a passport or electric bill will suffice.

Decry the ACORN conspiracy if you want, but advocating anonymous voting is clearly a cheating strategy. Next thing you know the president won’t need to prove his citizenship which is also required by the Constitution.

Nachmann, you win, proposal accepted, with some modifications: http://www.mnprogressiveproject.com/diary/2585/ok-republicans-you-can-have-voting-ids

[...] Citizens for a Better Minneapolis and the Minnesota Voters Alliance are trying to make voting in Minneapolis more restrictive by requiring that residents show a photo ID in order to vote. The interesting thing is that the majority of those involved in the effort aren’t even Minneapolis residents. [...]

I am not from the suburbs and the committee of petitioners are not from the suburbs and the forty or so people volunteering (already) their time to collect signatures are not. This is a Minneapolis effort directed largely by Minneapolis citizens. Andy and a few others are (and I guess you are suggesting people form the suburbs of Minneapolis should have zero interest Minneapolis), but for the most part it is Minneapolis residents. This whole suburbanites pushing this Photo ID thing is just media spin by the MN Independent.

Kris Broberg
Citizens for a Better Minneapolis

Mr. Neuman,

Your scare tactic arguments are invalid.

#1 An ID will provided at no cost to thos who can not afford one.
#2 If you are mugged on election day or forgot your ID you may cast a provisional ballot.
#3 The supreme court has ruled a voter ID requirement to be constitutional.
#4 People doubt the integrity of our election system, in Indiana voter participation has increased since the Photo ID requirement was implemented.

“And how is it that Norm won, than Al won? Still makes no sense to me.”

It makes no sense to you that your candidate could lose an election? Have you been working in North Korean politics long?

@nachman and @broberg

IDs don’t prevent voter fraud. In reality it is very hard to throw an election by people voting in more than one district. It simply doesn’t scale. And with more people involved – the risk of someone revealing the deception is higher. Its easier to attack the process in other ways such as releasing pamphlets that states the election day was moved (as both parties have done), hacks against voting machines, bribing someone who is responsible for counting the ballots, or preventing people from voting (which IDs would do).

And people don’t doubt the integrity of our election system – at least in Minnesota. This charge only gets thrown out when one’s candidate has lost. The Coleman-Franken re-count process proved how well our election process worked. Could there be improvements? Yes. But IDs is not one of them.

@lamb

“And how is it that Norm won, than Al won? Still makes no sense to me.”

I’m sorry but I can’t mince words here – you are a troll or an idiot. The reason why a hand recount law exists is because machine counts aren’t infallible. Its a check in the system. Hand recounts are more accurate. And the entire process was overseen by both republicans and democrats and judged by both republicans and democrats. Despite the local and national rhetoric – not one person could prove there was fraud in the system that would allow one candidate to win over another.

In other words – the election process worked.

Norm won. The seat was stolen by counting absentee ballots more “liberally” in cherry picked populous DFL districts. Since the “count” was very close, that’s all it took.

The secy of state’s office and the judiciary are manned by leftist activists, so Norm was wasting his money in court. People on the right despise Norm so they were happy to just watch the larceny unfold.

Give it a rest, Jimmy. A narrow margin of victory does not mean there was fraud. The voters of Minnesota were sick of Norm (more voters voted against Norm than voted for him). That’s all it took. There was no conspiracy–after all, the judges that ruled agains Coleman were largely Republican appointees. It was a narrow loss, but it was still a loss. Get over it.

You can sit huddled in your bunker and fume about libruls stealing everything from you, if you like. I don’t expect there’s any reasoning with a mentality like yours. Here on earth, we realize that elections don’t always go the way we want them to. Try it sometime.

I was happy with the outcome. Rhino gone, embarrassing clown leftist in, and with the shame of a stolen seat.

[...] IDs statewide. But a couple of groups are focusing on requiring IDs to vote solely in Minneapolis. As the Minnesota Independent shows, these groups are comprised almost entirely of suburban conservatives. Why don’t they think [...]

Typical sore loser. Franken won fair and square, and given his performance so far, he’ll be hard to beat when he’s up for reelection. You’ll see, Jimmy.

There’s no point trying to convince conservatives that Franken won. No matter how transparent the process, no matter how unanimous the judges, no matter how disproven the allegations, anybody who doesn’t admit the election was stolen must have been in on the conspiracy, including all the Republican election judges and supreme court justices. That all the judges found for Franken unanimously in both rulings and findings of fact won’t sway them.

But what the hell, I’ll give it a shot. Jimmy, your assertion the absentee ballots were cherry picked is ridiculous. The rejected ballots were gone over by the canvassing board and the rulings were unanimous, including the Republicans. The contest court was likewise unanimous. And the Supreme Court. Every rejected ballot in the state was picked up by the judges, and they came to the same conclusions. The recount proved that if there is a single state where voter fraud is not occurring, it’s Minnesota.

OK, one other refutation. Kris, you mentioned that Indiana had increased participation after implementing their photo ID law, but remember that there were also voter registration drives by both parties, a big increase in participation all over the country, and Indiana was close for the first time in a very long time, which increases turnout. The odds the ID law were responsible for the increased turnout are very low, especially since the people more likely to turn out because of the law would be conservatives, yet the state shockingly went for Obama.

Hard-core Republicans seem to view elections with a sense of entitlement.

They have been convicted of DoS attacks on Democratic phone banks on election day. They have been convicted of illegally challenging the voting rights of likely liberal minority voters. In Michigan, in 2008, they tried to challenge the voting rights of voters who were foreclosed on just before the election, in spite of the state law that protected those rights.

