Church behind anti-Islam ad to host national anti-gay marriage group

Who is funding the NOM? Are they laundering money for untaxed christianist corporations?

I actually know people who attend this church. What an unproductive and spiteful organization.

Like this was a big surprise for anyone, anyway. But still, it’s nice to know. Keep up the good work, Andy!

Jeez, it’s the 21st century, why not focus on more pressing issue?
Onward to full civil and marriage equality rights,
Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace,
Washington, Connecticut, USA.

Yeah let the muslims take over, then we won’t have to put up with the fools and clowns that are part of this crazy church. I fear these damned so called fake christians than any muslims.

Minnesota as a battleground concerning same-sex marriage?
Cripes, even Wellstone voted for the federal DOMA law.

No one is acheiving anything constructive or progressive about improving human rights in Minnesota, at least that I’ve heard.

These parishioners seem rather like confused flood relief workers showing up during a drought

Mill,

You’d actually be surprised to hear that LGBTQ rights are very likely to be passed if we can get a Democratic governor elected this year. The sole reason nothing much has moved forward is Tim Pawlenty and his damnable vetoes.

Also, yes, Sen. Wellstone voted for DOMA, but he later expressed regret for that vote. Times change. People change. Time is in favor of gay rights.

I wonder if this Church or the group coming from outside the state will be having any public functions… say in a park… with lots of supporters.. you know the perfect place to handout pornographic books for free or maybe give away Satanist Bibles while denouncing the chosen life style of these Christian bigots.

The Mormon Church appears to be behind the National Organization for Marriage. That’s the subject of a new documentary:

http://vimeo.com/12217782

http://www.mormongate.com/

Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality.

(Change *** to www)
***.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
***.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
***.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
***.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
***.gaychristian101.com/

Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like you don’t choose the color of your skin, you cannot choose whom you are sexually attracted to. If you can, sorry, but you are not heterosexual, you are bi-sexual. Virtually all major psychological and medical experts agree that sexual orientation is NOT a choice. Most gay people will tell you its not a choice. Common sense will tell you its not a choice. While science is relatively new to studying homosexuality, studies tend to indicate that its biological.

(Change *** to www)
***-news.uchicago.edu/releases/03/differential-brain-activation.pdf
***.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html
Gay, Straight Men’s Brain Responses Differ
***.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155990,00.html
***.livescience.com/health/060224_gay_genes.html
***.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/

The National Library of Medicine pubs confirm that sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced in the first trimester of pregnancy, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, bearing no relation to an individuals ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, to work or to contribute to society.

From the American Psychological Association: homosexuality is normal; homosexual relationships are normal.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Asociation and American Psychiatric Asociation have endorsed civil marriage for same-sex couples because marriage strengthens mental and physical health and longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents and seniors.

America’s premier child/mental health associations endorse marriage equality.

Good article, Andy.

shadow_man, thanks for the good posts.

So the Granite City Baptist Church just says ‘no’ to freedom of religion…Let’s start with them.

This is awesome, a local church is going to teach the only way out of the bondage of sin that has so many are trapped in.

The love of Jesus Christ is the only escape from all sin and the local church is the only one who seems to care enough about people to share this – regardless of the cost.

Yet, you can see the hated in the comments of those that oppose this message being shared. The very people that claim to support the gays are the people that are destroying them.

The hatred found in the opposition to the gay agenda exposed the real source of evil that is our rebellion against God and our refusal to acknowledge the existence of evil or sin or even God. Yet rebellion against God is foolishness because it cannot lead to anything but destruction.

Read the scriptures, it’s all there, the complete explanation of the fallen state of man – trapped in the bondage of sin from birth.

“The hatred found in the opposition to the gay agenda…”

Yes, there is a lot of hatred in the opposition to the gay agenda, isn’t there?

But that’s all born out of Christian Fear. You can’t be a good xtian without living in Fear.

I’ts hard to get your average churchgoer charged up without giving them an enemy to rally against, but the Gay Agenda (not the real one, but the one based on lies told by flat-earth morons) provides a lot of fear to work with.

That, or it’s just a really big cult trying to advance its existence, and acceptance of homersexuals happens to negate its message and beliefs.

