Tempers flare over anti-gay bullying at Anoka-Hennepin school board meeting

So… real Christians believe cruelty to children is OK. How do these people’s myths and folktales qualify them to determine science, history and ethical standards? Back to the dark ages I guess.

Praise Jebus, God hates kindness, Amen.

Having grown up Conservative Christian, I was counting the days to see how long it would take for someone from the Religious Right to have the balls to claim that they are the true victims when it comes to anti-bullying legislation that seeks to create a safe haven for ALL children. Just to put things in perspective, kids from the Christian Right are indoctrinated in the language of victimhood – and taught to be prepared to be taunted for their beliefs and lifestyle choices. And while I think the martyrdom indoctrination taught to some young believers is unfortunate and even dangerous, there is the element of being very different and an outsider that will ultimately attract conservative Christians to this anti-bullying dialogue.

The main problem might be passed over here – that children, tweens, teenagers and young adults need and deserve mental health screening and counseling… whether the student is suicidal or a bully.

I will be interested to see how long it takes for the Christian Right to use the current anti-bullying measures to push through more Christian friendly public school environments. This might come back to haunt us.

Laurie Thompson clearly needs to check her children into a christian school.

Right before she checks herself into a metal hospital.

God doesn’t condone what Laurie Thompson says and does.

And she will answer directly to him one day for the words she spoke at this meeting.

And what will she tell God when God asks Laurie Thompson why she treated HIS gay creations in the manner she did? That she said those things to HONOR him?

Morality indeed, Laurie Thompson.

Morality indeed.

O gosh – I truly get a kick out of Christians telling other Christians they aren’t real or good Christians. I guarantee that Laurie has as much Biblical information to back-up her beliefs as those who say she is misinterpreting scripture. I’ve been on both sides… and I don’t envy the believers who still play that game.

@Bill As for her putting her kids in a Christian school? Lots of Christian parents can’t afford to put their kids in Christian schools… which was one of the reasons I got an awesome (secular) K-12 public school education. I’d rather have Laurie Thompson keep her kids in the public school – for all sorts of reasons, but one being that it might be the only place that her children will be allowed to think outside the Christian Right box.

Following up on Xtine’s public school comment, I’ve read not too long ago the power of public schools as an equalizing force in American society in that public schools offer children of all kinds and backgrounds to mingle and get to know each other developing that common area that allows all of us to be Americans. This is what makes us unique compared to most other countries. It is this phenomenon that causes me to be an ardent supporter of public schools at the expense of home-schooling or private schools even as I recognize that the quality of education can be better, but that requires commitment by parents, family and community to set expectations that students do their job. Teachers and staff can only do so much; the student and parents/family/community must do their part as well.

So let me get this right.

A teen says he’s gay, and that’s harassment of people who dislike gays.
A teen says the gay kid is a monster and should die, and that’s free speech.

A hint to the fundamentalists out there. There is no First Amendment right to live in a world where nothing offends you. Grow up.

To the Christian saying Jesus is taken out of schools because “very few people who are offended by the Christian faith”. You are ignorant or you are a liar. Jesus is taken out of schools, because schools are run by the government, and the government should not be in the religion business. Our tax dollars should not go towards promoting your Jesus or Allah or Shiva or Thor or whatever.

I am Christian. I am Gay. I was born Gay. I fought being Gay to fit in for 35 years. I used women to be accepted, and left them when it got to serious … so I could fit into what others wanted me to be. My life was miserable.

In 1988 I accepted myself as the Gay man God created me to be. Since then, by accepting Jesus and the Truth into my life, I have been blessed with constant miracles.

This is not about pushing the Gay agenda. It’s about teaching our children the truth! Gays are here. They are not going to disappear. Straight, conservative Christians create more Gay children than Gays do! If they don’t get educated about the truth, these children are doomed to a sad closeted false life that could probably end in suicide. God created Gays for God’s reasons. Curb the world’s over population, find loving parents for children abandoned by straight people. We need to trust in God’s plan.

It’s time we lay aside our egos and judgements. Stop pouring obscene amounts of our money into initiatives to take/protect our rights, and focus instead, on healing our economy, poverty, homelessness, and starving! Both Gay and straights!

Steve Leong
Hawaii

I heard it said that God put gays on earth to test the humanity of straights.

It is not against any Conservative Christian to allow for equality. It is not against anyone’s religion to acknowledge and accept that all different thoughts, opinions and lifestyles, religions, sexual orientations and races will live, and be accepted in the world.

