Bachmann, Kline: Obama’s not saying ‘God’ enough

Well just for pissing the nut bags off i salute you Mr President.

What the hell is the phrase “In God we trust” doing on our currency in the first place. Who is “we” and what god are “we” talking about. Seems a lot of citizens haven’t been invited to the party. Obama is completely justified not using god talk, the less the better.

Get over it folks. We are a country based on religious freedom, not religious freedom only for those who are christians. In God We Trust should NOT be on our money in the first place. Many don’t even believe in god, who is standing up for their rights? Obama is showing that he is a president for ALL the people, not just a select few.

Maybe President Obama should start saying “God damn religious right”. Would that satisfy them?

Oh, I beg to differ! I’ll bet Mr. Obama uses “God” all the time – “God, will someone shut that woman up?”, “God, help me!”, “God, what do they want now?”, and, though probably uttered privately, “God damn Republicans!”

If he’s generous and loving – as I believe he can be – he might paraphrase another wise man… “God, forgive them for they know not what they do/say/think/wish.”

This is really a silly complaint!

New survey: “We show that [life satisfaction] is almost entirely about the social aspect of religion, rather than the theological or spiritual aspect of religion,” Lim told LiveScience. “We found that people are more satisfied with their lives when they go to church, because they build a social network within their congregation.”

http://www.livescience.com/health/religion-happiness-church-friends-101207.html

Obama said “e pluribus unum “(“out of many, one,” in Latin) as part of his speech in front of university students in Indonesia to refer to Indonesia’s own motto “Bhineka Tunggal Ika”, which means “Unity in Diversity”. Since the two countries have similar background, ie. multi ethnics diversities, Obama’s speech was in the context of reminding people of both countries of how important to be united. This has nothing to do with God!

Notice how Barry Lynn didn’t say that what Bachmann and company said was inaccurate or incorrect. He chose instead to insult them personally because he has no rebuttal.

God, I hadn’t realized, God knows, that Obama was failing his God-given responsibility to make a minimum number of God-directed references, for God’s sake. God, in God’s name, has every reason to use acts of God to force Obama to say God, given how many God-given opportunities God gives him to say God through the goodness of God,

Thanks to God-fearing God-believing God-defending God followers, God’s name will get all the mentions God deserves, God be praised. .

“Question with boldness even the existence of a god.” – Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787):
“All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason;
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”, John Madison;
“Lighthouses are more helpful than Churches”, Benjamin Franklin

Dennis writes:

“Notice how Barry Lynn didn’t say that what Bachmann and company said was inaccurate or incorrect. He chose instead to insult them personally because he has no rebuttal.”

Dennis, just because someone tries to create an issue doesn’t mean the issue has value necessitating a rebuttal. If someone says monkeys fly out their butt, should that receive a rebuttal? I think it is deserving of scorn.

By the way, I’d like YOU to explain why monkeys fly out YOUR butt. I look forward to your rebuttal. Be sure to include in your rebuttal some evidence as to why you believe monkeys don’t fly out your butt. And don’t insult me personally, that will be proof that you have no answer for why monkeys fly out your butt.

re this part:
“Additionally,” the caucus wrote, “during three separate events this fall, when quoting from the Declaration of Independence, you mentioned that we have inalienable rights but you consistently failed to mention the source of those rights. The Declaration of Independence definitively recognizes God, our Creator, as the source of those rights.”

These blind Christian “God” proponents should familiarize themselves with the Declaration of Independence. It “definitively” recognizes a Creator, true, in the second sentence. Now for the first sentence:
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
“The Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” is specifically a DEIST view, not necessarily a Christian one. This follows, as Jefferson was the primary author. So when the famous 2nd sentence says “endowed by their Creator,” it’s pretty obvious that it’s the same Deity mentioned in the first sentence… Nature’s God.
All the Glenn Beck/David Barton history re-writes notwithstanding, the only mention of religion in the Constitution is the forbidding of religious tests to hold public office. THIS is what the founders intended, because it’s what they did. Bachmann et al are abominations.

“These blind Christian “God” proponents should familiarize themselves with the Declaration of Independence. It “definitively” recognizes a Creator, true, in the second sentence. ”

john m, the letter was from the non-denominational “Congressional Prayer Caucus.” Neither Christ nor Christianity is mentioned in the letter. Both you and Barry Lynn are wrong. They weren’t complaining because the president wasn’t mentioning Christ enough, but God.

And go back and read the Declaration. God is actually mentioned FOUR times. The same God that the Prayer Caucus was referring to, the same God that the people of all western religions derive their rights from.

“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

“We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare,”

“And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

“Republican Reps. Michele Bachmann and John Kline, as part of the Congressional Prayer Caucus, chastised President Obama for not portraying America as a more Christian-like nation to the rest of the world.”

Totally untrue. No mention of Christ or America as a “Christian-like nation” exists in the letter.

E Pluribus Unum is Latin for “out of many, one.” Sometimes it is translated more loosely as “one from many.” E Pluribus Unum refers to the fact that the United States was formed as a cohesive single nation as the result of the thirteen smaller colonies joining together.

Bring back “E Pluribus Unum” and remove that damn meaningless “In God We Trust”

Dennis,

If you want a theocracy (which I can ascertain from your posts), this isn’t the country for you. Move over to Saudi Arabia.

Just curious if there was such an outrage when Bush and Reagan said the same thing? I’d hate to think that this is simply petty politics at work. Who would have thought that those two hated our freedom

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020304-3.html

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011112-4.html

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1983/120883b.htm

I want what the founders wanted, Ben. They knew that a free society depended on a moral society.

Dennis.prove the existence of your GOD.

The REALLY sad part is not that Obama misquoted our national mott but that it is no longer true! We are no longer a nation that says, “In God We Trust”.

I wonder what God thinks of that.

“..go back and read the Declaration. God is actually mentioned FOUR times.”

It’s so clear to me now! Every presidential speech must have 4 references to God.
The only message I get from crap like this letter is that the people who signed it believe if they mention God, it’s all good and anything they do is OK. For example, when Newt was having an affair and his wife asked how he could give speeches about family values, he said, “People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”

The Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land. It is a press release. The Constitution on the other hand is the law of the land. And nowhere in it are the words God and creator.

Holy crap!

” … and so in this poignant hour I ask you to join with me in prayer…”
- FDR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUy1ejRq9RE

(Heads will surely explode)

“The Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land. It is a press release.”