WWJB? (Who Would Jesus Badmouth?)

Sadly, probably these faux “Christians” before anyone else. Jesus never said a word about homosexuality, but that’s all these people seem to think about, day and night. They need therapy.

Another example of righteous,compassionate christianity in action.What a bunch of lunatics!As I have stated before and I will continue to state it.Religion,ANY RELIGION is nothing but a lot of hocus pocus,mumbo jumbo,voodoo bullshit!!!

Islam is a danger to the US and the Western world so I don’t see any problem with a church making people aware of this. People should stop with this political correctness BS. Fighting ignorance among Americans when it comes to islam is increasingly important. Sad but true. I support the church 100% in its fight against islam.

@Dave – Christians don’t live on fear, but on every word of God. (Matthew 4:4)

Matthew 14:27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid.”

We have no fear of the gay agenda or the people behind it.

It is the Lord that we fear, which requires us to hate evil as Jesus said,

Proverbs 1: 7 — “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge”

Proverbs 8:13 — “To fear the LORD is to hate evil”.

The gay agenda represents the promotion of evil, which no Christian will ever support – unless they willing reject the scriptures and call themselves what they are not.

The spirit of the anti-Christ is the rebellions against God and the love of evil, which is gaining momentum as we approach the last days just as scripture predicted.

The gay agenda will never be able to make something that is evil into something good, even if they are able to convince a few people to believe so. God is the judge and He has written what is good and evil for everyone to see.

Well Tim, not everyone wants to base their lives on a collection of pieces of fiction assembled with a political agenda in mind over a thousand years ago.

Christianity is going the same way the Dinosaur went.. DEAD!! I hope I witness it in my lifetime.. These Neo Christio losers are so afraid of their own repressed sexual debauchery that they create groups like NOM.. Which is funded by TAX EXEMPT Wall* Mart style corporate churches..
What a bunch of retarded LOSERS “[( L )]“

@marcus_w71 – Are you kidding? Many studies and books have shown that the most enjoyable and meaningful sexual relationships and experience are found between a husband and wife.

These people should all be sent to the Holocaust museum to see where their type of politics ends up.

@Tim – Really? I question the credibility of those “studies and books” given the proliferation of pre- and extra- marital affairs many of which lead to unwanted children and divorce; swingers clubs; the heaviest users of Internet porn being in Utah; and who knows what else goes on which reminds me of this oft-quote:

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn’t mean that God doesn’t love heterosexuals. It’s just that they need more supervision.

*yawn* (rolling eyes here)

[...] National Organization for Marriage (NOM) will bring its anti-gay marriage campaign to Granite City Baptist Church, a church whose pastor took out an anti-Islam ad in the St. Cloud Times in April. NOM will host a [...]

@Tim. You don’t have to be married to be in a meaningful relationship nor do have to be married to have sex.. Opinions are like A$$holes. Everyone has one and they all stink.. Any shlub with an opinion can write a book.

//Are you kidding? Many studies and books have shown that the most enjoyable and meaningful sexual relationships and experience are found between a husband and wife.//

Are YOU kidding? I’m sure that’s why so many gays and lesbians who married the opposite sex are SO happy right now: because the lovin’ in bed was just so damn irresistable.

Well, I may not have had sex with a vagina, but I know for sure even the thought of it repulses me on a level you cannot imagine.

Can’t think without your buybull, huh, Tim?

@Progressively Queer – Then I guess you don’t know what you’re missing do you? If only you knew that your creator waits everyday for you to turn back to him, like a father. But unless you turn from the evil that lives within you, your relationship cannot be restored. Stop hating your father, turn from your sin and ask for forgiveness, and save your soul in the process. God is a real as the hand on your arm and I dare you to ask him to show himself to you. Cry out to him in arger or love or pain for any other emotion that you want to, then watch for him to respond and you will be amazed.

Then Jesus said, “Father forgive Tim, for he know not what he is talking about.”

Listen to Tim, PQ – all you need is the warm blanket of an imaginary friend, and you too can learn to talk like a deranged cult recruiter.