Just cause I like jazz, doesn’t mean that all other music needs to be eliminated from the world.

It is not a form of religion to be gay! lol, how do you think that putting up a poster of a religious sentiment is the same as an ad for a community of people that will be gathering? Put up the same ad saying Christians youth league will be meeting or the dance for the christian youth league will be held…. that is the same as the glbt gay alliance meeting will be …

I personally think the life style of a Christian is unhealthy. It literally goes against my personal beliefs, and my choice of religion and my lifestyle. I Personally do not want a extreme christian near my children, or to be in charge of my child in any form or way. Does that give me that right to say you can’t be within the community? Do I have the right to say begone, go to hell? For in my opinion, and my view of the christian faith you actually will be going to the hell that you prescribe to.

Its women like her that gives reason to why we need laws to protect people. In this case the glbt community.

signed a non gay parent, in support of all people to have protection and equality.

No offense, Lane, but I’d rather not be someone else’s “test.”

@ Steve – Amen!!

There is no need for any of this to be happening! We are adults and we teach our children by example. Look at the hate happening, and the suffering, the name calling and the judging.

So WWJD? What would happen if He were standing there in that room. Can you imagine some of that ridiculous logic, excuses and false pride coming from JC? I can’t. Steve is absolutely right on. It’s heartbreaking to know that many of the LGBT community is being told that God hates them, or that they need to “clean up” before they can begin to believe that God loves them. Heartbreaking. Gods knows what he made, and didn’t JC say to pull the plank out of your own eye first before you go examining someone else? Let God do his job. He told us to not judge and to love one another. It starts right here with protecting and loving ALL of our children.

Trying to make excuses for what you don’t understand by saying homosexuality is
“taught”, or “because you’re been abused and you’re confused” or some other “reason” is just a deflector for having to deal with something you’re afraid will send YOU to hell if you make room for it in your life and accept the fact that people are born gay and no, it’s not their complete identity – so in light of that, why is the Board MAKING it the main point by their ommission of protection in the district policy? If everyone has protection, where is it?

This gag order on sexual orientation is not the way to do it.

Me, neither, Katie B. As a rational humanist who is atheistic, even that statement makes no sense.

When I heard this statement, I understood it at the time to mean that God would not look kindly at all, would punish those straights who mistreat gays just because they are gay.

I keep hearing this battle cry every time these bigots speak: “Stand up to the Gay Agenda!!!”

And I keep asking, “What is this Gay agenda?” Was there a big, national meeting somewhere where this agenda was set? Was the vote secret? I didn’t hear about it.

Please, someone tell me! No one ever does.

I’m gay and I don’t even know what this frightening agenda is.

Anyone??

This statement doesn’t take into account the harm that many closeted gays with internalized homophobia cause themselves and other people including straights and those gays who are out. This is totally screwed up even without having the non-existent God and fantastical writings in the mix.

I am gay, and I don’t even know what this frightening agenda is, either. Heck, I can’t even name the one or few that is coordinating this “homosexual takeover of America” or whatever … Meh.

So the truth comes out… the gay lobby is the bully… trying to bully the school board into giving gay students extra rights that no one else has, so that their moral convictions can be forced on everyone else. Sounds like the making of a theocray!

That does not sound like equality, but inequality as gays students would become a protected class that are not accountable to the rights of other students to believe their own moral ideas about sexuality.

Shame on the gay lobby, they are clearly the bully in the room. No one should be bullied, including the school board, and bullying the school board is not the way to stop bullying in schools.

The anger and hatred of the gay lobby does not overrule equality and religious freedom. Perhaps the gay lobby should create a private school that best supports their religious ideas about sexuality, rather than forcing the public school to teach, promote and accept their religion. I thought the public school was suppose to be a neutral place, why is the gay lobby trying to force their religion into the public school?

Sounds like Thompson is the next Michelle Bachmann.

“Why yes, God DID tell me to run for political office!”

Pushin your gay theocracy swill again are ya Tim. LMAO. You sound like Maggie G trying to spin everything round and round even “trying” to use words like equality. You shouldn’t use big words you don’t understand. Your MFC “talking points” aren’t gaining any traction.

Sexual orientation is morally neutral. Sexual orientation =/= religion.

Each person owns his or her sexuality, and is responsible for his or her behavior which includes respecting other people and their sexualities. Those who do not acknowledge this reality are acting immorally.

