National Organization for Marriage’s anti-DFL text raises questions of legality

on saturday, october 30th, i got that very same message from text@nationformarriage.org

the interesting thing is that i voted by absentee ballot and have been living out of the country for many years (though i do vote in federal elections regularly).

i was very concerned about how they got my cellphone number and would even know to hunt it up…

This also leads way to the non partisan situation of groups like the MFC. Why are we allowing as tax payers for groups like NOM and MFC to get away with tax exempt status and or not have to file with the IRS on such matters!

NOM is evil incarnate! So full of hate and dishonesty!

Honesty has never been a defining virtue of the religious right.

The Extremest has a hold on the public, economic downfall, always has the cult like agenda filled hate mongers on the rise, we need to expose them for all that they are.

Our local MFC is at the root of the twin cities evil. I implore you to go to their website, their local blog and their facebook page and let their sheep know they are being led into the chambers not into the light.

Blinded by your hatred for anyone with a difference religion then yours, you guys are promoting intolerance and discrimination against these groups. MFC and NOM are the hope of MN and the nation as they resist the communist tyranny that is trying to create a theocracy to discriminate against Christian organizations.

@ Tim, This is not about Religion but the disguise of religion and the illegal use of the Church, our tax dollars. And you seriously need to look up the history of communist Tyranny, and dictatorship, for the forcing of ones thought a single thought onto the public is exactly what these two groups are doing.

They are partisan, and have a political agenda, They do not disclose the money they support and that is against the LAW!

The usual lefty ploy:
We must silence this dissent.
We must investigate anyone who does not agree with us.

Please do ask about the millions of tax dollars funneled into unions and other groups that support us.

We must silence all religious speech.

Actually, the religious have been in control of this country since its start. Also, the religious typically lead the charge against Islam by burning books and playing holier than thou despite their own shoddy record of violence and intolerance. Now, the religious are wanting to mix their goofy beliefs with politics (ironically making us more like backward Islamic countries). Theocracy is exactly the goal of the religious right. Such mixing is also contrary to the wishes of the founding fathers the right so much likes to pretend they are following. The most intolerant of all groups is religious fundamentalists, their discrimination against and mistreatment of homosexuals has a long long history. As they try to impose their unfounded beliefs they claim they are being persecuted.

MFC and NOM are among the tyrants trying to turn this country into a theocracy of religious persecution. Far from being “the hope of MN and the nation”, they exist to attack the rights of “anyone with a difference(sic) religion then(sic)” theirs.

The beliefs of those with strong religious convictions are not open to negotiation or compromise. When unbending religious convictions are applied to public policy and law, negotiation and compromise, both of which are core aspects of democracy and a free society, fall by the wayside. Without compromise, there can only be complete conformance – or tyranny.

Complete conformance rejects religious freedom, requiring all to conform to a single belief system. Yet religion is based on belief, and belief cannot be forced or legislated. Faith can only be by choice, or it is not real faith.

MFC and NOM promote policies that can only end in tyranny, while leaving democracy in a shambles. In their defiance of the Constitution, they are dangerous to the continuance of our Constitution and constitutional government.

@ Sam

Religious speech is free and should never be silenced.

The religious persecution of organizations such as the MFC and NOM is illegal.

The use of the Church to gain political agenda and power, is Ilegal.

The disguise of the Church for tax deduction, the lack of transparency in Taxes and support to political compaign is illegal.

The use of mass calling through media such as text is intrusive and oppressive and is illegal.

@Me – I’m glad to see you still say that you believe “Religious speech is free and should never be silenced”

But who’s religious speech should be free is another question.

When you say;
“The use of the Church to gain political agenda and power, is Ilegal.”

The question is who’s church? The church of humanism is very much involved in gaining polical power to promote its relgious agenda. Shouldn’t that also be illegal?

This blog is an arm of the church of humanism and it is a non-profit organization that is using tax deductions to funds it’s attacks on the religion of Christianity, and openly supports a political agenda. This is a mass media intrusion funded by tax deductions and should be just an illegal.

Tim,
Humanism isn’t a “church”. It’s a philosophy and lifestance. There are a number of humanist organizations and they are 501(c) 3 organizations.

And sorry there is NOT one version of “Christianity” out there, so it is impossible to “attack” a religion by talking about what some of it’s adherents are doing. Sorry but using rationality and science are not attacks.