Dear Tim,

//Then I guess you don’t know what you’re missing do you? If only you knew that your creator waits everyday for you to turn back to him, like a father. But unless you turn from the evil that lives within you, your relationship cannot be restored. Stop hating your father, turn from your sin and ask for forgiveness, and save your soul in the process. God is a real as the hand on your arm and I dare you to ask him to show himself to you. Cry out to him in arger or love or pain for any other emotion that you want to, then watch for him to respond and you will be amazed.//

You make a lot of insulting assumptions in this post.

Yes, I’ve never slept with a woman. But countless stories of other queer men who have, who furthermore marry those women and end up having children with those women, and then hating themselves so much for living a lie, is not something I plan on following suit. I know what I’m missing, and to be honest, I’m not missing it at all.

My Creator and I are on very good terms, thank you very much. I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me where my Creator and I stand with each other. Sodomy is between God and me. ;)

Also, you assume that I *haven’t* cried out to God in any emotion, when in fact just maybe I have, and you assume that God isn’t fine with the way She created me, when in fact maybe She is.

And sadly, God isn’t as real as the hand on my arm, because unlike the hand on my arm, I can’t see God, feel God, lick the backside of God, hear God banging on the wooden table beside my bed, or smell God. Try again, Tim.

Stop hating queers, and maybe you’ll discover the real God of the universe just waiting for you to open up yourself to Her love.

Until then, take your Christian BS (and by BS, of COURSE I mean Bachelor of Science) and put it in your head, which is located in the deepest part of your ass imaginable.

But gee, thanks. :) I’m glad we had this discussion. I feel so much more enlightened. As if you were the first to tell me what a wonderful sinner I am (not) and what a beautiful Savior God is(n’t).

Good night. Sleep tight. Don’t let the Jedi’s bite.

Yeah Progressively Queer!! Accept JEEEEESUS ! Get back in your closet and lie to the whole world about who you are.. It’s the CHRISTIAN way!!

@Dave – I give you the same challenge that PQ is afraid to take. Dare God to show himself to you.

@Progressively Queer – Interesting response. It comes down to your identity. Who you are vs. who you think you are. You are a sinner by your own admission just as I am.

We were created into the same sinful nature with the same desire to rebell against God. Your desire to follow your sin nature isn’t any different them mine. I have a nature desire to be with every good looking woman I see, yet I restrain myself to remain faithful to my wife – not for her – but for me.

Because I know that it will damage by relationship with my creator and that I cannot live without. Therefore my motivation for self-control is found in my intimate relationship with God. The intimate relationship I have with my wife is a model of the intimate relationship God has with his people. The reason our creator wants us to follow his commands is for our benefit, because we are designed to function as husband and wife. Outside of that design will never live up to as much as if we live without our design. It’s like if you drive your car off-road rather then a truck that has been designed to drive off-road. The car will never be as good or fulfilling.

I know you my think that it is nearly impossible to accape the relationships you are in, but that is not true. Many have found a new life, a new way to live and Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the only life in this world.

What’s wrong with reality, Tim?

Question for Tim>>>> If Anger is a sin…. And God is an Angry God.. Then is God a Sinner????

@marcus_w71 – The definision of sin is rebellion against God. For God to sin he would have to rebell against himself. His anger is against evil because he is righteous and just and loves his creation. He is angry with evil because he loves you and I. If he was not angry with evil, which is constantly at work destorying us, he could not love us.

It is because of His great love for us that he hates the work of evil in our lives. And that same motivation of love for us compelled God to sacrifice the life of his son for us on the cross. No one in the world would sacrifice their son for us because no one loves you and I much as God does. He is the only one that has this great love for us.

Rejecting his love for us is dumbest thing we can do in this life. He is truely the only one that realy gives a shit about you and I whether we realize it or not.

@Tim

“Vanity” Is an inflated pride in oneself or one’s appearance ..So if your using “God’s Name in Vain” aren’t you basically using God’s name to increase bolster your own appearance ??

@marcus_w71 – I am not suggesting that I am more valuable to God then you or anyone else. I boast only in what God has done on the cross, taking my place.

The truth about God is clearly in the scriptures for everyone to read. I speak about that truth and you should test what I say by reading it for yourself – just as billions before us have done.

P.S. How is your hand today?