Show me another one-page press release that mentions God four times. It would only come from a religious organization.

Dennis,

Gee, you posted a ton of what you thought were great arguments.

And yet, you didn’t rebut my assertion that monkeys fly out your butt.

Why? You didn’t say my statement was wrong. No rebuttal?

I can take that only as an admission that, indeed, monkeys fly out your butt.

That must feel very strange, how do they get in there?

Wow, four mentions of God in the Declaration of Independence.

And yet, none in the Constitution that Dennis worships.

How could that be? What does that mean?

Not even a reference in the Constitution to the Declaration……………..not a single mention of God.

What does that mean?

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!

The Constitution doesn’t have a single mention of God.

But it has the word “welfare” in the first sentence.

What does that mean?

hahahahaha stop it. You’re violating Dennis’ Declaration of Independence rights.

The Articles of Confederation, which came after the Declaration but prior to the Constitution, don’t have the word “God” in them.

They do, however, contain the following reference: ” And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures…..”

Should we all be saying “In the Great Governor of the World We Trust”?

The Christian right wing Polticians have to stop mixing Religion and Politics. We are a nation of many faiths and should not be pushing for an ALL Christian nation when that was not the intent of the Constitution at all.

When the ten Commandments were wrote to “Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself. This didn’t mean love the guy who lives on either side of you in your subdivision. It was meant to love the those who lived in the territories North, South East and west who practiced different faiths.

The Christian Right are not pushing their faith because they think its better. They are pushing to show hatred of other faiths such as the Muslim’s They are so transparent in these efforts by demonizing those of other faiths. You don’t see Britain, France, Germany or Switzerland trying to push Christianity on everyone. I consider myself to be a Christian by being a member of the Episcapal Church yet respect each and every persons right to practice any religion they choose.

That’s ok.

I’m convinced that it’s not that you people hate God. It’s that you’d rather worship Government.

[...] course people are now making this into a huge issue – is Obama trying to slight God?  (Sarcasm follows) Is he trying to imply that the USA might [...]

This woman is doing so much harm to the image of Minnesota. The more she opens her mouth, the more I wonder who is crazy enough to elect her!

Who writes this stuff for Bachmann, the guys from the “Onion? To set the record straight, in Obama’s speech she is referring to, he said God four times.

[...] I do not know. Amongst her daily doings, she is great at making off color comments. Check out this beaut: The caucus wrote that Obama used e pluribus unum (“out of many, one,” in Latin) as the motto [...]

Dennis, you wrote: ” I want what the founders wanted, Ben. They knew that a free society depended on a moral society.” So apparently you think that people who do not believe in God are necessarily less moral, less ethical, than those who do?

As for the various mentions of the “Creator” et al in the Declaration of Independence–the writers were trying to justify their actions in the face of a British monarchy that proclaimed their rule as being divinely ordained, so it would be entirely sensible and even strategic to include in the Declaration a rationale for their actions based on the same logic.

Dennis, the First Amendment is a cornerstone of our social peace in America.

You can argue God this and God that ….

.. but the God i know doesn’t give a tinker’s damn about how many times our president, or Mrs. Bachmann, or you or I utter the English word for Her. She looks directly into peoples’ hearts and knows.

Michele Bachmann and John Kline are wearing their faith on their sleeves for poltical purposes. It serves no purpose that God has … She made that clear in my last conversation.

Am I full of it? No more, no less than Michele Bachmann and John Kline, harping on the President about how many times he says, “God.”

Just exactly how many times is the correct amount, anyway? What would satisfy Michele and John, if not God herself?

It’s amazing. Bachmann has no problem holding up unemployment benefits to needy people but then criticizes the President for not saying the word “God” enough. It doesn’t matter how many times you say “God” because He isn’t swayed if you don’t have him in your heart.

It is amazing all the “God” haters in this country! If you do not think God had anything to do with this nation becoming great, why has it declined morally and economically so badly since we have tried to take God out of our public life all together? One day, even though many of you do not think it will happen, we will stand before God and give an account of what we have done with the lives He has given us. You can believe it or not, but that does not change the reality. Our nation and our leaders will be judged as well.

Bachmann lost ALL credibility with most of america when she lied about the
Presidents trip costing 200 million per day on TV.
That lie was so outrageous that she’s still holding top position in lie of the year contest.

Pat, D., Mill, et al:

Did you know that every one of the original 13 state constitutions, and most of the other state constitutions, REQUIRED “belief in God”. And all of them directly mention God…the God of the Bible:

Alabama: We, the people of the State of Alabama…invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God

Alaska: We the people of Alaska, grateful to God

Arkanas: We, the People of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God

California: We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God

Colorado: We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Connecticut: The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God

Delaware: Through Divine goodness

Florida: We, the people of the State of Florida, being grateful to Almighty God

Georgia: relying upon the protection and guidance of Almighty God

Hawaii: We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance

Idaho: We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom

Illinois: We, the People of the State of Illinois — grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He has permitted us to enjoy and seeking His blessing upon our endeavors

Indiana: WE, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to ALMIGHTY GOD

Iowa: WE THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF IOWA, grateful to the Supreme Being

Kanas: We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God

Kentucky: We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, grateful to Almighty God

Louisiana: We, the people of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God

Maine: acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe

Maryland: We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God

(cont…)

Massachusetts: the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe (ya, this is a little goofy of a reference)

Michigan: We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God

Minnesota: We, the people of the state of Minnesota, grateful to God

Mississippi: We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking his blessing on our work

Missouri: We the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe,

Montana: We the people of Montana grateful to God

Nebraska: We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom

Nevada: We the people of the State of Nevada Grateful to Almighty God

New Hampshire: Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God

New Jersey: We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God

New Mexico: We, the people of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God

New York: We The People of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our Freedom

North Carolina: We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations

North Dakota: We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God

Ohio: We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom

Oklahoma: Invoking the guidance of Almighty God

Oregon: All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God

Penn: WE, the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God

Rhode Island: We, the people of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy

South Carolina: We, the people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, grateful to God for our liberties

(cont)

South Dakota: We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God

Tenn: That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God

Texas: Humbly invoking the blessings of Almighty God, the people of the State of Texas

Utah: Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty

Vermont: That all persons have a natural and unalienable right, to worship Almighty God

Virginia: That religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator

West Virginia: Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil

Wisconsin: We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom

Wyoming: We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil

So….

Let’s stop arguing about weather or not our founders had a deep faith and belief in God through Jesus Christ our Lord. It is undisputable.