Each person owns his or her religious convictions or lack thereof, and is responsible for his or her behavior which includes respecting other people and their religious convictions or lack thereof. Those who do not acknowledge this reality are acting immorally.

Clear enough for you, Tim?

Kevin -

May no mistake the gay agenda is capable of destroying Ameirca, if not confronted.

If you truely wanted to understand how dangerous is it, there are lots of resources for example, this book.

“Correct, Not Politically Correct: How Same-Sex Marriage Hurts Everyone”

http://www.amazon.com/Correct-Politically-Same-Sex-Marriage-Everyone/dp/1607081628

Lane –

Your own reasoning proves that sexuality is moral.

According to you, if I don’t agree with you, I’m acting immorally. That statement says that you have a personal moral standard and that it is above everyone that disagrees with you. You clearly have a moral conviction about sexuality.

This also means that you are imposing your moral standards on others, which clearly does not respect the religious convictions of others, negating your next statement.

“Each person owns his or her religious convictions or lack thereof, and is responsible for his or her behavior which includes respecting other people and their religious convictions or lack thereof.”

Wow Tim! That looks like some book! Here’s a quote from a reader and fan of the book:

“Perhaps the most thought-provoking statements refer to British anthropologist J.D. Unwin’s study of eighty-six civilized and uncivilized cultures encompassing 5,000 years. Unwin revealed the most prosperous cultures upheld a strong marriage ethic. For those civilizations “…that abandoned this ethic, including the Roman, Babylonian, and Sumerian empires…,” a complete end of their culture soon followed after liberalizing sexual practices”

We certainly don’t want to go the way of Babylon do we? I mean fire from heaven and all that stuff could be kind of a bummer. What would that do to property values?

I guess we better be pretty frightened of that “gay” stuff. I know I’m going out tonight and gettin me some broad to bang. NO MORE gay stuff for me!!

http://biblioblography.blogspot.com/2006/09/frank-turek-bigot-and-bully.html

Just admit it Tim. You are Minnesota Family Council.

http://breakingspells.net/frank-turek-straw-man-warrior/

http://vimeo.com/6148456 Hitchens v Turek

Lane –

Regarding your statement, “As a rational humanist who is atheistic”.

Neither humanism nor atheism are rational, because neither can explain the evidence for God or prove that God does not exist. They are both irrational explanations for what man cannot explain, which provide a shallow and unstable resting place for the soul of man that refused to reconcile with God.

They provide an identity to build one’s life upon apart from God. But even when you find comfort in this collective identity, you are empty because the conclusion is that life has no value and no purpose. There is on value in life apart from God. Only God can meet our designed need for him.

Kevin –

Like I thought, you are not interested in the evidence.

@Tim, because you think so is not evidence. It surely can be for you alone, even for many. But it is not truth or fact, or science or math.

Take your morality and live it. Do not physically harm another human being and pay your taxes.

stop indoctrinating the public with your personal choice of lifestyle. Your agenda is dangerous and is immoral to me, I do not want it in my life.

Tim, you haven’t provided “evidence.” Not a drop. You are puring a lot of old, sour and regurgitated kool-aid though.

Gay people aren’t looking to convert people from being straight to being gay. They don’t go around telling people that being straight is sinful or unnatural. They want to have the same legal rights as straight people have.

Many Christians, on the oher hand, are on a mission to convert as may people as they can to their way of thinking. They will tell you that non-believers are going to hell, are sick, etc. They want laws passed or preserved that exclude people who they don’t approve of.

So which group is really the one that has an agenda?

I am a little concerned that the wording be correct for anti- bullying.

Remember the 0 tolerance for drugs. Later a young teen girl is strip searched because they thought she had an IB Prophine pill.

0 tolerance for weapons elementary school girl suspended for having a plastic knife with her lunch. High school boy suspended and charged for having a box cutter from his job in his car.

As for religion I am not superstitious so I generally find it annoying.

Like in the animal world over population of a species creates same sex animals to reduce populations. It is a very natural animal population control device. Not all animals of course but thousands of different species have gay tendencies.

Good story–as far as it went. The question is: What did the board do? Did they blow it off? Is there already a date set for a vote of some kind? Did they say they were going to revisit the policy? What???? The New Breed of “journalists” needs to learn how to be Journalsts!

Ooops. They also need to proofread… that’s supposed to be “Journalists”.