@Tim>>

Good.. I actually respect people that use scripture to benefit themselves.. I come from a belief that ANY religious text should be used as a “Stepping Stone” and NOT a “Throwing Stone” .. I used to be a Born Again Christian myself.. I HATED it!!EVERY MINUTE! I thought that the excuse to pray to God because your a sinner was Futile.. There are people that believe that they can sin 777 times and get away with MURDER (or petting little boy’s).. In reality most normal people learn after the first time what is right and what is wrong .. I am now AGNOSTIC!! and I LOVE it!!
Why Republicans associate themselves with Christianity is INSANE to me!! Karl Rove is an ATHEIST for Gods Sake! (pardon the French)!! Jesus stood up against the Oligarchs(the Pharisees) and he gave FREE health care to the SICK!!!! He also stood up against the gamblers in the synagogues.. Personally… I think Jesus was a Socialist… Shhhhhhhh

@Tim>> PS…. My Hand????? What the HELL are you talking about??

“Question for Tim>>>> If Anger is a sin…. And God is an Angry God.. Then is God a Sinner????”

Well, there is that little thing about creating hell to torment his followers with…what a bastard.

> The intimate relationship I have with my wife is a model of the intimate relationship God has with his people.

Wow.

Just imagine the enormous responsibility Tim and his wife has in showing God how She should be towards her people. UFF DA!

Better not get divorced, then. YOU BETCHA!

@Dave – If God did not enforce due punnishment for sin he would not be just. And without justice He would not be righteous. Justice must be served. But He also made a way to take our place, motivated by love for us He gave His son’s life.

@marcus_w71 – Interesting story. A lot of people call themselves ‘Born Again Christian’ yet build a cultish religion around some of the Christian ideas while rejecting the others that reveil their foolishness. Satan is alive and well and he is the father of lies. The best lie is the closest to the truth. That is why the cults that work the best at leading people astray are based on a majority of Christianity, with a slight twist that leads people away from who Jesus Christ realy is and what He did.

For the most part, the identity of Christian has been stolen in America. But yet the truth about Jesus Christ remains the truth. Even the church that is hosting this event has some questionable beliefs about the role and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But never the less, as flawed as organized churches are, they have the answer and continues to point people to Jesus Christ.

The reason Republicans associate themselves with Christianity is because Christianity is the foundation of a civil society, which upholds the cultural mandate for peaceful social and economic wellbeing. Without Christianity as the foundation the world would fall apart and result in chaos and war. I don’t have space to elaborate this point but in short – Christian is fundamental to global civility because it is the only true source of the truth about man and God. Christianity is the source of liberty, justice, identity, family and even the economy by way of the institution of the ten commandments into law. A world without Christianity is a world of complete destruction. If is was not for Christianity we would not be having this conversation because we would most likely be already dead.

And once you have this understand you realized that the Democratic party that is based on the rebellion against God is on a path to self destruction. In short, the vision of the Democratic party is civil and economic suiside.

Then Jesus said, “Father forgive Tim, for he know not what he is talking about.”

@Tim ~~”"The reason Republicans associate themselves with Christianity is because Christianity is the foundation of a civil society, which upholds the cultural mandate for peaceful social and economic wellbeing.”"~~

That’s not true Tim.. Throughout history Empires rise and fall.. America is on the waning end of her Imperialism (or what Republicans call “Exceptional-ism”) Egypt had an Empire, Greece had an Empire, the Aztec’s and Inca’s had civil society, Not to mention Rome, the British Empire and Spain.. The downfall of most of these cultures was either War or Religious oppression (followed by economic destruction)..

The Bible I “used” to read would probably find it very offensive that Jesus was being clumped into the “New American Pharisee” (the republican party)

Jesus!! Please save us from the “Christians”..

Sounds like a great dinner guest, doesn’t he?

@Dave…. LOLOL

I’m sure it would be my “Last Supper” … At Tim’s house anyway..

@Marcus – Yes that is true, other nations have risen and fallen under a tyrannical dictator.

There are realy only two ways to govern man. With the Bible or with the sword. But the Bible is only way to create a free society that supports liberty, justice and freedom of speech and a free economy that is capable of great prosperity.