At the same time, by stating what they believed (and which is true) in these state constitutions they were not ‘pushing their beliefs on anyone’. It WAS their beliefs! We the people believed in God.

Today, sadly, we the people no longer trust in the Lord. Which is fine. But don’t rewrite history. Most today want us to stop “mising politics and religion”. In reality, Christianity and government were thoroughly mixed in this country for 200 years.

In fact, one of the first acts of the continental congress was to purchase 20,000 Bibles to be distributed to Indians and schools.

If you don’t want to believe in God, fine. Broad is the gate that leads to destruction. But don’t rewrite American history.

May God bless America

[...] a truly amazing article with the obscene primary source downloadable as a PDF, I learned that Minnesota Senator Michelle [...]

Jeff,
That would be a big NO on that story. Congress did NOT puchase any bibles. Check out the work by Chris Rodda.

See:
http://www.liarsforjesus.com/

And:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2010/6/3/123527/8452

David Barton, Bachmann’s and Glenn Beck’s favorite “historian” is a liar and a fraud. His “history” is pure propoganda. Believe him at your peril.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,”
The Declaration of Independence

Instituted among Men (not the church), deriving their powers from the consent of the governed (not God).

Contrary to impassioned theocratic urban legend, the country was NOT founded on belief in a God. It was founded on the belief in the people to govern themselves through a government that derives it’s authority THROUGH THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED.
http://zerablog.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/a-nation-founded-on-faith-%e2%80%93-in-people/

“In God We Trust” was added after WWII in defiance of communism, not in support of theocracy. The paper currency also says “THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE”, but that’s not entirely true either. Places that take cash by mail are probably places you want to avoid.

The coins still say “e pluribus unum”, but conservatives seem to have abandoned the “united” part of “United States.”

“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,”
The Declaration of Independence

Instituted among Men (not the church), deriving their powers from the consent of the governed (not God).”

You don’t understand. The founders said that the people derive their rights from God and that government derives its right to govern from the people.

Which means that unlike any other nation before it, the founders declared that rights flow from God, to the people, to their government.

Unlike the european model where power flowed from God to government (kings) and then down to the people.

I understand the concern, as a secularist (agnostic) I also do not feel that Obama is supporting my belief system (16% of Americans).

Thanks Jeff:
“Did you know that every one of the original 13 state constitutions, and most of the other state constitutions, REQUIRED “belief in God”. And all of them directly mention God…the God of the Bible”

Now that I know it is a requirement, I do truly believe.

Jeff wrote,

“Let’s stop arguing about weather or not our founders had a deep faith and belief in God through Jesus Christ our Lord. It is undisputable.”

If you claim is that all of the founders were uniform in their beliefs about Christianity and its god, then this is simply false. Have you ever heard of Thomas Jefferson’s Bible? He thought the supernatural miracle stories were fables, and sought to essentially re-write the New Testament preserving only the teachings of Jesus, which he took to be “as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill.” Think about that. A President of the US referring to large sections of the New Testament as like a “dunghill.” How do you think that would go over today?

“At the same time, by stating what they believed (and which is true) in these state constitutions they were not ‘pushing their beliefs on anyone’. It WAS their beliefs! We the people believed in God.”

Again, the fable Jeff wants to foist on us is that everyone agreed exactly on matters of faith, that America was a land unified in piety and belief. This couldn’t have been further from the truth. Under the simple word “God” lies all sorts of tensions, contradictions and disagreement as to interpretation.

“Today, sadly, we the people no longer trust in the Lord. Which is fine. But don’t rewrite history. Most today want us to stop “mising politics and religion”. In reality, Christianity and government were thoroughly mixed in this country for 200 years.”

And to the extent that they were, let’s all give witness to what that entailed–acceptance of slavery, the mass slaughter of Native Americans (not infrequently called for by people claiming to speak in the name of Jesus and the Christian god), the subjugation and dehumanization of non-whites and women in general, the mass exploitation and abuse of labor, and on and on.

Secular values have been civilizing Christianity ever since, and will continue to do so.

Dear American Taliban,

S. T. F. U.

Thank you!

Greg

Back to the original point of the story:

How many times should we say “God” every day? There must be some kind of recognized minimum. Maybe Bachmann can introduce legislation?

And can we say it all at one time, or do we have to space it out throughout the day?

Does saying it during sex count? If so, how many times will count, does “oh God, oh God, oh God don’t stop” count as one mention or three?

I assume swearing won’t count…………………………

I love living in a Christian America, can’t you just smell the freedom? And the fear? Because I wouldn’t want Kline or Bachmann to find me lacking in my use of the word God, for God’s sake.

Ah, the Congressional Prayer Caucus. Just what we need.

Note that there probably doesn’t exist a Congressional Critical Thinking Caucus, or a Congressional Skeptics on the Road to Knowledge Caucus or even a Congressional Advancing Scientific Knowledge Caucus.

Those might actually give some small impetus to positive change.

Instead, we have 68 members of the House who believe that they are in telepathic communication with and receiving telepathic signals from the being they allege created the universe.

How about this- Please God, Damn Big Mouth Bachmann. God Damned Liars, like Michelle Bachmann. I’m sure if I take the time to think about it I could have more sentences that have God in them. Think that counts with BMB?

I am a moral person but I am not a religious person. One does not need a church or a particular religion to maintain a moral lifestyle. I am a faithful spouse (better than a bunch of those who proclaim their Christianity loudly), I am a responsible citizen who lives by the laws of this land, pays my taxes and treats others well. I was a responsible parent to my children who have grown up and left home as they are supposed to do and they now have jobs and pay taxes and are responsible citizens. Now I get to be a responsible parent to grown children and let them live their lives in the manner they chose to go and hope that the morality I instilled in them as children does influence their lives today. (It does. They are good and decent people.) I now get to be a responsible and loving grandparent that allows the parents to raise the grandchild in the way they see fit even if it is not all “my way”. .
Morality does not depend on religion and needs no God to be an integral part of ones life. My religious beliefs are my own and are private to me. I do not need to proclaim my religion because my actions should be the most important part of what people think of me. Those who loudly proclaim their religion and exhort others to display a measure or mark that is set by the exhort-er and yet do not live up to the very life they proclaim as there own, are not believable people. Telling lies and stirring hatred among fellow citizens would not seem to be the type of actions that one who proclaims Christianity would do to prove they are indeed living up to their proclamation. Cheating on ones spouse would not seem to be the actions of a person who loudly proclaims their Christianity. Telling others to deliberately avoid or disobey laws of the nation in which one lives does not seem to be a Christian activity. (Telling people to not do the Census or to not do it fully, which is against the law.) So for those who are criticizing the president for not living up to their “standards” rarely seem to live up to that they expect others to do. Isn’t that one of the greatest of life’s ironies?