And I’m not sure what color the sky is in your world, but the “Minnesota Independent” is a news and opinion website. The last time I looked reporting on what religious organizations are doing is not an attack.

@Scott –

Oh contraire my friend, humanism is indeed a religion.

The religion of humanism has a belief system, a code of ethics, a moral system, holy books that explains the meaning of life, etc. Humanism has everything that any other religion has. There is overwhelming evidence and countless books that prove humanism is indeed a religion.

Humanism is not just a religion, but one of the fastest growing religions in the world today, especially in Europe – where the Anti-Christ will rise to power.

Someday, I would love to explain in more detail why the humanism religion is gaining popularity and how God is indeed coordinating current events to unfold history just as he said he would.

In short, scriptures and current events tell us that the world is quickly approaching the end of this age and the world is being conditioned to embrace the entrance of the Anti-Christ and his global religion leader.

Many humanism think they are fighting to purge religion from the world, when they are actually just replacing one religion with another.

The scriptures tell us when the Anti-Christ enters the earth; religion will not be abolished but will be embraced and united with a global religious leader called the False Prophet. (read Rev.) The humanist religion fits the mold perfectly, because its core doctrine is that we are our own gods. The same thing that Satan told Adam and Eve in the garden, “..if you eat this, you will be like god..”

The reason that religion will always be part of the world is because of the reality of God. As long as God exists, so will religion. Even Satan and the demons know that God exists and they cannot get around that reality, which is why they plan for a global religion.

These things are plain to read in the scriptures, anyone could connect the dots, but this generation refuses to believe and blames the rise of the many false teachers for misleading them into thinking that the scriptures must not be true or are made up (all of these things are foretold in scripture).

But these excuses will not be accepted in Gods court. We are all responsible to seek God for the truth and must have faith in him, rather than put our faith in the lack of faith of the many false teachers that are at work to discredit the kingdom of God and deceive the entire world.

“.. The kingdom of God has come hear you” (Mark 1:15) Repent and give your life to Jesus Christ while you will have breath.

Tim,

“The religion of humanism has a belief system, a code of ethics, a moral system, holy books that explains the meaning of life, etc. Humanism has everything that any other religion has. There is overwhelming evidence and countless books that prove humanism is indeed a religion.”

So if a religion is defined by the above, then a political party and a “Star Trek” club also meet the definition. To me religion needs a supernatural belief to be a relgion, rather than just a philosophy of life.

Sorry, but humanists do not believe “that we are our own gods”, that is the religious projecting their own systems on to it. Humanists don’t “worship” anything the same way relgious believers do. Humanists believe that human beings can live lives guided with reason, inspired by compassion and informed by experience to improve the human condition.

From what I hear from the religious radio people I listen, it’s the Muslims that are poised to take over Europe, not the humanists.

Oh and the “end times” stuff is complete drivel, sorry. I’ve read the “Left Behind” seies and consider myself fortunate it did not cause brain damage. It is a really, really badly written series of books. Although the movies will totally cause sane people to want those hours of their life back. Ewww Kirk Cameron.

@Scott – Excellent and thoughtful response.

You said:
“To me religion needs a supernatural belief to be a religion, rather than just a philosophy of life. ” … “Sorry, but humanists do not believe “that we are our own gods”, that is the religious projecting their own systems on to it. Humanists don’t “worship” anything the same way relgious believers do. Humanists believe that human beings can live lives guided with reason, inspired by compassion and informed by experience to improve the human condition.”

Humanism is a supernatural belief system, because it contains faith in what cannot be explained. For example, humanists believe in evolution, which requires much faith to overlook DNA research that clearly indicated that we have an intelligent design.

Another example is the faith humanist put in leaders and organized people (government) as if they are capable of doing ‘good’ on their own without an understanding of what good is, which would require the ability to understand the different between what is ‘right’ and what is ‘wrong’. But without any source of truth, it is impossible to understand what is good. It is not possible to find truth within our limited experiences, understanding and culture, because all these things are relative – and ever changing. Therefore the only way to believe in this impossibility is to put as much faith in humanity as is required to believe in god. To believe truth can be found in man is to believe in the impossible, that we are gods.