This is why America has become the greatest nation in the history of the world, because of its Christian heritage. And the entire world has greatly benefited from America as freedom was defended and promoted throughout the world. One nation with a culture of Christianity is so effective that is can sustain the entire world as America has done.

Per the Constitution, when the US enters into a treaty, it becomes the law of the land. From the Treaty of Tripoli, from George Washington’s last year as president:

“”As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

Didya catch that, Jimmeee?? One more time:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

It “officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797.”

@Dave – What is that gibberish?

Our founding fathers knew that the teachings of Jesus Christ were essential to the survival of our nation, when they wrote;

James Madison, the father of our constitution,

“We have staked the whole future of America civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”

Samuel Adams, another founding father of our nation said,

“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

Romans 5:8 says, “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Jesus Christ died so that we would understand how great His love is for us. It is from this understanding that we are able to love each other and build a prosperous economy.

There is no other greater understanding in the entire world and no other greater way to motivate people to love each other. This is the cornerstone of a strong economy.

Compiled by the greatest and only source of love in the universe, we build honest businesses that benefit each other with everything from employment to profits to products and service.

The natural result is the most efficient economy that is humanly possible, build on savings and production for the betterment of everyone. Supported by a Christian culture, capitalism, which is the freedom of labor and capital has allowed America to become the greatest nation in history of the world.

@Tim.. Holy Crap!! Pardon the French.. LOL..

What happens when “The Bible” AND “The Sword” are used to “DICTATE” the free will of ALL Men(humans)?? What you end up with is The Spanish Inquisition.. If what your extremist agenda is , Is to fight…. LET”S GO!!.. Tim do you realize why people disassociate themselves from YOUR religion?? It’s because of people like YOU??? TRUST ME .. I am one of ‘em..

JESUS!!!!! SAVE US FROM CHRISTIAN’S!!!!!!!!

Those words you call “gibberish” is actual history, Wonder Bunny, unlike the Buybull. Not just something one of them said, something the Executive Branch and Congress did in performing their duties.

Match that against something somebody “said”.

Saying “Our founding fathers knew that the teachings of Jesus Christ were essential to the survival of our nation” and the rest of that Christian Dominionist vomit is not supported by any facts, though obviously you don’t care about anything like that.

All of the people who had a hand in writing the Constitution had every chance to make some sort of connection to Christianity written into law, but the closest any came was to mention the all-encompassing “Creator.”

Try harder, you’re not a very good “witness”.

On the other hand, this part is outright funny and disgusting: “we build honest businesses that benefit each other with everything from employment to profits” This is complete and unfathomable ignorance of the history of this nation. A lot of our labor laws were fought for and gained with blood, not Christian generosity. This level if ignorance defecates on the memory of those who suffered and sometimes died to be treated with dignity.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

@Dave – I think you need to do some more research.

Here is an excellent book: Rediscovering God in America: Reflections on the Role of Faith in Our Nation’s History

http://www.amazon.com/Rediscovering-God-America-Reflections-Nations/dp/B00150GI28/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279639570&sr=8-4

@Marcus – If you were only part of a ‘religion’ then you did the right thing in leaving rather then remaining part of a system of control while worshiping false gods.

But if you ever have an encounter with God, you will never be the same person again I guarantee it.

Read about Paul’s encounter with Jesus and how before that encounter he was convinced that Christianity was not about the real God, so much so that he was trying to kill as many Christians as he could find – up until the day he meet Jesus face-to-face.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+9%3A1-19&version=NIV

Newt Gingrich? You’re recommending a book by Newt? Seriously?

I think, therefore I don’t listen to the RNC’s own little Joseph Goebbels.

I do find this review of the book appropriate:

“Even though Gingrich has been married three times, is known to have delivered divorce papers to his first wife when she was undergoing cancer treatment in the hospital, is reported to have a penchant for oral sex with women other than his wife, was fined $300,000 by the House Ethics Committee in 1997 for making false statements during an investigation and is widely known to have been in a lengthy extramarital affair with Anne Manning, a campaign staffer, during his second marriage while the Clinton impeachment was going on, there is no man who is better suited to advise Americans on how to rediscover God and instructing us about the role of faith in our nation’s history.”