Scott, they did buy bibles. And approved Bibles for use in schools. And proclaim days of fasting and prayer. And proclaim days of thanksgiving to God. And appoint chaplins. And appropriate funds for the New England Primer. And on and on and on… (one source: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html)

Zera Lee. You’re right about the governed, but even our form and structure of government (Executive, Legislative, Judicial) was base on Biblical principles (see Isaiah 33:22) And “In God We Trust” was used on currency since the 1860′s.

And Dennis it right, it is God who establishes governments (see Daniel 2:21, Daniel 4:17, Romans 13:1)

MinorityMandate: It’s not that they wanted to force everyone to believe, they wanted their legislators to have a belief in God and understanding of the Bible. And it was a requirement for legislative service.

Eric: So Christianity is responsible for slavery? You really believe that? You need to read the story of William Wilberforce. And Christians killed Indians, expoited people, ect. Wow. Are we to blame for global warming too? And i never said the founders beliefs were uniform. But research how many of the signers of the Decl. of Independence were professing Christians, theologians, or pastors.

Greg: And Eric thinks I’m hateful and intolerant????

youmustbejoking: the rich young ruler in Matt 19:16-26 thought he was doing pretty good also. The problem is that God demands perfect righteousness! So the question you need to ask yourself is this, ‘are you perfect’? Well, are you?

And to all: Nobody even began to address the point of my post. God was mentioned A LOT by the founders…that is the real history.

Blessings

BTW, the New England Primer was first published in the late 1600s and was used in public schools even into the 20th century. For most Americans, it was the only text book they knew!

Here are the A, B, Cs:

A In ADAM’S Fall
We sinned all.

B Heaven to find;
The Bible Mind.

C Christ crucify’d
For sinners dy’d.

Every letter was a Biblical reference! That is what parents wanted to teach their children in this country for 200 years. That is our history. But starting in 1962, no more. Eric is right that secular values are taking over. Sadly he’s right.

May God have mercy on us for turn away from Him (Deuteronomy 8).

As I read through these many posts that strayed from the topic of Michele Bachmann and John Kline complaining that the President does not portray America as a “Christian Nation” when abroad, I came to the conclusion that the President doesn’t need to.

I have also concluded that while Religion and Religious practices are personal to each of us, we are a nation of Laws, which gives us structure and order to live Free from Religion as well as be Free to practice Religion. This country is a Republic, not a Theocracy.

Jeff,
Congress did NOT buy the bibles. They reccommended the printing because at the time the only published bibles available were from England. The note at the LOC does not say purchased.

You forget that the colonies had very different relgious traditions: Catholics in Virginia, Quakers in Pennsylvania, Baptists in Georgia, Puritans in New England. There was NOT one approach to religion in the early U.S. There was never total argreement which version of Chistianity is the main one for the country. The Catholic School system was formed in the 1800′s because the bible readings used were from Protestant bibles NOT from Catholic bibles.

The New England Primer was used universally in schools and there is no evidence that it was stopped only in 1962. Again using David Barton for history is going get you in trouble.

LadyK: the President doesn’t NEED to mention God, sure. But he does need to stop misquoting the Decl of Ind (leaving out God) and misrepresenting our National Motto (leaving out God). Which is what most here want, sadly. But the point of argument here hasn’t been Obama leaving God out, but weather or not the US has a Christian history. It does.

Christians are upset because we see a nation turning from that history and forgetting the God that has blessed this nation. And our Commander in Cheif is leading the way.

Scott: It looks like you are right (http://acheritagegroup.org/blog/?p=55) The resolution to buy bibles was never carried out. But the point still holds. Congress DID pass a motion to import 20,000 Bibles. It shows where we once were–mixing politics and faith! (which the 1st ammendment does not prohibit at all)

And I didn’t forget the diversity of beliefs in the colonies just as there are a diversity of beliefs today. THAT is why the 1st ammendment specifically prohibits government from choosing one denomination/religion over another. But even in there diversity, they all believed in the God of the Bible through Christ. Not some other god.

You are right about NY schools. They were actually government schools run by Christians. The Catholics didn’t like that. But again, the point is that Christianity was the norm and was taught even in our government schools.

We have fallen a long way. (Revelation 2:4-5)

Won’t somebody help out a poor sinner?

How many times do I have to say God each day? I really need someone to tell me.

I want to be a real Christian American (sorry for the redundant expression, I guess I could have just said one or the other, since they mean the same thing.)

My favorite story from American colonialism is how the Puritan militia in Massachusetts invaded another colony and burned down the town. Over a trade dispute.

But they all loved Jesus, yes they did. They were one big happy Christian family.

I think there is much we can learn from the early colonies, like how to tell who was a witch. And how to hang or burn people. How to put people in stocks for not attending church. Lots of really good things that should be done today. We’ve really lost that art, and that must be why fundamentalists today long for the way it used to be.

Different Tim

I think it’s 6 times per day. It might be 5, or even 2, but to be on the safe side do 6. That should ensure the blessing of God himself on your household. You’ll get rich, have perfect kids, no illness and be happy your entire life. I guess from the previous posts, that’s how God works. Don’t mess it up.

Kevin,

May God bless you in as many ways as God can, for your Godly direct answer to my God-fearing question.

God, I cried out, as none of those above who said they were God’s followers would ever answer my God-inspired question, to know how many times I must say God each day.

Kevin, God bless you for giving me your direct revelation from God.

Jeff,

I never claimed that Christianity was responsible for slavery. The historical record shows that many Christians both tolerated and championed slavery. Much pro-slavery rhetoric contains references to Biblical authority. And let’s not forget that Jesus himself somehow forgot to condemn the practice, and instead appeared to accept its presence.

The same early Christian influence you laud is also deeply implicated in the murder of Native Americans. This isn’t some slight of mine against Christianity, it’s simply what happened. If you’re going to argue–and you’re certainly correct in stating that many early American leaders were Christian–you also have to accept that they were also responsible for a great crime against the indigenous people here. Incredible abuses against native peoples took place all over this and the South American continent for centuries. And the crimes and horrors were not infrequently justified on Christian religious grounds–a “bringing the gospel to savages” rationale.