It is the faith humanism put in there search for a god-man that is conditioning the world to embrace the Anti-Christ. As the influence of humanism increased, the world will increase its search and desire for a super-god-man to worship. We saw this in the liberal media during the 2008 presidential elections as they completely worshiped Obama almost as if he was a savior of the world. Obama has failed, but the hunger for a perfect man with all the answers continues to grow as the world prepares for the Anti-Christ and his religion.

The definition of “worship” is to give honor to and to have formal ceremonies rendering honor, to gather together to give honor to the object of what is regarded as sacred and to adorn.

This is exactly what the humanist religion does when it gives honor, with regular ceremonies to popular Atheists that carry their message. Just look at the “Humanist of the Year” awards. http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_the_AHA/Humanists_of_the_Year

Regarding Muslims in Europe; Yes Muslims are also going to play a major role in the “end times”. Read Hal Lindsey’s book, “The Everlasting Hatred: The Roots of Jihad” for one of the best explanations. In short, Muslims are also looking for a god-like man, in which the Anti-Christ will be and will unite the religions of the world.
http://www.amazon.com/Everlasting-Hatred-Roots-Jihad/dp/1931628157/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1290184829&sr=1-2

The “end times” are not easy to understand, the ‘left behind’ books were a fictional example of one possibility, which were meant to spark interest in the study of “end times”.

Most of the prophecies in scripture are related to either the first time Jesus came or his return, so there are a lot of prophecies about his return and it is difficult to put them all together, just as it was difficult for the world to understand when he first came, but the fact that some of prophecies have recently been fulfilled and current event are unfolding the fulfillment of many others tells us that we are indeed in the “end times”.

I’m not too worried about NOM and the boys….it seems that the louder they protest and try to move culture, in the end, nothing happens. Society moves in its own direction. Its like dripping water on a stone….in the end, Gays will marry, Gays will serve and yes, even get the highest medals of honor..and maybe even be a president…it takes time, but that is really the way God wants it.

Tim,

“Humanism is a supernatural belief system, because it contains faith in what cannot be explained. For example, humanists believe in evolution, which requires much faith to overlook DNA research that clearly indicated that we have an intelligent design. ”

Wow, so if we totally butcher the definitions of “faith”, “supernatural”, “worship” and “science” then humanism becomes a religion, Sorry, no that’s not how it works.

ID(Intelligent Design) is NOT science, it’s a pathic shadow of creationism which is also complete bunk, Evolution is an established science. Neither ID or creationism have added an iota of knowledge or understanding to biology.

And recognition ceremonies are NOT worship unless one totally wants to destoy what that word means.

“Another example is the faith humanist put in leaders and organized people (government) as if they are capable of doing ‘good’ on their own without an understanding of what good is, which would require the ability to understand the different between what is ‘right’ and what is ‘wrong’. But without any source of truth, it is impossible to understand what is good. It is not possible to find truth within our limited experiences, understanding and culture, because all these things are relative – and ever changing. Therefore the only way to believe in this impossibility is to put as much faith in humanity as is required to believe in god. To believe truth can be found in man is to believe in the impossible, that we are gods.”

Sorry Tim, humans do NOT need some “god” dictating what laws should be followed and what’s moral and ethical. Human beings actually do a pretty good job at it. Morals and ethics are based on experience and tempered by time. It’s no coincidence that practically all human societies have rules on property, harm to others and relationships. There are areas where ethical decisions are tough and will always be that way.

And sorry, no “end times prophesies” are total, complete and utter crap, so if you want to keep spouting them, you’re going lose more credibility.

Sorry, Tim, if you totally re-define what a religion is, then maybe humanism would fit in, but just barely. Remember Michael Behe was quite fine with re-defining science so that astrology would be considered a science.

Scott,

ID isn’t even a “shadow” of creationism – it’s a Microsoft Word find-replace string. “Intelligent Designer” is simply a find-replace for “God.”

What Tim doesn’t seem to recognize is that most of us are perfectly comfortable with letting him practice his religion, up until the moment that his wildly swinging his fist around in the air, brings that fist into contact with our noses. Now if only more Christians didn’t seem to believe that it’s their religious right and duty to punch people in the face.

@Katie B. – I’m so glad to hear you are still around. The Lord’s favor in on you and he is calling you to himself, as you know.