@ Paul, excellent point. The idea of putting in words of what is considered being a bully is important, and the stages of degree’s as well.

A 5 year old teasing another 5 year old cause they tied their shoes wrong, isn’t nice behavior but is that being a bully? It could be with the way it written now.

Tim, you need to work on minding your own fucking business. My sexuality and spiritual status belongs to me and only me; neither are for you to agree or disagree with. I couldn’t care less about your sexuality or your delusions except that you force yourself onto others with what you think ought to be. Now who is being immoral, you pompous ass?

Additionally, it is not for you to judge the value of another person’s life; the only life you can do this is your own. Are you saying that you feel your life is empty and devoid of value? You might want to think about that. As for my life, you know nothing of where I’ve been, where I am at now, and where I will be. It is a very interesting life full of meaning, always surrounded by people whose lives I touch – and my life is in turn touched, too. As for you, you have nothing to offer me even as I wish you well.

Re: Paul V’s concern about the wording of the bill that Marie seconded, physical acts of bullying are easy to identify, but what about verbal harassment, for example? I am reminded of U.S. Supreme Court Potter Stewart’s famous 1964 statement “I know it when I see it” when attempting to define obscenity. We know when that hard-to-define line is crossed when that verbal harassment starts to harm the child’s self-esteem as well as the child’s right to be left alone.

The state law provides high-level guidance to the school boards who then adopt more specific policies that guide the handling of each bullying case one at a time. Now and then, this process will not work as it should; we will know – and adjust accordingly. Just like we are attempting to strengthen existing state law given what is happening at Anoka-Hennepin and its neutrality policy.

Paul V, I don’t know that same-sex attraction is nature’s way of keeping the population in check; after all, I know many gays who have children naturally. Being straight or gay is not the same as dying from disease, malnutrition, predation, violence, and such.

I am using the idea that the wording is too general and needs the stipulation of adding what is to be called being bullied. By adding sexual orientation to the list, than the F word, will then be at level with the N word. We can act then and not just “pass it off” as boys being boys.

The general wording of saying all bulling is bad. is what is bad. as you said Lane, just stating that you know it when you see it is not going to stand up in court. I am not sure my agreeing with Paul V was in the same light as how he wanted it to be :)

At the same time, we as a society can certainly use our practices wrongly. 0 tolerance isn’t the right wording. stating what we wont tolerate is.

Yep, that is why Justice Stewart uttered that statement. Like obscenity, bullying is very hard to define in legal terms that will work in most situations – hence the oft-used model of increasingly detailed verbiage the further down you go from the constitution to federal/state law to policies to rules/regulations to procedures. Additionally, each school board is semi-autonomous subject to state oversight.

In response to these statements:

“There is a huge debate whether homosexuality is on the same plane as heterosexuality. Many, including myself, believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.”

“Thompson then said that the “homosexual lifestyle” is a health risk akin to drugs and alcohol and that it would be against the morals of conservative Christians. ”

Are you kidding me? If homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, then so is heterosexuality. Oh, you don’t agree? Did you wake up and say “I choose to be straight today.” Oh, you didn’t? Well I didn’t wake up and say “I choose to be gay today.” and yet here I am.

And as for the “homosexual lifestyle” being a health risk. How is that? So we know how to have a better time than straight people. But many of us have our heads on straight on our shoulders as opposed to bigoted people like Laurie. We know what’s good and bad for our health like EVERYONE else. We just choose to have a partner of the same sex. THAT is the only thing different.

By the way, I was raised Christian and I can speak in tongues. God has a hell of a plan for my life and I plan on being a Youth pastor some day. So you can just take your ignorant beliefs and shove it.

I would like to state, for the record, that every known species on the planet, excluding asexual species, have shown homosexual tendencies. Last time I checked, there were 3 homosexual penguin couples at the MN zoo.