You wrote:

“And to all: Nobody even began to address the point of my post. God was mentioned A LOT by the founders…that is the real history.”

My first response to this is…so? Slavery was acceptable by majorities of the founders. Women were believed to be inferior to men by probably most of the founders, as well as blacks, and non-Christians.

Merely because something was believed, said or practiced X number of years ago does not automatically give it a sacrosanct status and place it beyond criticism and change. Values, beliefs and knowledge are in continual flux, including conceptions of the Christian god.

Different Tim,

I hope this Guide to Godliness(TM) helps you in your path to ever more agitated and spiteful levels of piety.

Axiom 1: Verbal repetition of “God” is known to arouse and excite the deity, who otherwise languishes in a cosmic narcoleptic coma. This is why he (don’t be a blasphemer and suggest he doesn’t have testicles) has allowed the gays to destroy the Constitution, America, The Family(TM), the State of MN, Jamaica, Dutch chocolate, popular music, the Space Shuttle Program, the economy, and the market for SUVs.

Axiom 2: God utterances are additive in their efficacy. That is, the more densely your speech is packed with “God”, the more the utterances reach the inner ear canal of the deity. Thus, the more motivated He becomes to fulfill his furious and embittered Bronze Age duty to smite everything that gives Him the slightest annoyance. When the Hindenburg went up in flames in 1937 it was because God was furious that we were spending too much time listening to the radio at the expense of saying “God.” A little known fact.

Conclusion: In order to protect America and achieve new levels of bloodthirsty patriotic fervor we all need to say “God” morning, noon and night, sprinkling Him over breakfast, chowing him down in a 3-God lunch, and serving up godly portions of “God” over rice with buttered potatoes and honeyed ham in the evening.

Even when you touch your junk, say “God.”

I personally recommend recording yourself saying “God” a dozen times and then looping this audio file for continual playback in iTunes at 10x normal speed for maximum effectiveness.

I hope these tips have proven beneficial in our mutual quest to reclaim America from its ungodliness, and restore her to her special place in God’s eyes.

In flag-waving holiness,
Eric

Eric,

God bless you for revealing God’s plan and the complex ways of God. And God bless America too!

Yeah, we are a christian nation and The Church of England’s Columbus “discovered” America… not! There were already people here who had a very different idea of spirituality AND, my scandinavian ancestors found the place years before not-so-straight-sailing Columbus. They fled the persecution of the church! The Civil War??? The very same arguments were used to “defend our god-given rights” from the godbook and fight the very govt I keep hearing the christianists quoting IN DEFENSE OF SLAVERY IN THE GODBOOK, and countless other crimes against humanity all in the name of the christianists god throughout history. Funny how the Calvinists think THEY are the experts in godtalk even though their rapture was “discovered” by a man named Darby just over 100 years ago.

I’m kinda glad its due in about 3 months. Beam ‘em up Scotty! Be sure to take Michelle!

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Eric,

You say you don’t blame slavery on Christians and then go and blame slavery and Indian killing on Christians!

As for your other post, saying the name of God does nothing. Trusting in Him does everything!

Christianity is about one thing…Jesus Christ die for your sins, was buried, and was raised on the 3rd day. If you trust in Him, you receive the gift of eternal life. If you do not, you will not. (john 3:16) it’s that simple.

We used to have a nation where most people believe that and were saved…and then tried to live their lives according to God’s Word. Today, it’s probably 25%.

So now you have teachers in Wisconsin being fired for reading their Bibles during study hall. Crosses being boarded up in California. 10 commandments being removed. A 4th graders Bible confiscated in Florida. A St. Louis public school student reprimanded for praying over his lunch. A 9th-grader in Houston getting a zero on a project because it was about Jesus. A federal judge declaring the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional!!!! (I guess he didn’t read the ‘or the free exercise thereof’ part of the First Amendment.)

And a President who purposefully leaves out “the creator” when referencing the Dec of Ind. Purposefully misstates the US motto. Doesn’t attend the National Day of Prayer. Doesn’t attend church. And in my opinion, is not a Christian (someone who believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior).

Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan.

The people are groaning.

He is bvecause he has told you. So what if he wasn’t.? This is not nor ever was a christian nation. People do not have to believe your book to be president. The statistics may be indicative of this hyper-calvinist, dominionist holly-rollin Pat Robertson-esque interpretation of your book that makes everyone want to puke. Maybe you should stop forcing it down everyones throat!

Dear Wendy,

I just don’t understand why people like you insist on denying that we were a Christian nation…founded by Christians, on Biblical principles, government by Christians, with the vast majority of it’s citizens Christian.

Really! It’s true.

And by stating such, I am not “forcing” Christianity on anyone. Just merely stating real history. And sadness about where we are today.

Besides, Christianity can’t be forced on anyone. Salvation is a free gift from God available to those who put their faith in Jesus Christ.

Because its not true. The Church of England’s Columbus “discovered” America… not! There were already people here who had a very different idea of spirituality AND, my scandinavian ancestors found the place years before not-so-straight-sailing Columbus. They fled the persecution of the church! “Under God” wasn’t added until the sixties. Your version is patently FALSE. But nice try.

Jeff says: “Let’s stop arguing about weather or not our founders had a deep faith and belief in God through Jesus Christ our Lord. It is undisputable.”

Except for Jesus Christ not being mentioned in your lists disputes that. Our country was founded by men who did not all accept Christ as Savior, yet their morality is not lessened because of it. Neither is our nation lessened by the many faiths of its citizens.

Most of the Founders were Deists- they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God are never mentioned in the Constitution. I did not see them in your lists either.

“Christianity can’t be forced on anyone. Salvation is a free gift from God available to those who put their faith in Jesus Christ. ” – Jeff
In your opinion Obama is not a Christian. Why does your opinion matter?
If I declare you a fake Christian does that make it so? I cannot judge your heart or anyone else’s, and you cannot either.

George H.W. Bush hosted 1 Day of Prayer in 4 years; Reagan only 1 (1982) in 8 years. I’m sure in your opinion, the last 2 are not Christian either. No president except George W held one every year. Guess in your opinion he was the only Christian president .

Sorry Jeff – your list had God; not the Bible, Jesus, Christianity.

