Klobuchar: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell repeal vote will succeed Saturday

I think that to demonstrate their commitment to forcing straight young men to share a open shower room with a gay man and to sleep next to them for weeks on end, Maddow and Klobuchar should get naked and share an open shower room with a half-dozen straight men. Seriously. They could show it on Maddow’s TV show to prove they believe this is a good idea.

Because that’s what their rule will essentially demand of all straight young people in the armed forces if DADT is overturned. I rode around in submarines for 8 years. There is no privacy. None. The only reason that works is because you don’t have to think about whether you should punch out the guy next to you because he’s openly ogling you.

The people who say they’re for this are either gay, have never served in the armed forces, or are libertines with zero morals. Most likely all of the above.

It hasn’t seemed to cause a problem with all the other nations that don’t discriminate against homosexuals in their militatry forces. Are you saying that American soldiers are uniquely incapable of dealing with this? What an insult to our troops!

“The people who say they’re for this are either gay, have never served in the armed forces, or are libertines with zero morals. Most likely all of the above.”

67% of Ameicans are either gay, have never served in the armed forces, or are libertines with zero morals? How about these folks?
Former Secretary of the Army Clifford Alexander
Admiral Charles Larson, USN (ret.)
Lieutenant General Quinn Becker, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Henry Emerson, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Robert Flowers, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Robert Gard, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Jerry Hilmes, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Ira Owens, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Thomas Rienzi, USA (ret.)
Vice Admiral Harold Koenig, USN (ret.)
Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan, USN (ret.)
Vice Admiral James Zimble, USN (ret.)
Major General Anders Aadland, USA (ret.)
Major General Floyd Baker, USA (ret.)
Major General Harry Brooks Jr., USA (ret.)
Major General Leslie Burger, USA (ret.)
Major General Alexander Burgin, USANG (ret.)
Major General Rosetta Burke, AUS (ret.)*
Major General William Burke, USA (ret.)
Major General Michael Conrad, USA (ret.)
Major General Eugene Cromartie, USA (ret.)
Major General James Delk, AUS (ret.)
Major General Oliver Dillard, USA (ret.)
Major General John Faith, USA (ret.)
Major General Jack Farris, USAF (ret.)
Major General Fred Forster, USANG (ret.)
Major General Robert Gamrath, AUS (ret.)
Major General Albert Genetti Jr., USA (ret.)
Major General Luis Gonzales-Vales, AUS (ret.)
Major General David Hale, USA (ret.)
Major General Randy Jayne, USANG (ret.)
Major General Lawrence Johnson, AUS (ret.)
Major General Dennis Laich, USA (ret.)
Major General Frederick Lawson, AUS (ret.)
Major General Thomas Lynch, USA (ret.)
Major General Dennis Malcor, USA (ret.)
Major General John Roth, AUS (ret.)
Major General Henry Rasmussen, USA (ret.)
Major General Alan Salisbury, USA (ret.)
Major General Michael Scotti Jr., USA (ret.)**
Major General Harry Sieben, USANG (ret.)
Major General Paul Smith, USA (ret.)
Major General Robert B. Smith, USA (ret.)
Major General Charles Starr Jr., USA (ret.)
Major General Story Stevens, USA (ret.)
Major General Joseph E. Turner, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General John C. Adams, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Clara Adams-Ender, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Hugh Aitken, USMC (ret.)
Brigadier General John “Joe” Allen, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General Patricia Anderson, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Dale Barber, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General George Baxter, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Baxter, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General George Blysak, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Harold Bowman, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Douglas Bradley, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Jack Capps, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Richard Carter, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Steve Chapplis, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General BG David Cole, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General William Colvin, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Joseph Cutrona, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Tom Daniels, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General Von DeLoatch, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Dilworth, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General George Eggers Jr., USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Evelyn Foote, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Giffen, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Hardy Jr., USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Carlos Hayden, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Edwin Heffelfinger, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General James Hunt, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General John H. Johns, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General J.D Johnson, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Keith H. Kerr, CSMR (ret.)
Brigadier General Douglas Kinnard, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Dean Mann, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General James Martin, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General William Meehan II, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Harold Miller, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Kenneth Newbold, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General I.R. Obenchain Jr., USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Phil Peay, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Dorothy Pocklington, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Poirot, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Philip Pushkin, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Virgil Richard, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General William Richter, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Kenneth Rieth, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Ernst Roberts, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Murray Sagsveen, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Norman Salisbury, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Donald Schenk, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Bettye Simmons, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Theodore Vander Els, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Daniel Wardrop, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Watling, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General John Weinzettle, USA (ret.)
Rear Admiral James Barnett, USN (ret.)
Rear Admiral Robert Krasner, USN (ret.)
Rear Admiral Charles Rauch, USN (ret.)
Rear Admiral Alan Steinman, USPHS (ret.)

