Tea Party supporter threatens AFSCME office

Why exactly are you not revealing his identity? (And do you realize that you say “from a man” in the first graph, but “his or her” in the second to last?) If he is a business owner, this is important information for readers who may not want to patronize that business. And besides – do you REALLY expect him to call you back now? You have the evidence, you have the forum – publish the info.

If MNIndy refuses to, will someone from AFSCME who knows please do so, so that this creeper won’t be able to hide behind anonymity?

It takes a real mental giant to do this to a union that represents prosecutors, probation officers, public defenders, court clerks, and correctional officers!

The very idea that we it is somehow “fair” to tax the rich just proves what we all know. You are looters. Pointing a gun (government)at a persons head and taking their money (it is theirs, not yours) is robbery. You are sucking at the teat of the taxpayer and when they object, you villify them. I can certainely understand the callers frustration, though I don’t condone his language or his methods. How much is enough? 50%, 75%, 100%? Next thing you know, you will want to confiscate our post tax wealth. Oh yeah, you already do. It is called the estate (death) tax. Shame on you! Hooray for the Tea Party!

And if it turns out that he’s a Democrat…. what then???

Hello:

What is the basis for saying this person is a tea partyer. You have groups like crash the tea party trying to be agent provocateurs. You have Bill Clinton and other Obama operatives threatening to smear the leaders of the tea party movement.

Tell us his name so we can vet his association with the tea party. I would like him to name 5 verifiable tea party members who will vouch for his involvement. Then, what particular local groups meetings does he go to? Next, have him produce the minutes from the last two tea party meetings he has been to. And if somehow, someway he is associated with us, he will be shown the door.

Next, I want Ms. Munt to identify the police officer that allegedly said, ““The tea party has a history of inciting angry mobs, so given that, we filed the report… If his profanity persists, then it would be actionable,” police told her.”

And then I want that officer to site his facts and where they can be verified.

This smacks of yellow journalism. Was this event fabricated and Printed this the day before a big event to attempt to discredit and demonize the tea party movement and keep crowd size down?

The TEA Party advocates non-violent political discourse to resolve our grievances. We specifically tell members not to commit or allow themselves to be drawn in violence and high drama.

And should the perpetrator turnout to be not associated with the tea party or worse, an Obama Agent Provateur, what remedy will the Minnesota Independent offer those Minnesota Citizens that were offended?

Those were my thoughts.

Don Mashak
The Cynical Patriot
TEA Party / MN Judicial Reform and Accountability

A nut is a nut, regardless of political affiliation.

Gahnzo: Regardless of his party affiliation, this behavior is not OK.

Don Mashak: The headline says he’s a Tea Party supporter. Seems fair game to assume that if he’s promoting today’s Tea Party rally.

Mark: “The very idea that we it is somehow ‘fair’ to tax the rich just proves what we all know.” So, it’s unfair to tax the rich? How about the rest of us? Or, are you against taxes — pooled resources set aside to create and maintain shared assets like highways, national parks, libraries, police and defense forces, etc. — altogether?

This is obviously a left wing crazy person who is trying to make the tea party look bad. Anyone who knows a person who supports the left can verify this. They are jealous of the tea party movement because they represent the majority of Americans and they did not come up with it. I’ve been to 4 tea party rallies across the country, and everyone is civil (I was in Washington DC and there was NO foul language as our unethical politicians like to tell everyone), peaceful, couteous and even clean up after themselves, unlike the far left who yell, bully, physically assault and attack anyone who disagrees with them. The Minnesota Independent needs to really check into this story and publish the name of the kook who made the call. I’m sure if there is no follow up, it’s because he was really a left wing psycho. Shame on your yellow journalism!

The obsession of Americans with taxes is driving the country to ruin. It seems the the Republicans only have one idea–lower or eliminate taxes. But, the idea is wrong for several reasons. First and foremost we need big government to protect us from private and corporate interests (who we don’t vote for), as history has clearly demonstrated. The fact that the government of late is not protecting us but is protecting them is further evidence that we need a stronger government. Taxes pay directly for goods and services that not only help and protect people (like building bridges), but can fund efforts to improve our lot. Taxes fund the wars that the Teabaggers seem to like so much. Government can act in our best interest, not based only on making a profit. Don’t the mindless Teabaggers see the results of unbridled capitalism in recent events? (Which have been observed repeatedly historically.) Finally, let me note that Americans do not have high taxes compared to other countries. Unfortunately, right now, our government seems to support a redistribution of wealth from the people to the rich via corporate wellfare, bailouts, and laws (check the data). The protection of health care for profit is only one example.

The TEA party seems to do a lot of crying, but really, do they have any solutions? I am confused on how they play to care for the stuff they propose to cut aid to.