I do admire your faith, Jeff, and your determination to share it. I hope you always find strength in it. Belief in God is part of our country’s morality. A specific religion is not. Look at the division and judgement it causes just in this conversation about government.
Our founders were good men and very wise to exclude religion.

Wendy,

Wow. I was talking about OUR founders of OUR country. Not Indians, Vikings, or Scandinavians. And you’re right, many of those who came to this country fled persecution of the “church”…the church of England and the Catholic Church. NEITHER are Biblical entities. Both ruled wickedly.

That is was the first amendment was really about…keeping Government out of religion. Not the other way around (i.e. free excercie thereof…). But to say this nation wasn’t founded by Christians is simply denying history. See below.

Pat,

They were NOT deists but had faith in a personal, relational God through Christ. There are literally hundreds of quotes to back this up. Here is one by George Washington:

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”

Alexandar Hamilton wrote: “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

AND THIS ONE…
Patrick Henry wrote: “It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.”

This notion that the founders were deists is just wrong. Benjamin Franklin, often called a deist today, said: “God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable than an empire can rise without his aid?”

That does sound like someone who you say believed in a God that “does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans”. Far from it!!

Look, we can debate a lot of things. But it is just not debatable (unless you distort history) that the vast majority of our founders had a personal faith in God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Read their writing and you will find 52 of the 56 signers of the Decl of Ind were committed Christians. The others believed in God and the Bible to some degree.

You seem to insist that the fact that Jesus is not mentioned in our Constitution make us not a Christian nation. And if you mean that we are not a theocracy, you are right. That was never intended. What I mean by “Christian nation” is that we were a nation founded by Christians on Biblical principles that believed in God through Jesus Christ.

Sadly, Obama is right when he said, “we are no longer a Christian nation”.

May God have mercy on us.

Nonsense and dominionist drivel. Never were. “Congress shall pass NO LAW repecting religion” You cannot just dismiss Native American or my ancestors presence or their belief systems. They were here before what we all have been taught, that bing the history of the church of Englands Columbus. A tiny scratch upon that distorted claim to history reveals the truth. “The founders deliberately left the word ‘God’ out of the Constitution — but not because they were a bunch of atheists and deists,” says Susan Jacoby, author of “Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism.” “To them, mixing religion and government meant trouble.” The curious thing is that in trying to bring God into the Constitution, the activists — who say their goal is to follow the original intent of the founders — are ignoring the fact that the founders explicitly avoided religious language in that document.

This endless, ever-angry escalating assault on our Constitution by crusading theocrats could be obliterated with the effective incantation of two names: Benjamin Franklin, and Deganawidah.

But first, let’s do some history:

1. Actual Founder-Presidents #2 through #6—John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe and John Quincy Adams—were all freethinking Deists and Unitarians; what Christian precepts they embraced were moderate, tolerant and open-minded.

2. Actual Founder-President #1, George Washington, became an Anglican as required for original military service under the British, and occasionally quoted scripture. But he vehemently opposed any church-state union. In a 1790 letter to the Jews of Truro, he wrote: The “Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistances, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens.” A 1796 treaty he signed says “the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Washington rarely went to church and by some accounts refused last religious rites.

3. Washington was also the nation’s leading brewer, and since most Americans drank much beer (water could be lethal in the cities) they regularly trembled before the keg, not the altar. Like Washington, Jefferson and Madison, virtually all American farmers raised hemp and its variations.

4. Jefferson produced a personal Bible from which he edited out all reference to the “miraculous” from the life of Jesus, whom he considered both an activist and a mortal.

5. Tom Paine’s COMMON SENSE sparked the Revolution with nary a mention of Jesus or Christianity. His Deist Creator established the laws of Nature, endowed humans with Free Will, then left.

6. The Constitution never mentions the words “Christian” or “Jesus” or “Christ.”

7. Revolutionary America was filled with Christians whose commitment to toleration and diversity was completely adverse to the violent, racist, misogynist, anti-sex theocratic Puritans whose “City on the Hill” meant a totalitarian state. Inspirational preachers like Rhode Island’s Roger Williams and religious groups like the Quakers envisioned a nation built on tolerance and love for all.

8. The US was founded less on Judeo-Christian beliefs than on the Greco-Roman love for dialog and reason. There are no contemporary portraits of any Founder wearing a crucifix or church garb. But Washington was famously painted half-naked in the buff toga of the Roman Republic, which continues to inspire much of our official architecture.

9. The great guerilla fighter (and furniture maker) Ethan Allen was an aggressive atheist; his beliefs were common among the farmers, sailors and artisans who were the backbone of Revolutionary America.

10. America’s most influential statesman, thinker, writer, agitator, publisher, citizen-scientist and proud liberal libertine was—and remains—Benjamin Franklin. He was at the heart of the Declaration, Constitution and Treaty of Paris ending the Revolution. The ultimate Enlightenment icon, Franklin’s Deism embraced a pragmatic love of diversity. As early America’s dominant publisher he, Paine and Jefferson printed the intellectual soul of the new nation.

11. Franklin deeply admired the Ho-de-no-sau-nee (Iroquois) Confederacy of what’s now upstate New York. Inspired by the legendary peacemaker Deganawidah, this democratic congress of five tribes had worked “better than the British Parliament” for more than two centuries. It gave us the model for our federal structure and the images of freedom and equality that inspired both the French and American Revolutions.

It’s no accident today’s fundamentalist crusaders and media bloviators (Rev. Limbaugh, St. Beck) seek to purge our children’s texts of all native images except as they are being forceably converted or killed.

Today’s fundamentalists would have DESPISED the actual Founders. Franklin’s joyous, amply reciprocated love of women would evoke their limitless rage. Jefferson’s paternities with his slave mistress Sally Hemings, Paine’s attacks on the priesthood, Hamilton’s bastardly philandering, the grassroots scorn for organized religion—all would draw howls of righteous right-wing rage.

Which may be why theocratic fundamentalists are so desperate to sanitize and fictionalize what’s real about our history.

God forbid our children should know of American Christians who embraced the Sermon on the Mount and renounced the Book of Revelations…or natives who established democracy on American soil long before they saw the first European…or actual Founders who got drunk, high and laid on their way to writing the Constitution.

Faith-based tyranny is anti-American. So are dishonest textbooks. It’s time to fight them both.