All support the repeal of DADT.

Dennis, you are full of it.

Let’s not forget to add Colin Powell, General John Shalikashvili, Gen. James Jones and the 70-76% of active Service members who said repeal would have a positive, a mixed, or no effect on aspects of task cohesion.

Dennis seems a little obsessed with the thought of 2 men showering and sleeping next to each other, to me…

Alie – I was thinking the same thing. In fact, most of those ranting and raving about the repeal of this nonsense focuses on that. Kinda makes you wonder doesn’t it?

So Dennis, do you also go after those men walking by you on the street if you think they might – just might – be having impure thoughts? Maybe you punch them out just to be on the safe side? Maybe we should get government involved in cleansing the minds of any potential impure thoughts floating around out there?

Silliness – pure silliness….

Dennis also seems to think that because soldiers don’t openly know about them know, that somehow that means there aren’t gay soldiers showering next to each other or sleeping next to each other, which is not the case.

My partner is currently serving as the ship surgeon on an aircraft carrier, deployed. As her family at home, myself and my 10 month old daughter get no rights: we have no support from the base, we don’t get to go on base, we don’t get the benefits of free membership for sites that help families find babysitters, we don’t get equal pay because she is considered “single without dependents”. It is ridiculous to think that she and other soldiers would be asked to put their lives on the line for our freedoms but not get the same freedoms themselves, primarily freedom of speech. And, to ask someone to closet themselves about who they are and who their families are is ridiculous. Any woman or minority not need look back to far in history to remember what it was like to fight for equal rights. This is a shameful practice.

And, let’s not forget that not too long ago as well women were not allowed to serve at all because of the issue of sexually inappropriate relationships with men. These types of relationships are not allowed in the military anyway, gay or straight. So, Dennis, maybe you should think about opening your mind up a bit and realizing that being gay isn’t about looking at every straight man or woman on the ship in the shower or next to your bunk and wanting to jump them. We are not animals. Our private lives and relationships are just like those of heterosexuals. I gather if you actually knew these soldiers for who they are, you might have the opportunity to learn that. Maybe the repeal of DADT will allow that to happen.

Alie, yeah, I’m sure I haven’t done it as often as you have.

Well, it is pretty hot to think about…

Sean, there’s uh, a reason all those people you listed are “retired.”

Most people do retire at some point Dennis. Why do you think they are retired?

Lets take the first guy on the list.

“A 1958 graduate of the United States Naval Academy, Larson twice served as Superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. He also served as Commander in Chief, United States Pacific Command (CINCPAC). His classmates at the Academy included future U.S. Senator John McCain and Vice Admiral John Poindexter.

Admiral Larson was the first naval officer selected as a White House Fellow and served his fellowship in 1968 as Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Interior. From 1969 to 1971, he served as Naval Aide to the President of the United States. He reported back to sea duty as executive officer of the nuclear attack submarine USS Sculpin. Then from 1973 to 1976, he served as commanding officer of the nuclear attack submarine USS Halibut. In 1976, Admiral Larson assumed duties as Commander, Submarine Development Group ONE in San Diego, Calif., in which he headed the Navy’s worldwide deep submergence program.