Tim, A little constitutional lesson for ya, “Religious freedom” affords you the right to “practice” your faith in what ever manner you choose it DOES NOT however give you the right to impose your religious views on anyone else. If you want your children ONLY taught within your own religious doctorine, then the placing them in “a public” school was a mistake on your part. A right is only a right when it doesn’t infringe on the right of another in my opinion. I can’t help but shed light on the hypocrisy of those who shamefully claim to be christians, shaking the BIBLE in the faces of those they oppose, all while defying the teachings within it. People like Tom Prichard and Barb Anderson who’s only claim to fame is their religious extremism and hate speech against children, these folks are really sick, that rail about “sexual deviance” yet it is they who are fixated on the sexual aspect ONLY of homosexuality…….what does that say about them??? What kind of message does that send?? I find it very unsettling.

http://wn.com/Gay_Penguins_Raising_Babies

Does your God ‘hate’ ‘detest’ or have human emotions? Then you are worshiping a false God. God said,”Thou shalt have No Gods before me.”
God is Love. He loves every one of his creations without reguard to race, religion, ethanicity, male or female, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transexual. He created us all and the only thing that matters is the you love God.. This was Jesus’ message to the world. GOD IS LOVE.

he fact that this issue is even being debated after the sequence of events that have occurred is disgusting. This video is for Ms. Thompson. Stellar human being. But, judging from the debating going on, she fits right in in that area. Wake the hell up people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx8SsFESyus

@Bill, unknown at this time. This was just the comment section of the meeting, so no comments, decisions were/are made. They did put out a statement regarding their policy that night. If you wish to see the agenda documents and a video of the meeting you can go to
http://anoka-k12.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=73
and here
http://anoka-k12.granicus.com/GeneratedAgendaViewer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=73

[...] MN: Tempers Flare Over Anti-Gay Bullying at Anoka Hennepin School Board Meeting. Read more  [...]

when the 2 gals talk about the “gay agenda” im sorry but Napoleon XIV started running through my head as i stood there.

Here is the Gay Agenda:

1. Spend time with family.
2. Be treated equally.
3. Buy milk.

That’s it! Threatening to all of us, isn’t it!?!

Melissa T –

Regarding your statement,

“Religious freedom” affords you the right to “practice” your faith in whatever manner you choose it DOES NOT however give you the right to impose your religious views on anyone else.”

It is not the Christians that are imposing that the gospel be taught at school, but the gay lobby that is imposing that the schools teach their religion and moral ideas about sexuality. That is a direct violation of religious freedom as your have described.

No students are allowed to bully each other under the current bullying policy, but creating bullying rules about faith is a violation of the Constitutional protection of religious freedom. Religious freedom is not only the right to ‘practice’ your faith, but to live out your faith as school, work and home. Schools that create anti-bullying rules that include faith based language will be sued for unconstitutionality.

Regarding your statement,

“If you want your children ONLY taught within your own religious doctrine, then the placing them in “a public” school was a mistake on your part. A right is only a right when it doesn’t infringe on the right of another in my opinion.”

Then why is the gay lobby bullying the school board to force every student and teacher to accept their religious doctrine? Again, this is a direct contradiction of your own statement, as the gay lobby is infringing on the rights of other opinions.

Why does anyone think adding religious rules to school policy will have any effect on student behavior? Where is the proof that this is a good solution? Where is the proof that bullying is even the problem? I think an investigation needs to be done by a third party to find the real source of the students that are depressed. Why are the school counselors not helping the students?

If you want the schools to teach your religious doctine, then you need to start a private school as every other religion does. We cannot have the public school system teaching the gay lobby religious doctine.

Tim, the “scary” “gay lobby” includes fair-minded, loving family; friends; neighbors; co-workers including union members; politicians; religious authorities in welcoming churches including many church ladies, many of whom are doting grandmothers and great-grandmothers; and on and on. They are wonderful people, so nice to hang around with!

Lane –

I completely agree, almost all supporters for the gay lobby are fair-minded, loving family, friends, co-workers, wonderful people, etc.

But they have no idea what they are supporting. That is why I am informing them on this blog.

We cannot have the public school system teaching the gay lobby religious doctine.

Oh pffft, Tim. The “gay lobby” probably would laugh you out the door with the more charitable among them wondering about your mental state, whether to seek medical intervention for you … Believe me, they know what is going on.

@Tim: Beliefs, religious or otherwise, that take away equality, protection, or quality o living for another human being should not be allowed in out schools. Furthermore, the need for education regarding homosexuality is the only way homophobia will be combatted in this country. Period. How many more kids have to die before this country sees this? I don’t give a shit if you believe I am a sinner because I was BORN gay. This is a gay man saying this. If I could control my penis and its functionality, I probably would have “chosen” to marry and have kids. It would be a hell of a lit easier than living a life dealing with people like you, this school board, and Sister Mary Thompson.