Jefferson didn’t just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was “the inspired word of God”; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, “There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites” (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, “Politics and Religious Illiteracy,” Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33). Anyone today who would make a statement like this or others we have quoted from Jefferson’s writings would be instantly branded an infidel, yet modern Bible fundamentalists are frantically trying to cast Jefferson in the mold of a Bible believing Christian. They do so, of course, because Jefferson was just too important in the formation of our nation to leave him out if Bible fundamentalists hope to sell their “Christian-nation” claim to the public. Hence, they try to rewrite history to make it appear that men like Thomas Jefferson had intended to build our nation on “biblical principles.” The irony of this situation is that the Christian leaders of Jefferson’s time knew where he stood on “biblical principles,”

Wendy, what don’t you get when I mention the “founding of our country”?

Native Americans were here BEFORE our nation was founded…obviously. But has nothing to do with the principles of our founding.

You also misquote the first ammendment. You forgot “establishment” of religion. And people like you always forget the “or prohibit the free excercie thereof” including prayer days by Presidents, manger scenes in the town square, prayer and bible reading in schools, et al.

And your quote that attributes the attitude of our founders that ‘mixing religion and government menat trouble’ is laughable.

Read the quotes again in my previous post.

And you and Christopher Hitchens keep wanting to call all our founders diests. Again, read Franklins quote in my previous post. Doesn’t sound like a deist to me. And Jefferson wrote of Nature’s God…who is that?

I agree with you that today we have kicked God out of everything. You won. We are today a secular nation. But why do you insist on denying true history? We were founded by Christians. Fundementalist, evangelical, Bible-believing Christians.

Really!

I dont buy it. Thats why. You have the Church of England’s version, I have other facts. The Puritans do so like to tout that nothing of any importance happened before they got here, but that is just not the case. Really!

Calvinist dispensationalism (rapture theology) arrived in America in 1862 at the earliest with John Nelson Darby. Sorry buddy, much had already happened and we were already founded by men who thought the big-top revivalist in England were kooks, and they were scorned here.

Natures God, meaning NOT the God of The Church, of England, or it’s mythical Calvinist bible.

He could say something like “God, I wish we didn’t have slimy lying nutcases in Congress like Bachhmann and Klown”. Would that be okay?

God Damn I hate Republicans!!

Wendy,

First you’re talking Indians, now Darby and the rapture. Man it’s hard to discuss anything with a liberal.

The question was, was our country founded by Christians who believed that salvation was through faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible was the Word of God. The answer is YES! The vast majority fit that description.

The second question was: why does Obama misquote the Decl. of Ind. (leaving out God…not once but TWICE) and misrepresent our national motto (leaving out God). In addition to things like:

1) saying “we are no longer a Christian nation”,
2) not mentioning God in his 2009 thanksgiving address
3) mocks the Bible (talking about the sermon on the mount)
4) praises Islam as a ‘great religion’
5) tells NASA director his first priority is to advance Muslim contributions to science
6) says, “that we are one nation under God, and we may call that God different names but we remain one nation.” which is just like saying there is no God.
7) says guys like me should “sit in the back” and are “hostage takers”
8) has janet napolitano issue a report saying those who believe the Bible are potential terrorits!!!
9) says “Islam has always been a part of America” and talked about “Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.” (He has often praised Islam and has often condemned Christianity and the Bible.)
10) Says he is a Christian…but said “my Muslim faith” to George Stephanopoulos

And “Creator” and “Nature’s God” were both references to the God of the Bible. Yahweh. The ‘I AM’ that appeared to Moses. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You can try to rewrite history and talk of Jefferson’s deism, but in the end EVERYONE who signed the Decl. of Indep KNEW who Nature’s God was!!! Darby did not bring Christianity to America.

Merry Christmas

PS Marcus, God loves you.

And the ‘Muslim bashing’ comes out as usual, I was reading with interest and just waiting for my faith to be slammed, it always happens :-P Tell me Jeff, what is wrong with saying ‘Islam is OK’? Or not denying that not only have Muslims been in the US since it’s creation but defiantly contributed to it? How about taking a look at the frieze in the Supreme Court which shows a depiction of the Qu’ran and Mohamed as ‘law bringers’ alongside the likes of Jesus and Moses and the Bible and the Ten Commandments? Or the famous Jefferson Qu’ran? I think that Obama is very even handed with all faiths, Christianity included, I’ve yet to see him knock it.

And of course, Merry Christmas to you too :-)

I’m not drinking the Kool-Aid. It really seems to perplex you that my ancestors were here before your Calvinist ones, and teach a very different history, the real history. Oh well, talking to a christianist is like talking to a Stepford wife.

I NEVER said Darby brought Christianity to America. I said he brought a certain kind here, and I wholey dispute that it is christian at all. Some terrorists carry bibles, and Im quite glad the government is going after The Family and Co.

Wendy,

Again, we’re not talking about who was here in North America first, we are talking about the principles that founded the United States of America!

And Darby’s view is actually consistent with the Bible.

And if you can name a terrorist that carries a Bible then he doesn’t understand what is written in it.

Merry Christmas

Wow – well, an Eric I actually LIKE and agree with! Some very smart people on this post, and some not so well informed.

Its funny how you can find quotes/statistics to back-up pretty much anything you want to say, so I’m not going to go there other than to say I have read MANY quotes that refute everything Jeff is saying. Also, I believe our founders, religious or not, intentionally made our government SECULAR for a reason.

Oh, and he didn’t “misquote” anything, he simply said something different than what they wanted him to. Obama is a highly intelligent man, more so than Bachman, Kline and most of the Religous Right put together, so I’m pretty sure he new what he was quoting and that it didn’t have GOD in it to begin with.

I find it very interesting when people on the right do two things, one they act like only Christians have morals. 2nd, they go on and on about the “good ole days” Yep, when women and minorities knew their place and white men ruled everything. Sorry, but I wouldn’t want to go back to the 1950′s unless I was anything but white, straight, Christian, and middle class and didn’t care about anyone who wasn’t all of those things!

Lastly, I am quite ashamed that either one of these two people represent the State of Minnesota, especially Bachman.

Wendy,

But he DID misquote!! That is the whole point. He misquoted the first sentence of the Decl of Ind. and misquoted our national motto. Intentionally leaving out God.

And to say that “it didn’t have God in it to begin with” just simply shows your complete ignorance. Our REAL national motto says “In GOD we trust”. The REAL Decl. of Ind. says we are “enowed by our CREATOR”.

Obama misquoted both.

That is what I am ashamed of.

That last post was to Jennifer, not Wendy.