Larson’s major military decorations include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Navy Distinguished Service Medal (7 awards), Legion of Merit (3 awards), the Bronze Star , Navy Commendation Medal and Navy Achievement Medal. He has also been decorated by the governments of Japan, Thailand, France and Korea.”

So tell me Dennis, why is Admiral Larson, uh, retired? Pleas provide us with your amazing insight.

“So tell me Dennis, why is Admiral Larson, uh, retired? Pleas provide us with your amazing insight.”

Don’t hold your breath.

Here is another one Dennis, care to explain why you feel this person from the list retired?

“Lieutenant General Henry Everett “Hank” Emerson, United States Army (Ret.), known as “The Gunfighter,” was an American military leader. He is primarily remembered as the commanding officer of the 2nd Infantry Division in South Korea in the mid-1970s, in which Colin Powell served as a battalion commander. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy, class of 1947.

Where he gained notice was in his controversial methods in fighting in Vietnam. He gained recognition in the Vietnam war for his tactical ability on the battlefield. He conceived aerial reconnaissance and combat methods employed effectively against the Viet Cong, which included “checkerboard tactics,” “Jitterbug strikes” and Eagle Flights. He demonstrated that American soldiers could effectively “out-guerilla” the Viet Cong. Emerson also developed the “seal-and-pile-on technique” (the rapid build-up of combat power to surround and destroy an enemy force). These highly complex tactics shattered many large enemy units.”

Awards: Distinguished Service Cross (2)
Silver Star (5)
Bronze Star (2)
Purple Heart (2)

Anomalies.

You obviously have no direct experience or you wouldn’t have bothered to give us a list of a couple dozen people who don’t care one way or another because they no longer live in the trenches and probably never cared about the enlisted people when they served anyway.

And “Admiral Larson” had a personal shower in his lavish quarters and a Filapino personal aid who was most likely gay.

Keep grasping at those straws Dennis.

To SeanH with his contumely and his list of retired military people supporting DADT repeal, I understand that there are much longer lists of those who support keeping the ban in place.
Additionally, the ‘survey’ conducted by the Pentagon was a flawed, biased glorified poll. They asked the questions assuming that it would be repealed and how people would live with it rather than ask whether or not it should be repealed. It’s simply a piece of garbage. More research needs to be done, at the very least.

“And “Admiral Larson” had a personal shower in his lavish quarters and a Filapino personal aid who was most likely gay.”

And this matters, why?

“a couple dozen people who don’t care one way or another because they no longer live in the trenches”

Sooo…why do you care so much then, O Retired One?

You guys do realize that Dennis isn’t really here to discuss the merits of repealing DADT. History and facts are invariably against him. He’s just pissed because he knows he’s lost the war and is taking his anger out here.

I’m sure he’ll quip that he’s not angry, that his own opinions ARE facts which we should listen to instead of, say, the quite detailed list of high ranking officials who do support repeal of DADT, and that I’m just a low-life liberal who’s queer and never served in the military before, which does nothing to advance his argument that repealing DADT is a bad move.

By all means, everyone, indulge him. Just don’t be shocked when at the end of the day his rhetoric hasn’t exactly changed to one of acceptance. No force in heaven or on earth will change his mind.

Yeah, but its kinda fun completely blowing his “arguments” out of the water.

Dennis,
Right now, every armed forces person has showered with a gay person, they just don’t know who. There have been closeted gays in armed forces since day 1 that they existed.

Grow up and deal with the fact that gays exist and that discrimination is wrong.

“Right now, every armed forces person has showered with a gay person, they just don’t know who.”

And let’s keep it that way.