For some reason, I seriously doubt Newt mentions that the Capitol building is practically a freakin’ Masonic Temple.

Also, it’s too bad you don’t have any more recent accounts of an encounter with gawd than Paul. But then, at least I have a picture of Bigfoot.

@Dave – That is typical to try an discredit the messager when facing the evidence.

How about the first president; George Washington said,

“It is impossible to rightly govern in this world without God and the Bible.”

Newt would never leave out any conflicting evidence, and I have a bridge for sale. Newt discredits himself with a long history of dishonesty. You discredit yourself by ignoring it.

How about thinking for yourself, dear ewe?

There is no proof that George said that, but it’s obvious you really need to believe it.

@Dave – George said that are right, but I don’t think it matters to you. You are hell bent on your rebellion against God even if it kills you. I cannot help you and you are not about to help yourself. Only a genuine encounter with God would convince you otherwise, just as Paul experienced.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+9%3A1-19&version=NIV

Jesus is alive and well today as ever, ruling His kingdom. You can read about Him in the scriptures but that is nothing like a personal encounter.

@Dave – There is no goodness in the heart of man. Without Christ you are in a desperately sick state of mind that you cannot even understand.

Jeremiah 17:9 – The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

Ecclesiastes 9:3 – This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for all men. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead.

“George said that are right”

Where, exactly? People have been studying this guy for a couple hundred years, funny no one can pinpoint that quote. Perhaps if you had an education you might understand the concept of “original source material”.

“Without Christ you are in a desperately sick state of mind that you cannot even understand.”

So I take it that’s a big fat NO on the question about you thinking for yourself.

Maybe these people can help you:
http://walkawayers.org/

Here is a great source of information about how to leave the homosexual lifestyle.

http://www.exodusinternational.org/

Of all the gay people I know, and I admit I don’t know any really well, I find it ludicrous to believe that any of them would call it a “lifestyle”.

So, who would consider approaching a group like Exodus that wasn’t a self-hating, brainwashed Christian? I know a few of those, too.

Of course it is a lifestyle, just an every sin is a choice, only a fool would think somehow they are forced to have sex with each other. If homosexuality is not a lifestyle then they are serial rapists.

Exodus has helps hundreds of people that were NOT Christians excape the homosexual lifestyle that has become an ideology of enslavement. How the gay agenda treats people that have left the lifestyle is evidence that it is nothing short of a cult as it keeps feeding its members lies about their identity and keeps them isolated from other ideas and those that have left the cult.

This is why the internet is very dangerous for the gay agenda cult because they cannot control the information that is shared. Perhaps they assign people to try and defind their position on blogs like this one.

Have you been assigned to this discussion?

@Dave – Here is a website that gives many references to the quote.

George Washington said,

“It is impossible to rightly govern in this world without God and the Bible.”

http://www.restoringourheritage.com/quotes.htm

By the way, Newts book is full of quotes like this one from the nations founding fathers.

Rediscovering God in America: Reflections on the Role of Faith in Our Nation’s History

http://www.amazon.com/Rediscovering-God-America-Reflections-Nations/dp/B00150GI28/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279639570&sr=8-4

But so what? Even if you lose this argument you can still choose your lifestyle.

@Dave – Are you defending the gay agenda because you hate God or because you sincerely believe that something good can come from forcing its agenda on society?

Tim, there is still no original source material in the link you provided. You won’t find it, it does not exist. People who do that for a living have not verified it. Somebody made it up. It is not the first time someone has dishonestly made up something to make Washington look more Xtian than he was.

I gave you something better than a quote. I gave you a treaty negotiated by the President Washington, enacted into law by the Senate, and you called it gibberish.

You have similarly ignored or dismissed a lot of really good points other posters have brought to the discussion that have clearly refuted some of the crap you have posted.

Somewhere you learned or decided that reality was something you could mold to your beliefs, and that’s not a position that asks or deserves any respect.

And when people like you teach this dishonesty as a way of life to children, some rational people begin to believe that religion poisons minds.

…and Newt is still a propagandist, a hypocrite, and a liar.

“Are you defending the gay agenda because…”

Neither.

“Have you been assigned to this discussion?”

No.

@Dave – “Newt is still a propagandist, a hypocrite, and a liar”.