P.S. I was raised Catholic, and I don’t condemn Christians. I condemn conservative, narrow-minded, ignorant people–people who deny anyone equality or fundamental rights based upon minority status–regardless of the bigoted person’s race, religion, political affiliation, gender, or sexuality. You, sir, fall within this category of ignorance. It is you on the offense, without which homosexuals wouldnt need a defense. Remember that. Our agenda is protection an quality of life. Yours is preventing that. And watch the video I posted above. It’s like chaining a child up and leaving that child alone in a cold cellar, allowing for no quality of life and happiness because YOUR belief is that the child is not a child conforming to YOUR beliefs (maybe he is gay, or eats seafood, or works on Sundays…you know, all of those Biblical “sins”), and then having the balls to say that anyone who comes forward trying to free that child is taking away YOUR rights and infringing on YOUR beliefs. Are you serious here? Who the hell do you people think you are?

I’m willing to bet that conservative Christians would have an issue with depictions of Allah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster being displayed in school cafeterias.

Lane –
Regarding your question, “Are you saying that you feel your life is empty and devoid of value?”

Yes, before Christ my life was void and empty because all the reasoning in the world does not fill the void that we were created with.

As for your statement, “As for my life … It is a very interesting life full of meaning, always surrounded by people whose lives I touch – and my life is in turn touched, too.”

Yes, but do you realize that the value you find in your relationships prove that God exists, because our love of each other cannot be explained by anything else. And if God exists, why refuse to get to know him, especially when he says that he has a plan for us in which he has an interest in us in which we are valued.

And you statement, “As for you, you have nothing to offer me even as I wish you well.”

Yes, it is true I have nothing to offer you, but Christ does. He is the one that is pursuing you.

“I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.” (Revelation 3:20)

Ok, once again.

ACKNOWLEDGING THAT SOMETHING IS REAL does not “teach” about it. It simply acknowledges it! saying that there are families that are gay, that you can not attack people for being gay, that GAY is there! HERE! does not TEACH ABOUT GAY.

there is no GAY RELGION! there is NOT GAY AGENDA, IF YOUR SAYING ITS REAL AND PART OF LIFE.

Gay is just FRICKEN GAY!

you can hate gays, you can disagree that a man should marry another man, that they should have sex with one another.

but it doesn’t support anything to say it is REAL.

there are 1500 mammals on this planet that have same sex relations or sex. Gay or what ever term you want to use or has been used in time, has been here since the beginning of time. There has been cultures that have embraced it, there have been cultures of warriors that were all male and did not have any relations with women at all.

Your personal religious belief on the gay society can not change gay. And once again, gay can not change your religion. perhaps even more importantly it does not change it.

If you need to live in a society where all things reflect only your religion than by all beans cloister yourself and or move to a religious state. there are many countries that are.

Marie –

I agree, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging people are gay. But that is not what this is about. Everyone already realized that some people have sex with the same sex. We don’t need to force schools to teach kids this. The very fact that kids are teasing each other about it proves that kids already acknowledge people are gay.

This is not what the gay lobby is asking for. They want to create laws specifically for gay people to give them more rights than anyone else. This is unconstitutional and disregards everyone’s rights.

Tim

Lots of claims and no references to back them up. Every thing that you have said is not fact, only assumptions based on your delusions and the delusions of your masters. You have nothing to give this world but hatred and death.

Tim, is this you in the picture here: http://www.mcmaonline.org/

Tim no.

If someone is teasing some other kid, they are not being taught anything. they hear things and don’t know.

It has to be said, you can not tease anyone for being gay. Gay is here.

The gay “agenda” wants as much as anyone else, not MORE>

you want more, you want the idea of squelching all things Gay cause you don’t support the biological life happening that is GAY>

so you want something, NOT THE GAY “”AGENDA”"

bully instruction in a class…..

Here are families, they show many families, black, brown, all other colors there are, single parents, grandparents, cousins, adopted, mixed cultures, same sex parents. different religions. pictures of crosses, temples, mosques. people having dinner together.

These are people. These are different people, with different backgrounds, and different ways of living. NO ONE can bully anyone for being who they are, just because they don’t act or look like you.

THAT IS NOT TEACHING ANYONE TO SUPPORT ANYTHING, JUST NOT TO ACT AGAINST SOMETHING THAT IS DIFFERENT THEN THEY ARE.

I am a parent. I have elementary school age kids that have had this class. this is exactly how it is presented. NOT in any supportive way of anything.