And then there was the nefarious “Operation Chaos”, which had the sole mission of corrupting the democratic process.

Voter ID is a problematic solution in search of an excuse to exist – just more bureaucracy sponsored by the party that opposes bureaucracy. Virtual Gerrymandering.

Votes cast by dead people, now that is a valid – if not serious – concern. A concern that is being addressed without voter ID. I was rather surprised that death certificates do not seem to initiate an update to voter registration rolls, or that death records are not checked when the rolls are printed and sent to the precincts.

I caught part of the debate over election reform on TV (Go tpt-MN!!), and it sounded like there may still be a loophole in their logic/legislation. They want to process the mail-ins ahead of the election and mark, in the printed precinct rolls, which people have already voted.
First, that would mean that the deadline for mail-ins would have to be set days before the election – or any ballots received too late to be reflected in the voter rolls would have to become provisional until it can be determined that the voter did not vote in person. That becomes a very messy process.
Second, I think that voting in person should always override other methods. The mail-ins should be counted after – not before – the polls close, and checked against who voted in person to prevent double voting. But that’s just a philosophical difference.

I oppose this as it has been demonstrated that the voter fraud it is designed to prevent simply does not occur particularly here in MN BUT it has been demonstrated where such requirements have been enacted that large numbers of people are disenfranchised as a result.

Secondly, I believe getting a driver’s license should be unrelated to immigration status anyway as it is better for everyone for driver’s to be licsensed and insured. However, that would make the motor voter ID idea even more absurd.

Thirdly, I favor restoring immigrant voting rights. For most of U.S. history you didn’t have to be a citizen to vote and the two are not tied together under federal law even today. In many states and localities across the U.S. noncitizens vote in local level elections legally. In MN this is not allowed. Most western democracies, i.e. European Union countries, Canada, Japan, Etc. allow non citizens to vote if they are full time residents particularly if they are taxpayers.

My brother lives in England but is a U.S. citizen. Because he pays taxes in England he is allowed to vote in all elections in Britain including national ones. How is it the British now have the “no taxation without representation” thing down better than we do?

Thirdly,

David, you have great idea. A person can vote in a federal election if they PAY federal taxes. Same with state. Seems very reasonable.

Still, presenting SOME sort of identification when voting is a nobrainer. If you oppose that, you are in favor of cheating. Period.

Mpls is a 1 party town. Republicans R not welcome and Greens are Demo-lite. If there really was an option…this would not be the case.

@ Eric Fergussen

If you look at the Indiana numbers, the vote increased by 13% in 2006 and 3% in 2008. The vote turnout increased across demographic groups. This could be coincidence, but it certainly does not support the idea that this will suppress voter turnout.

Kris Broberg

We already id for voting! It’s called Voter Registration. The problem is requiring a state id to be presented on Election Day after you’ve already registered – which itself requires proof of eligibility (i.e. citizenship) and a whole host of verifying information: http://www.sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=204

As you may know, Minnesota also has same-day Voter Registration, and that requires a valid picture id, a valid registration in the same precinct under a different or address (in case of move, marriage, etc.), a notice of late registration from the city/county, or a voter registered in the same precinct as you who can confirm your address with a signed oath. And it’s a felony to commit voter fraud.

Minnesota often leads the nation in voter turnout, participation, and integrity of elections. This works!

Just wondering,how many of these conservative advocates recently relocated from the deep south?Does anyone remember the literacy test requirement that many of the southern states tried to impose in order to prevent black people from voting?Conservative republicans NEVER cease to amaze me.They will do anything to try and retain power!!

Bud, you’ll find that most or all of those literacy tests were enacted by DEMOCRITES.

http://www.crmvet.org/info/litapp.htm

I admit I think literacy tests are a good idea, but denying the right to vote based on race, creed, religion etc. to be barbaric and unacceptable. And thats exactly what the Southern Democrites did.

@Jim,Literacy tests were effective in excluding blacks or poor whites for two reasons:(1)education was unequal as a result of segregated schools and (2)the tests were implemented with tremendous individual discretion!This latest attempt at voter suppression looks a little bit like something from the Jim Crow era.

I don’t buy it. You want to protect the cheating franchise known as ACORN, a wholly owned subsidiary of the DFL.

This city would be much better off without these suburban A-Holes.

Speaking of which: Kris, will your volunteers show me their ID’s when they approach me with their petitions?

They show up at my door and I’ll greet them with my shotgun.

To those of you who are interested in countering their actions. contact League of women Voters of St. Paul

Please be aware that more than 30,000 postal Verification cards were returned undeliverable by the post office after the 2008 elections. None of those 30,000 voters could be verified, yet their votes were counted. ACORN, a group who has been discovered and has admitted to voter fraud all across the country, claims credit for 80% of new registrations in Minnesota. Please note that in Indiana, approximately 88% of the ACORN voter registrations they reviewed were found fraudulent / invalid. In Seattle, WA, only 9 of 2,000 voter registrations were valid! Please research for yourself by searching c-span and acorn from Dec 2009. After the voter ID requirement was implemented in Indiana, voter turnout actually INCREASED. We ABSOLUTELY NEED a photo ID requirement to restore integrity to our elections in Minnesota. Please question the motives of anyone who says we do not.

The only way to assertain if a person is eligible to vote is if they have proper ID, otherwise any illegal non-citizen can vote.