So what? scripture says we are all liers. Newt is not the answer, he just wrote a book about the foundation of our nation.

“The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked” – Jeremiah 17:9

We are wicked from birth, which is why our nations leaders separated the powers of our government. To slow down the corruption of our government.

Truth is not relative to the culture or society. Truth cannot be changed by how someone feels or what they want to believe. Truth cannot be refuted because it is the truth. The definition and the identity of man and God is defined in the scriptures for everyone to read. If you want to try and change that you need to have this conversation with God.

There is a God, we are sinners and Jesus Christ is the only salvation. You cannot believe in a lie and believe in the truth at the same time or you are just deceiving yourself.

There is no neutral position to take. You are either for the knowledge of Jesus Christ or your are against it. You are either part of His kingdom or you are against it.

Jesus said, He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. – Matthew 12:30.

You either love God and hate sin or you hate God and love evil.

Which one is it going to be?

“what happened to the Golden Rule” treat others as you yourself would like to be treated. marriage is about the committment between two adults. their sexually preferrence should not matter, how committed they are to one another is.

If you think with her heart or listen to your soul you know supporting one another with love is the right thing to do. “Standing on the side of Love”

@Patty – God is the source of love and He hates evil. You cannot have love without God. You are only fooling yourself to think that the promotion of evil in someones life is loving them.

The Golden Rule still applies. If I were trapped in a sinful lifestyle, keeping from a relationship with God, I can only hope someone would love me enough to help me understand how destructive my lifestyle is and show me the way out.

In reality, only someone that actknowledges sin can help someone trapped by sin. Gay supporters cannot help each other out of the lifestyle. Gay leaders are their biggest enemies as they work to pull their followers deeper into the lifestyle and telling them it is ok.

“So what? scripture says we are all liers.”

So what? You held up Newt as a source of knowledge, genius.

“scripture says we are all liers.” I really don’t care what your “scripture” says. It certainly doesn’t excuse your lies.

I don’t remember who Jeremiah is, and I don’t care. He sounds like a bitter, joyless old man.

“We are wicked from birth” Speak for yourself.

When you speak of Truth, dear ewe, it’s pretty obvious your immutable Truth is not affected by Facts, Reason, and Logic.

The rest of your post is loonier gibberish.

“You are only fooling yourself to think that the promotion of evil in someones life is loving them. ”

He’s got that “wicked” thing down, doesn’t he?

@Dave – Joy can only be understood when we are freed from sin and are forgiven. You can have sex, but you cannot have joy and sex without following Gods definition of marriage.

You can talk about your happiness, like if it were real, but real joy cannot be found without forgiveness.

The greatest news in the world is that everyone can be forgiven. Repent and sin no more.

Read Romans 10 – “9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ”

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010&version=NIV

@Dave – Off course we are wicked from birth.

Romans 3:23 – for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

And the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:23 – For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Without believing in Jesus Christ as the son of God, who died for our sins, we remain condemed, unforgiven and must pay the price for our own sins. And there is no other way to gain forgiveness from God.

John 14:6 – Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Dave life is short, believe in Jesus Christ and be forgiven before it is over.

Tim, your posts are proof that being xtian means to live in Fear, and your comments about pretty much anything outside the Buy-Bull are deranged.

@Dave – Your posts prove that you are as good as dead because apart from Christ their is no life.

“you are as good as dead because apart from Christ their is no life”

How many times does one have to say crap like that before it stops sounding like it came from someone more than a few fries short of a Happy Meal?

@Dave – I think you should be honest with yourself and start a new group called, ‘Gays that hate Christians’.

I would probably have to actually be gay to start an association of gay people. Just being honest. Can’t help yourself making the accusation, though, can ya? Maybe you need to work on the lack of “goodness in your heart”.

Besides, all the gay people I do know are Christians, just not the primitive type.

I am sure there are lots of groups that would find it difficult to not hate “wicked” people like Tim, but one would be mistaken to consider Tim just a “Christian”. He is a very special kind of “Christian”. Some people call them “fundamentalists”. Some prefer “whack jobs suffering adaptive and dissociative effects of Xtian Fear”. I prefer “fundies”, because it sounds kinda happy and gay, and as we all know, they are all about the joy of living on this planet.