As for the marriage thing. that is not what this article is about. BUT, again. It doesn’t change your religious ceremony that you think is the form of marriage. that is your marriage, you can go to your church and your thought pattern and have a blessing of your choice. and that will make it different for you than Joe and Jim who will go to their church or to the clerk at the town hall and do their thing.

Each marriage is different. Each family gets married for different reason. its all different. People get married for the idea of having children with one other person. People get married for financial support. Some people get married for personal love and affection. Some people get married because their parents tell them who they should marry. Some people marry for political gain and connection and to join two families together.

It doesn’t change YOUR marriage.

But, in the end. Your church ceremony is not a marriage. It is only a marriage after the state says it ok.

Tim,
Gay civil rights are not a “religion”.

“but the gay lobby that is imposing that the schools teach their religion and moral ideas about sexuality. That is a direct violation of religious freedom as your have described. ”

Sorry Tim, but the concept that gays have the same civil rights is not a “religious concept” it’s an American Citizen concept. It’s based on the fact the sexual orientation is a fact and not a belief promilgated by some people. The belief that Jesus is a diety who needs to be worshiped is a religious belief. The Constitution allows citizens the right to assemble, it does not say that only heterosexuals can assemble.

Bullying is an attack on someone who is different. It is wrong regardless of whether it is over race, gender, sexuality or religion. The district is wrong to treat gays as second class citizens.

Hello Tim,

You wrote,
“They want to create laws specifically for gay people to give them more rights than anyone else.”

Are you willing to back this claim up with any evidence?

Eric

Adult topics are for adults. We should not teach,”How to flirt, attract oposite sex or dating rituals of any kind. We SHOULD teach character, patriotism, love of country, family and life. We SHOULD teach all that religion would characterwise since we MUST leave out G_d …we don’t pay teachers to run a Madrassa for Allah either. MY old school mentioned Bible KJV as literature with Shakespear, which was allowed.
Likewise…civics included US Constitution, government, how bills are enacted THEN there was state history…we are all Americans unless illegals and SCHOOL should be a background for a JOB…perhaps higher education or a trade…not a foreign language to compete with dropouts on a construction gang…

Tim: The kids who have commited suicide in our district did not just enter the schools with a mental illness. The bullying from other kids- who have not been stopped by teachers regardless of any rules that are already in place -have pushed these kids to know no happiness. They see no good from life and no one will help them out of this rut. Therefore, suicide seems like the only solution. BUT THIS CHILD DID NOT START OUT HATING LIFE. It is the bullying responsible, and the bullying that needs to stop. Obviously the current situation is not working, cuz we’re up to, what, 8 suicides now? That is no coincidence sir.

@ernesto

Having a non bully practice and policy is teaching character, It in no way teaches flirting or sexuality. It teaches that there are differences and that all differences are to be accepted in the society.

Accepting something in the society is not supporting it by the way.

I don’t care if you support my beliefs or not. But as a society, as a community you must accept that there are differences. If you do not, then you must go to a society that is cloistered or a religious state.

No one gets a sexual orientation by having sex, else no one would know who they wanted to have it with beforehand. Laurie Thompson can believe it is a lifestyle choice if she wants to, but she has no proof to back it up. Why would anyone choose it when there are haters like her to contend with?
My gay son was born gay, different from his straight brothers from the get go. I believe homosexuals are part of a plan for there to be some nurturing childless adults in every society, to take in the unwanted and orphaned offspring of the heterosexuals. This is seen in many animal populations like wolves. In our ignorance, humans thwarted this by passing laws making it difficult for gays to adopt. Why else would gays be some of the most nurturing, caring and loving humans I know? Science has made it possible for gays to have a family without adopting these needy kids, but many gays do adopt where allowed. All studies to date show these kids to be doing just fine.
What I can’t figure out is how a district can allow a prom to go forward if they can’t discuss sexual orientation. Aren’t the straight couples encouraged to attend based on their sexual orientation?.

[...] – Laurie Thompson, a conservative Christian and mother of three district students aired her views at the 2/28/11 Anoka-Hennepin school board [...]

Marie –

Teaching that homosexuality is a normal behavior that is not sinning against God as the scripture clearly tells us, is teaching religion in schools. This also teaching children that scripture and Christians are wrong to believe otherwise.

What you are suggesting is to ban the Christians from the public schools, rather than accepting their right to have a difference opinion. I suggest you leave your religion out of our public schools and create your own private school.