I’m not moved by the liberal political opinions of clueless civilians and pampered senior military officers. I’m more concerned with the enlisted people who don’t have the luxury of personal quarters and private facilities. And the survey shows that about 70% of the front-line grunts oppose this wussification of the armed services.

You people don’t care because you’ve lived your entire lives in a wussified America and obviously embrace it.

I’m gay, Canadian, and have been serving openly in my country’s force for 8 years. I’ve fought in Afghanistan. And I’ve got my buddies back. I know my straight friends aren’t gonna rape every woman they see, and they only care that I’m there to protect them. Working with American soldiers, I couldn’t say they were afraid of me.

I don’t think Dennis understands the modern fighting man or woman. I think he’s projecting his bigotry on an honourable group of soldiers who care about serving their country. I think he’s making his country weaker, which sucks for me – my army depends on cooperation with yours.

There’s a lot less bigotry in the armed forces than some people would say. Y’all should enter the ’90s, eh?

Michael Cavlan, Andy and anyone else who publishes on Minnesota Independent have never been shy about their liberal/progressive beliefs, and the name “Independent” as nothing to do with any person being an independent.

Progressive Queer

No, I put forward that they are not open about their progressive views.

They are open about being Democrats.

The issue of gays being “allowed” to slaughter innocent civilians remain unanswered.

So does the point of Senator Amy Klobuchar wanting Julian Assange arrested.

There is a weekly protest outside of Senator Klobuchars Minneapolis office every Thursday on this very point.

I challenge Andy and the other person who can post articles to cover it. The contact person is Melissa Hill. If they want, I can contact her for them.

It is easy to argue with some right wing fruit loop like Dennis. A progressive human rights activist, not so much.

We do not get political arguements. We get person ad hominem smear attacks.

Dennis, get over your little sex fantasy that gay men want your junk. Please. No one cares about your little wanker, or bathing with you. Repealing DADT is about recieving a letter from a loved one and not having to lie about it, not going out to the titty bars with you wahhos and getting called out and fired, and mostly, not to have to die without your loved one being notified and recieving their flag and remains. So grow the hell up and extend some respect for your fellow service people and lose the petulant little wet dream you’re having.

“I’m more concerned with the enlisted people who don’t have the luxury of personal quarters and private facilities.”

If these people wanted privacy and personal quarters, what the fuck are they doing signing up for the military?

Tell you what Dennis, find some IDF members and tell them that they serve in a wussified force and get back to us on how well that worked out for you.

It’s obvious you people think the armed forces are is simply a uniformed government job. It’s not. I doubt if any of you wusses would last a day in boot camp much less an extended tour in combat or at sea.

Why don’t we do the intelligent adult thing and let the people who are serving decide whether or not they want to be intimate with the gays and not those who were too good or too busy to serve their country but never too busy to tell others how to run the military.

> Why don’t we do the intelligent adult thing and let the people who are serving decide whether or not they want to be intimate with the gays …

heh heh

As intelligent and responsible adults, they of course can decide who they want to be intimate with.

And then there is the matter of the doctrine of civilian control of the military.

So what is your point, Dennis?

Sheesh.

It ain’t over til it’s over. Sure homosexuals, bisexuals (how come they are the silent group in LGBT?) and transgendered people will succeed in their demands for ‘equality.’
People have not thought out the repercussions of such a cataclysmic change. For the first time in human history these sundry perversions will be elevated to an equal status with heterosexuality. The results are profound for the future of human kind. This is nothing less than a reordering of what it means to be human. It appears inevitable that those pushing for legitimization of these various sexual perversions will succeed. But after this will come the dissolution of the dominant civilization. Don’t expect the Muslims to roll over on this one. Don’t expect genuine Christians to roll over for this either. The powers that be will have a fight on their hands the like of which they are unable yet to imagine.