The God comment was added on June 14, 1954, Flag Day at the height of “the Red Scare” at a time when religionists wanted to make a statement about atheism and communism, and during the religious revivals of the 50′s. It became our national motto in 1956.

Obama didn’t misquote anything. I appreciate him reciting the original intent.

Wendy,

Are you completely blind? Obama said our nation motto is “e pluribis unum”. Our national motto IS “In God We Trust”. He misquoted our national motto. And 42 members of Congress called him out on it!!

But people like you don’t care. To you Obama is “god” and can do no wrong. And our country was not founded by Christians on Biblical principles. You want God kicked out completely.

Wendy, one day you will come face-to-face to God. We he say to you “enter into My Kingdom” or “depart from me I never knew you”? God leaves that decision completely up to you.

LOL, are you completely STUPID? Or did your homeschool leave this tidbit out? The new motto was first used on paper money in 1957, when it was added to the one-dollar silver certificate. By 1966, “In God we Trust” was added to all paper money. “e pluribis unum” is historically accurate.

Your zealotry means nothing to me, and you puking it on me is exactly a christianist equivalent of Sharia Law and the Muslim wacko fundamentalists. You both are repugnant.

Btw… you do NOT speak for god.

And you fundamentalist christianist-extremists do not speak for the majority of Christians either.

You all sound like 7th graders throwing spit balls at each other. Anger is not a good source of intelligence.

Simply saying “God” a lot does not one a Christian – looking at the types of laws that these Republicans support however, we can safely deduce their lack of Christianity and following Jesus’ examples…

Wendy,

We are not talking about WHEN the official motto of the US was enacted. We are talking about Obama misquoting it in 2010!

E Pluribus Unum was used on coins since our founding. But it is NOT our National Motto. Which is what Obama said it was…in two thousand and ten!

And there is no comparison between Sharia law and our Christian heritage. NONE. Sharia law says you have no rights, your genitals are to be cut as a child, you must cover your entire body except your eyes and hands, you are inferior to man (1/2 of a man), you have no right to choose your husband, you are not to be educated, your husband is allowed to hit you, you will be stoned if you commit adultery, if you are a lesbian you are to be killed, and so on.

All because their “prophet” says their “god” said so.

There is nothing of the kind in Christianity. NOTHING. Your comparison of Christianity to Sharia is offensive.

Tough. If the shoe fits… Extremism comes in Christianity and to suggest otherwise is irresponsible. I notice you quickly change the subject.

Tell me how lesbians/gays in Uganda have more rights under your brand of Christianity then you just explained about Sharia Law?

NONE

Tell me how LGBT’s have much more than that with the Judeo-christians fundies trying to take away what they have currently despite paying full single taxes. They aren’t recognized or protected federally (1138 rights to exact) via marriage to their adult partner, cannot “host” a dual national partner like their straight equivilents, May not adopt in some states, some have no parental rights in other states, can be fired for being honest to their God-made self, evicted for the same reason, still being forcibly removed from honerable service to our nation etc…

Sounds like Sharia Law to me. If we call it Christaria Law do you feel better?

Ugh. This is just grandstanding on the part of Bachmann and Kilne. Why aren’t they worried about the real problems facing our country? I am not sitting around worrying about whether the President says “God” enough. I’m worried about how to pay my mortgage.

They don’t care about that. They are too concerned with fulfilling the 7 Mountain mandate.

Wendy. You make me dizzy. I changed the subject? You brought up Sharia law!

And do you really think that God makes a person homosexual? The same God that calls homosexuality an abomination?

Gays don’t want “rights”, they want acceptance and approval. Sorry. They won’t get it from the Biblical church of Jesus Christ. God says it’s sin. Along with all sexual relations outside of marriage (between one man and one woman). To say that God makes a person homosexual is an abomination in itself.

Lucia,

Our biggest problem IS that we have kicked God out of our country. All other problems are simply consequences of kicking God out.

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance. (Psalm 33:12)

So is a defect in vision, shaving and cutting your hairs and crab cakes there cupcake! I don’t believe for a second you are a virgin or were before marriage or never had a hummer or two. You should just stop trying to speak about things you don’t have a clue.

And Jeff, how old were you exactly when you chose to be straight? Was it forced or was it natural?

But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD. (Joshua 24:15)

Wendy, all we do is of our own free will. We are beasts that cannot control ourselves like a dog chasing another in heat. We have a soul and an inherit understanding of right and wrong (Romans 2:15) given to us by God. If you ignore God long enough he will become silent to you…and He will give you over to your lusts (Romans 1:24) like that dog.

50 years ago people used the excuse “the devil made me do it”. Today, Wendy, your excuse is that “God made me do it”. God doesn’t even tempt! Let along “force” someone to be gay.

Every person is a free agent, Wendy. Accountable to God.

Should say above that “we are NOT beasts that cannot…”

Sorry for the mistype.

Answer the question Jeff, how old were you exactly when you chose to be straight? Was it forced or was it natural?

Btw, you’re not impressing me with your copy and pasting abilities.

Im not accountable to your god, your version of god or your hetero-sexist version of god. God and I are just fine, and there is NOTHING you can tell me about being gay. So, answer the question…

Wendy, there is a God in heaven. Maker of heaven and earth. Creator of man. And he loves every person (so much so that He sent His Son Jesus to die on a cross for the sins of the world).

But it is HIS heaven. He gets to decide who enters. And since He is righteous, only the righteous may enter. Fair enough?

Now, do you think the God of heaven, who loves people and wants them to be with Him in heaven, would tell us how we may enter His heaven?

The answer is YES. Yes He has.

John 3:16. John 10:9. John 14:6. Luke 12:8. Acts 4:12. Acts 16:30-31. Romans 3:22-24. Romans 10:9. Romans 5:1. Ephesians 2:8-9. 1 Timothy 2:5.

I wont cut and paste these Bible passages this time…but do a quick search at http://www.biblegateway.com

My God is the God of the Bible. I didn’t make Him up. I don’t know who your god is. But know for certain that you will appear before the God of the Bible. And your sexual behavior will have NOTHING to do with your eternal destiny. Absolutely NOTHING.

People are saved through faith, not by sexual behavior! People are condemned because they refuse to believe, not because they are gay.

That’s the Biblical truth.

God loves you so much Wendy that He sent Jesus to die for your sins (and mine). I have a long list of sins. I’m guessing you do too. Jesus died for them all. (John 1:29, 1 Corinthians 15:3, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 4:10)

Jesus, save me…from your followers.