@Dave – I found a great book for you, “The Born Gay Hoax”

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/08a/born_gay_hoax/TheBornGayHoax.pdf

This book exposed the propaganda by the homosexual activists to trick the public into believing in their lies while proving that homosexuallity is a cureable disorder.

Your Gay Christian friends are not Christians as I have already explained. They need to believe that lie so they don’t feel guity about their sin and you also seem to think your the good guy.

The Christain scriptures that condemn homesexuality also condemn those that support it – that means you Dave.

“Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them. You therefore, have no excuse.. “ (Romans 1:32)

According to this, if someone calls themselves a Christian, yet approves of homosexuality by supporting same-sex marriage, they are guity of the same sin. Welcome to hell Dave.

@Dave – Perhaps I see an opportunity here …

This is becoming a hot topic with California’s Prop 8 and after this lengthly discussion, I have collected quite of bit of good information to dispel the lies of homosexuallity.

Perhaps I should write an eBook, I could sell quite a few on the Internet.

Thanks Dave for the lively discussion.

“I have collected quite of bit of good information to dispel the lies of homosexuallity. ”

Too bad you can’t do it without telling lies, yourself.

“Welcome to hell Dave.”

Well, I hope it makes you happy to believe in hell.

“The Christain scriptures that condemn homesexuality also condemn those that support it – that means you Dave. ”

As I said before, I don’t care what your “scriptures” say. “Foolish rules of ancient date, designed to make you all feel great” as the song goes.

@Dave – Ok let me see if I understand your situation. Your gay friends call themselves Christians, while completely dismissing Christian scripture and therefore your view of Christianity is that it is nothing but a shame.

If Christianity was the truth, Christians would not be hypocrites. They would walk the talk. They would ‘go and sin no more’ as Jesus said.

Your position makes it very difficult to see how Christianity could be anything but a control system based on someone’s made up ideas about God. I would be very skeptical of Christianity and it would be nearly impossible to convince me otherwise.

It doesn’t matter if you are born homosexual, or if it is biological… What matters is what the LORD says, and HE says do not do it. What makes it a sin is that the LORD says not to do it. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of same sex going on, and He detested same sex, and he also said that a man dressing like a woman and woman dressing as a man should not be done. People can twist the word of the Lord all they want to try to make it say what they want it to say, but inevitably, its their own salvation at stake. We are to love one another, hold the commandments, and walk in spirit not the flesh and live by the word. The word says what it says, stop trying to make it say otherwise.

I recently had a baby with my wife (the first and only wife). I can now understand what we are to God – confused little babies like my daughter. I understand now why we were designed to have children. So that we can experience a tiny part of what real unconditional love is. If the Bible teaches that God is Love, I experience feeling Love, thus I feel God — that is reality to me — seeing those little eyes disappear when she smiles.

Our bodies are designed for a task, without which there would be no people, or any loving thing for that matter. Everything in this universe has form or presence because down to the atom: opposites attract.

As a homosexual or transgendered, one deprives themselves of experience the love which created us all (like I with my wife created our daughter). Not allowing your true nature as u were built to function, is basically disfunction. So, as homosexuals point out, they’re born that way orbotherwise cannot control themselves makes them dysfunctional in the source of what’s blocking that ability — your brain. A dysfunctional brain within being is considered a mental disorder and requires mental therapy to correct the inability to comprehend reality, as do many unfortunate people who are “born that way” with a mental disability.

If homosexuality or transgendered, are concidered normal why don’t you produce something like the rest of the world and all that’s living on it does. Those that left their wife and kids weren’t living a lie – but angry at their choice of a spouse, but nevertheless Love their children. That anger gives birth to sin, or in your opinion of sin isn’t relative,anger creates thoughts of suicide, will to hurt, will to abandon, then excuse, and what’s better excuse then tell everyone you’re gay, if it’s accepted. That’s weak!

Don’t look for any sourcing on what I wrote, just a personal observation.

Also please note, that regardless of how often I’m harassed by gay and transgendered. I know that God does live you, teaches me to love you, so I pray that you all get well soon.

Please excuse my spelling, I was typing on my phone.