“The Nations rage and the peoples utter folly.”

as someone who has served and is currently serving as an enlisted servicemember it is important for me to say that all of my brothers and sisters, regardless of branch, rank, gender, religion, ethnicity, or sexuality deserve to have their families stand with them as they depart for a mission or deployment. it is heartbreaking to know that right now there are hundreds of families of deployed homosexual soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who do not have access to the family support services of the military network.

The people on active duty signed a contract to serve for a certain period of time. They should be allowed to leave early now if they want to.

According to the Pentagon survey, about 70% of combat marines and army infantry oppose overturning DADT. About 25% of those currently serving would want to end their enlistment early if it happened. They should.

The anti-American democrats have finally succeeded in doing what the nazis, the soviets and the red chinese couldn’t do. Destroy the u.s. military.

Because you take orders. That is what military and para-military do. Listen to Gen. Petreus. ‘If you can’t handle it, get the hell out!’ That’s an order. Spare us the swill.

Dennis

The majority of the white military did NOT want racial discrimination against African Americans to end either back in the not to distant past. It ended. Everyone survived and adjusted. In other words, you don’t always get what you want if what you want is just plain stupid. Deal with it.

actually meant ‘segregation’ not ‘discrimination’

sorry

-Dennis

That’s cool, I’ve spent a good amount of my enlisted time wishing the white trash I was stuck serving with would leave, looks like I’m getting an early Christmas present.

Aren’t straight men already showering with gay ones in the military (and everywhere else men shower together)? I suppose admitting publicly and formally that one is gay really affects reactions in the shower (for people like Dennis). Who cares? Embarrassment in a shower is nothing compared to denying people their identify as if their sexual orientation is a crime.

I suggest people stop letting homophobe Dennis determine the agenda. Wait for him to deal with reality and learn critical thinking.

The irony, of course, is that the republicans ended the draft to satisfy the whining liberals who refused to fight the communists. Now the same whining liberals are demanding that their butt buddies be allowed to serve. We should bring back the draft and make them all serve whether they want to or not.

Dennis, you are so angry right now. Can’t wait to see how ticked you are a couple of years down the road when the military is humming along just fine despite your ridiculous predictions of doom.

As much as I loath to bring up his support of anything, I find it amusing that Dick Cheney now falls into your reality free categorization of “whiny liberal” since he also supports the wise move made by the United States congress today. And as I pointed out yesterday-Close to 70% of Americans support the repeal. So I guess that shoots down one of the right wing’s favorite claims, that this is a conservative nation, right out of the water. Have you ever made that claim Dennis? Boy you must be confused right now.

Nixon CAMPAIGNED on ending the draft. I guess he was a whiny liberal as well. Your grasp of history is as tenuous as your grasp of facts.

They are already serving, and you are really having a delusional sexual fantasy thinking gay men want you. Spare us all your obsession.

Butt buddies, Dennis? You really have thought long and hard on this issue, haven’t you?

Comment deleted, Michael Cavlan. Nix the namecalling if you’d like to keep commenting, per our comment policy. Thanks.

Dennis has done nothing BUT namecalling. Yet his comments are tolerated. As they should be, by the way. The right to speak your opinion should be paramount.

Anyway, my deleted comment in regards to Dennis stands, even if not allowed. He never answer it either, did he?

Rob C has gotten my point though. Ignore Dennis or any other of his ilk. Do not let them set the agenda. Their political position of bigotry and homophobia do not deserve any attention or respect at all.

Yup

What I thought. When gay Americans have the “right” to slaughter innocent civilians (ala Wikileaks releases) it is a great day of celebration.

Wait. What if gays slaughter gay civilians?

Oh wait. AMERICAN gays can slaughter gay people from other countries.

Hip Hip Horrrayyyyyyyyy.

Go Team America.

Now, please go back to your red team/blue team debate.

Michael is the far left bookend to Dennis on the far right: out of touch, caustic and likely a touch mentally ill.