“They are jealous of the tea party movement because they represent the majority of Americans and they did not come up with it.”

According to todays’s NY Times (oops! Librul media!), 18% of Americans identify themselves as tea-partiers. They are wealthier, and tend to hold more conservative views than most Americans. They do not represent the “majority of Americans.”

The obsession the left has with spending, borrow more, spending more and then taxing those who dare to be successful is driving this country to ruin. It seems the left has only one idea – spend more. First and foremost we need small government to free up private and corporate interests to create investments, expansion and jobs (big government doesn’t do that, never has). The fact that the government of late thinks they’re protecting us but, in fact, have caused all the problems we have is evidence we need LESS government.

History repeats itself, always does. Spending more, more government – NEVER works. Never. Mindless leftwing haters can keep trying but that’s the definition of insanity, continuing to try the same thing over and over thinking they’re going to get different results.

Yeah, we always believe what the NY Times says. Go to a rally, there are more low and middle class people there than any one place on earth. And they’re not all white, despite the propaganda.

BTW, aren’t all the anchors on MSNBC white? Uh-oh.

Andy,

So you say “he or she” is a Tea Party organizer, but you won’t say who they are so people can verify for themselves?

So let’s get this straight; you feel at liberty to impugn the Tea Party (several times; could you ask the idiot from AFSCME to give us examples of “mobs”?), but nobody’s able to actually verify it?

I’ve defended your writing in the past, Andy, but this is just plain yellow hackery.

I’m a Tea Partier, Andy. I DEMAND to know which of my movement’s supposed organizers would do such a thing!

Cough up the info!

Average Joe – you just go on and keep being average – don’t let messy facts get in your way.

Is the same thing true about FOX News?

I’m with Mitch Berg on this. As stupid and mean-spirited as most tea baggers are, if they aren’t responsible for this they should be let off the hook- tell us who it was – this person is an ass no matter which side of the line he falls on and needs to be exposed.

This transparent attack on regular folks will backfire, Andy.

Rob C: Your education in history, government, economics, and constitutional law is sorely lacking. First, the US Constitution establishes government, grants it power, and limits its powers. What we have is a government far overstepping its bounds – I think we might agree on this point. But MORE government overstepping is not the answer. Our founders were oppressed by a similar tyranny and took great pains to limit the government with a brilliantly drafted Constitution. I would encourage you to read Article I for a better appreciation of what power Congress ACTUALLY has. They have so misconstrued the Commerce and Taxing and Spending Clauses that you, in your ignorance, believe they can do anything they want.

What WE want (average folks – how did you miss the Gallup Tea Party demographics poll???) is for our out of control government to adhere to the Constitution, which protects us FROM government tyranny. ALL governments will, left unchecked (and we have been asleep at the wheel), become corrupt. OUR GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPT. Too much taxation and too much government = declining prosperity for EVERYONE. Yes, we are headed for a downward spiral in the name of “redistribution.” Trust history, the government will never make a poor person wealthy, but it will keep them waiting with their hands out. Freedom, liberty, and a government under control opens the doors of opportunity that grant EVERYONE the chance for prosperity. Our history is the greatest example of the blessings of liberty!

OK, to be fair, the Tea Party does incite angry mobs, but those mobs are Tea Party Opposition groups who deplore Freedom of Speech and the right to expressive assembly. Those peaceably assembled to express their grievances with the government, however, cannot be held responsible for the reprehensible actions of the current administration supporters, including the irresponsible journalism demonstrated above.

Shame on you, Andy. And shame on the “Independent.”

More Tea Party hate. It’s the only party that stands against things, without being for anything. It’s really too bad the party is so afraid. Fear is not a rational motivator.
Also, lest these self-rigteous Tea Partiers forget, it was through the freedom, privileges, and responsibilities offered in this countrfy that allowed the rich to make so much money. It is the rich that should be thankful, not everyone else.
It is too bad there is such a selfish element in our country that doesn’t want to pay taxes, when it was prior generations that paid dearly for baby-boomers to get a high quality education and see that our country prospered. Now, those children want to deny others?
If Tea Partiers feel so strongly about the illegality of the Federal Government taxing for such things as Social Security and Medicare, then they should return their benefits and Medicare card to the US Treasury to be credited toward the debt. That’s called having principles. Short of that, it’s just whining and complaining.

The caller appears to be Ed Motch, a printer who contracts with the state of Minnesota (talk about “sucking at the public tit”). We didn’t publish his name initially because we wanted to pay due diligence to getting his side of the story (he didn’t respond to our efforts to discuss the story with him) and documenting the call more fully.