He has plans to radically change your life. I am convinced that you are the primary reason that the Lord led me to this blog to share with you the knowledge of Jesus Christ. The creator of heaven and earth has you on his mind. You have found favor in his eye. You are very important to Him. Your transformation will be a complete 180 and you will become one of the most powerful testimonies of your generation. I have much more to share with you about the plans God has for you. This is no joke; this is a Word from the Lord. Don’t waste another day, give your life to Christ and begin your new life and overcome the world – 1 John 5:4.

@Scott – Sorry, I have not had the chance to respond yet.

@Scott –

This time I’m not so impressed with your reasoning.

You seem willing to stake your life for all eternity on the definition of “faith” and “worship”. You seem to have no answers other than to disregard my claims and double-down on your faith in humanity and the impossible idea of evolution.

I am disappointed that when shown the light of the world (John 8:12) you would still choose darkness, but that is what scripture predicts. “This is the verdict; Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.” – John 3:19. Jesus went on to say “.. if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sin.” – John 8:24.

Science is the discovery of the evidence of God. Intelligent design is the foundation of Biology and the motivation behind our nation’s scientific advancements that have resulted in the greatest discoveries in the world. Here are a few books, as evidence.

Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design
http://www.amazon.com/Signature-Cell-Evidence-Intelligent-Design/dp/0061472794/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

The Cell’s Design: How Chemistry Reveals the Creator’s Artistry
http://www.amazon.com/Cells-Design-Chemistry-Creators-Artistry/dp/0801068274/ref=pd_sim_b_3

Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution
http://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Black-Box-Biochemical-Challenge/dp/0743290313/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c

The Devil’s Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions
http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Delusion-Atheism-Scientific-Pretensions/dp/0465019374/ref=pd_sim_b_4

The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success
http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Reason-Christianity-Freedom-Capitalism/dp/0812972333/ref=pd_sim_b_2

We are deeply dependent on God, because He is the only foundation “…no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ..” – 1 Corinthians 3:11. Man is not self-sustaining, because “… man cannot live by bread alone, but on every Word that comes from God..” – Matthew 4:4

Dr. Francis Schaeffer created an excellent documentary called “How Should We Then Live: The rise and decline of Western thought and culture”
http://www.amazon.com/How-Should-We-Then-Live/dp/1581345364/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

In which he researched how the laws of each nation (past and present) affect its ability to survive and prosper. What he found was that the more a nation uses God’s laws, which are only found in scriptures, the stronger and more successful the nation.

Regarding ‘end times’ prophecies and that clearly happening, my credibility is not dependent on the perception of the world, but on how well I represent the kingdom of God as an ambassador for Jesus Christ. “…We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us”. – 2 Corinthians 5:20

Scott, all the answers are in the scriptures

“.. The kingdom of God has come hear you” (Mark 1:15) Repent and give your life to Jesus Christ while you will have breath.

Oh, Tim. That’s sweet but I don’t think I’m ready to trade self-knowledge and historical awareness for delusion. Now or at any time in the future.

Tim,

Using people who won’t look at facts outside of their own point of view will not convince me that your narrow religion is the way to go.

I’ve read: “Darwin’s Black Box”. Behe was shown to be shallow in his thinking in the “Kitzmiller” decision in wanting to change the definition of science so that both “intelligent design” and astrology could be considered science. Behe was also confronted on the stand with a large collection of published science papers disputing his prized “iriducible complexity”.

I’ve read Francis Schaffer’s book and was not impressed. I’ve also read his son’s book on his “seeing the light” and coming out of fundalmentalism. It’s quite fascinating.

The Stephen Meyer book, “The Signature in the Cell”, has been thoroughly destroyed, mainly because he is NOT a scientist but a philosopher with the ID propoganda factory Discovery Institute.

The Stark book looks interesting, so I will give that one a try.

I was also not impressed with the Berlinski book either.

Sorry Tim. I’m still not convinced. I’ve read Bart Erhman’s books on the Bible, as well as a number of less scholarly books on the subject. Reciting Bible verses will not do it for me. There is not a coherent set of laws that can be used from Bible without picking and choosing based on one’s biases. Like do we kill both people who are caught in an affair or make someone drink some nasty concoction to prove their telling the truth? Using the rules of a non-technological tribe from 2000 plus years ago to run a 320 million person country is crazy.

Laws need to change as society changes. Some Christian sects do not allow women to vote on church issues or to be pastors. That and a myriad of other things are all good reasons for humans to use reason and experience to decide how we interact.