I will continue to speak out about toxic Calvinist attempted coup of the government. The christianists lost their ability to openly hate in the 60′s and are advancing an ideology aimed in preserving their hatred to gays by wrapping it in a bible this time and touting fake “science.”. When we ignore problems they tend to get worse, and fester. The way to tackle it is by exposing and “outing” it.
The difference Carrie is that Dennis has his rights and wants the right to openly hate. Talk about special rights. Whos next, the KKK?

Carrie

Calling someone mentally ill is a liable offense. Not to mention offensive..

Of course, being a lone voice of dissent against the racist and illegal wars, supported by Democrats and Republicans together, with the use of OUR tax money gets tough.

Especially when one calls on the bipartisan nature of the support for the war and it’s funding..

Some folks are anti-war when the Red Team is responsible and then are suddenly not anti-war when “their” Blue Team is in charge.

I am just calling you all on it.

Go Blue Team, right?

Michael Cavlan’s suggestion of violence against Christians proves my point.
This blog seems to bring out my maturity of evil.

The last time the maturity of evil (2 Timothy 3 ) tried to take over the world, it was stopped by a coalition of Christian nations but at the cost of thousands of lives in one day – D-day – to defeat Hitler’ army.

The biblical implications of the military strategy behind this radical policy change to put anti-Christian homosexuals in control of the US military, tells just how close we are to the return of Jesus Christ.

If the next Hitler is going to succeed, he is going to have to first take control of the militaries of the Christians nations (namely the UK and the US).

The economic collapse that is under way will position Europe as the future global financial leader, not because their massive debt problems are solved, but because they are the first nation to address them and therefore will be the first nation to recover from the welfare economics that has led the world into this global financial meltdown. The US will eventual have to give Europe control of much of its military when the dollar collapses as the US is forced to finally address its massive financial collapse. At the same time, it will take perhaps less than 10 years for anti-Christian homosexuals to move up the ranks in the US military to gain influence over the military decisions of the largest military in the world.

When the next Hitler (the anti-Christ) comes into power, scripture tells us he will rise out of Europe and will bring prosperity in the mists of global financial troubles. And he will gain control of the armies of the West, because he attacks Israel with them (Zechariah 12:1-3). Hitler killed millions before he was overtaken, but the next Hitler will kill billions as scriptures tells us that 1/3’rd of the world will die in just one of the battles.

You see, the scripture is rich with information to inform the wise of what is coming. In the end, scripture tells us that the anti-Christ will gain control of all armies of the world as he is given a short time to deceive the entire world – and then comes the King, Jesus Christ to stomp him out once and for all.

I realize that it may take a few years for some of you to realize the scriptures were true all along, and none of this makes any sense to you yet, but that is ok, you have been blessed to read this truth because in the years to come it will very difficult to find anyone who has not been silenced that has the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

“.. The kingdom of God has come near you” (Mark 1:15) Repent and give your life to Jesus Christ while you will have breath.

Tim, What would you do without your scripture to mislead you? The bible is ancient writings of the Bronze age, no new thinking since then. No science is in the bible. Why give credibility to a book that is superceded by Pagan scholars from which the bible especially the New Testament is probably based on. The notion of Jesus Christ and god was from pagan literature. Even the town of Nazereth was built after the 1st century. Many Jewish texts have no mention of the Jesus story of crucifixion and they lived at the same time in the same area. If it was such a historic event, why no mention of it by them?
And why does the bible say thou shalt have no other gods before me? Unless there were other gods at the time, then why even say it?And our god is a jealous god; if there were other gods, pagan though they may be, then what is god jealous of if not other gods? So called humans?Just doesn’t jibe with reality. In the Bronze age gods were everywhere, Norse gods, Roman gods, Greek gods, pagan gods. Yahweh is just another god, early christian and Jewish writers of the time wanted to push their god as an exclusive god who was made to be better than any of the other gods(pure propaganda), not unlike present day religious right wingers.