I think the time has long passed for Tea Partiers to define themselves and publish what they stand for. Heaven knows they stand against a lot of things. However, I can’t accept the organization as viable or credible with no known platform. Certainly, followers must know? If so, what are they doing?

To this point, I have found the Tea Party to be a rabble of fearful, hateful, and antagonistic people. The seem filled with more whine than constructive solutions.

So far, the Tea Party seems to be a loosley gathered bunch of whiners who don’t have the intellectual horsepower for constructive solutions. They seem to be based on negativity, hate and fear, with a healthy case of ignorant self-righteousnes.

You tea-partiers are priceless! If you don’t like the news, it must be a lie. None of your folks could act badly, it must be provacateurs trying to make you look bad.

Well, you’re right: the whole thing has been a plot to provoke angry mobs of right-wing whiners. Barack Obama was never elected President by a healthy majority–the librul media just told you that to antagonize you. Health care reform never passed–it was just a strategy to get you riled up. The whole thing was done to make a bunch of obnoxious blowhards look even worse.

It feels good to know the truth, doesn’t it?

I’ve been trying to post on the latest article, but I keep getting an error, so here it is.

Just wanted to say that I’m happy that the Independent finally decided to grow some balls and print the source of the call.
Also – last paragraph -”Mont?” If you are speaking about Ms. Munt, please correct the spelling of her name, I know she would correct the spelling of your name if she got it incorrect.
To all of my State employed Union Brothers and Sisters, stay strong and stay proud, despite all the crazy lunatics out there who don’t appreciate the work you do — just like “majii” stated above “A nut is a nut, regardless of political affiliation.” I should know — Corrections and Political Organizer – 5+ years

Let’s go over this story:.

Paul: Thanks for running the name. Now, I’ve been involved in three straight Tea Party rallies, and I have yet to meet an Ed Motch. Not to say he’s not an organizer, but the article did pretty clearly imply that he was a “organizer” in the movement. If he is, it’s news to me; a cursory google shows that most of the references to Ed Motch come from…the Mindy!

Andy: Leaving aside all the other holes in the story (which I note here: http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=10096 ), as the previous poster asked, where IS the threat? The caller seemed to tell AFSCME they’d be losing their government jobs, and asking them to come to the rally and identify themselves as state union employees.

I mean, profanity is a sign one is nekulturnii, but as threats go, it really, er, wasn’t.

And could you please followup with a the list of the angry, violent mobs that your AFSCME friend was referring to?

Finally, Paul and Andy – come on down to the rally! You can be my guest (which means I’ll front you a bottle of water). Of course, if you’re looking for frothing hatred (and I know you are), you’ll be disappointed, but that WOULD be news, wouldn’t it?

Mitch: I realize you relish in finding reason to criticize my writing, but the word “threat” has been used by every media outlet that has covered this issue including the local affiliate for Fox:

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/minn.-afscme-chapter-receives-threatening-messages-april-14-2010

http://wcco.com/local/afscme.profane.voicemail.2.1634665.html

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/04/14/tax-threats/?refid=0

In each report, a connection to the Tea Party is made.

I would also note that I have been the only reporter to publish the name of the man suspected of making the calls.

I’ll look forward to your “Fresh Fisk” or whatever you call it taking these yellow journalists to task.

Mitch: I realize you relish in finding reason to criticize my writing,

Well, no, Andy – while it may not feed anyone’s sense of victimhood, I have been up-front about complimenting your writing when called for.

Sloppy reporting that uncritically hews to Media Matters chanting points, on the other hand? Well, yeah. I criticise.

but the word “threat” has been used by every media outlet that has covered this issue including the local affiliate for Fox:

Not sure what that’s supposed to mean. News flash; media outlets, especially TV stations, are like herds of cattle; they go where they’re driven. Perhaps your opinion is that if a media outlet says it, I need to shut up and accept it? Because they “include” the word?

I don’t know what any of the linked outlets consider “threats”, but based on what you posted, I’m just not seeing it.

By the way – while Fox News’ network coverage may or may not have a conservative viewpoint, the local newsroom does not. Not sure if the reference to their coverage was supposed to support your case, but you’ll need to do better.

In each report, a connection to the Tea Party is made.

I checked.
– Fox said the caller invited AFSCME to come to the event.
– CCO made no specific link.
– I’m currently unable to open the MPR piece, but I have
a hunch they go no further.

What’s the “connection?” He’s angry about taxes, he has a big, foul mouth, and he may or may not have any actual substantial involvement with whatever “organization” there is, according to what he may have said on the phone – but there’s no evidence to support it that I can find.

I would also note that I have been the only reporter to publish the name of the man suspected of making the calls.

Yep. And I thanked you (pl) above.

Now – could you come up with a little thicker connection than his ostensible telephoned claim to be a Tea Party organizer? Or perhaps cop to the fact that you’re playing guilt by association based on no actual evidence?

I’ll look forward to your “Fresh Fisk” or whatever you call it taking these yellow journalists to task.

Perhaps I will. But so far, having read two out of three, I’m seeing little to fisk other than their regurgitating the claim that this was any kind of “terroristic threat”, based solely on AFSCME’s claim [1] which, on about the tenth reading, seems to be just a tad hyperbolic.

What, specifically, was the “threat?” Was it the “you won’t have goverment jobs” bit, or was it the “come to the rally” bit?

[1] Reminds me of the episode of the office where someone left a dook on Michael Scott’s office floor. He whined “I’m the victim of a hate crime!”. Stanley replied “That’s not a hate crime”. Scott: Well, I hated it!…

Mitch, did you watch the full Fox video? They make the exact same characterizations of the caller having Tea Party ties that we do.

“Perhaps your opinion is that if a media outlet says it, I need to shut up and accept it? Because they “include” the word?”

No, I’m saying my writing is not outside of the realm of journalistic standards and your accusation of yellow journalism is bogus.

And it was your criticism over the use of the word “threat” that I was responding to.

“Well, no, Andy – while it may not feed anyone’s sense of victimhood, I have been up-front about complimenting your writing when called for.”

The only time I’ve seen you compliment my writing is as as a setup with the pretense of being fair-minded. It goes something like: “while I sometimes enjoy Andy Birkey’s writing — he’s not half bad, but what he wrote today was totally parroting George Soros and Al Gore.”

And that was really more rhetorical. I don’t read your blog except on the odd occasion you comment here, so I don’t know that you have or have not been upfront about compliments. I’m not really that concerned about compliments.

Tea party? Tea party? I’ll bring the scones if someone brings Twinings Earl Gray.

Karen, you really need to take a look at history instead of talking about it. We are the government, we determine the bounds, including what the constitution says. Get outside your limitations. Our “founders” were 18th century land owners who could not resolve the issues of their own time (like slavery), and so make compromises that are not optimal solutions for those problems let alone solutions to 21st century problems. The founding “fathers did not even grant voting rights to people like you (i.e. women). Even the founders knew their document was flawed, so they issued 10 amendments to it right off the bat. It is irrational to believe the constitution is some sore of sacred, perfect or even beautifully crafted document. Frankin said he had to hold his nose to support the document. We have 21st century problems and we must adapt. And, of course, constitutional law is what the supreme court says it is.

Why are you not concerned by private, profit seeking corporations overstepping their bounds? History, if you care to take a look at it, clearly shows that corporations will overstep whatever bounds you care to set up to the detriment of the country and most people. You can check out history of about a year ago for evidence of what I just claimed, but this sort of thing has happened many times in the past. The 18th century land owners did not have to deal with powerful corporations and I doubt they would say that corporations are entitled to the same rights they granted people. Or that such entities should be able to control our government via contributions and lobbying.

You need to speak for yourself, not average “folks”. You cannot speak for average folks and you have no idea what average folks want just because you might be one. Let me just say that there is little reason to think that average folks are in the best position solve our complex problems. Average folks seem incapable of thinking for themselves about true threats to their freedom and unable to see beyond the control of the rich and powerful interest who so try to mislead them. Why do you want to help people loose their freedom and prosperity to organization guided by no ethics other than to make money? Has not the greed and lying that nearly brought the country down recently made you see where the true CORRUPTION (which apparently must be capitalized) is? Reducing taxes over the last 20 years has increased the decline in prosperity for, not everyone, but for all but the very rich. The redistribution that has been occurring has be from the lower and middle class to the upper class. So what in the world are you talking about? Get a grip on reality.

Ditto, Rob, well said, eloquently spoken, represent!

I’ll never understand this ‘spit on the chin’ yelping about the rich not paying their fair share. Good Lord, if it weren’t for the rich providing jobs and re-investing their profits in the private sector this whole country would be like Detroit where the environment for business was destroyed. This whole debate is not about the rich not contributing but instead it’s about vilifying the fruits of hard work and success in favor of looking to the government for everything.
We’ve left the growth of government unchecked for too long and the halls of Washington have actually become the house of rich arrogance we’re supposed to hate in the private sector. The left finds that ok & embraces it. It’s all about power and control over the people which is where the brilliance of our Constitution shines. It’s vital that we continue to hold our elected representatives feet to the fires of liberty and that they focus on the 18th century visions our founders had for this great country. Yes, they had slaves but don’t try to tell me that keeping good American citizens on welfare isn’t just another form of slavery. All todays slaves are expected to do is vote for the hand that feeds them and then keep quiet. That needs fixing and following the left around isn’t going to get it done.