@Tim

You don’t get that isn’t how religion works, your thinking only works if religion was a mass made for everyone thing. GAY is normal in the sense for everyone that it is real, there are gay families, there are gay people, and that is what you don’t get, to accept is not to support.

The Christians can in their own rightly way not SUPPORT gay families, and the gay person. But you do HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT THEY ARE THERE. That is what is being taught. You can not be biased against them, to say that they can’t be accepted is the the term of what a bigot is.

your word and use of normal is that its not supported by your religion, that is fine, don’t support it. But it is real, and that makes it normal.

You can not tell me that the two women down the block that have lived together for the last 25 years, that brought up two children are not real. They are real. you might might not support their union or how they raised their children. you might feel that they will burn in the hell you perceive and feel and have made the choice to support, and that is fine. But you do not have the right to say they are not real. and on top of that you don’t have the right to tease, bully attack or take away any human right you get on a daily basis

I am not suggesting to ban any religious body from any school, but to bring in that main ingredient that makes up the religion is what is banned, that philosophy of the religion which is what makes choice, not fact, amongst all religion, is what is banned to be taught in the school, but not the person who thinks it.

Your the one oppressing the public with your view of religion.

Please, bring your thoughts to the public square, please raise your signs, and please do preach your thoughts behind your pulpits, in your temples, mosques and churches. Please support your way of life and choice of thinking, and do teach that in the private setting.

But all walks of life is welcome in this country, all beings, and all life. and to merely say you think its not normal because your religion says so, and that a actual fact can’t be taught in school, is opposite of what your saying. Not supporting what you want.

Again, Support and Accept are two different things. Family, gay, is real, and in that sense normal. That gay family can not be bigoted against because they are gay, for that is the law of the land. Your religion states that its not to be supported by you. Don’t allow gay people into your life then. But you do have to live with them in this country.

Tim-

In your way of thinking, allowing female kids into school in pants, shorts or showing their hair arms and legs is teaching against a religion, to acknowledge that there are religions of different kinds is to teach against many religions, for it is a Christian thing to not accept any other God but their own, I am sure this is true for many religions. To allow someone to bring a BLT to school in their lunch is to teach against a religion because there are religions that don’t allow pork. It must not be normal for people then not to eat pork?

to allow people to go to school on a holy day of another ones religion must be teaching against their religion therefore teaching religion.

and so fort and so fort.

We all have a set of beliefs we support. But we all accept that there are others that do not support our beliefs.

Scott –

Gays already have the same civil rights as everyone else. The district is not treating gays as second class citizens. If the public school was going to teach the religion of the gay lobby, than it should also teach other religious positions on the subject. That would be equal rights for everyone. Clearly we don’t want public schools teaching religion – separation of church and state. Lets leave that to the churches. The gay lobby cannot bring their church into the public schools.

Just pick up that stuck needle in your mind, Tim.

Tim,

“Gays already have the same civil rights as everyone else.” Absolutely false – a BIG LIE!
Go here for the truth: http://www.project515.org
“Clearly we don’t want public schools teaching religion – separation of church and state.” Yet that is exactly what is taking place in the Anoka-Hennepin district.

Once again, Tim, your are deceitful. Up is and down is up in your world. Go get some help.

People like Laurie Thompson are what’s wrong with this world. It disgusts me when reilgious folks try to bring the big fella in the sky into everything. Why was she even allowed to speak? Security should have escorted her judgemental butt out the door and not someone who was sticking up for others. I have no respect for Laurie or her “conservative Christian” (i.e. outdated, backwards, selfish, and warped) view on this subject. A few people aren’t affended by the Christian faith hun, but all intelligent people are affended by your horrible outlook on the world. I have a son in middle school and to be perfectly honest- I would much rather he be in a school full of LGBT students than a school full of conservative Christians. I don’t believe in god, so luckily I can be accepting of everyone very easily. I do believe in Karma and one day this Laurie lady is going to get a big giant dose of it. Maybe cloudman will take away her voicebox so we won’t have to listen to her hate any longer…

THERE IS NO RELIGION OF THE GAY LOBBY.

there are gay Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and more! Your sect and choice of religion does not support people who are Gay. Plain and simple. I do not support that behavior of not supporting Gay people, but its your choice, and I don’t care about your choice of lifestyle. I will continue to support who I deem fit to support.

Again, accepting is not supporting.

This is a Civil matter, not a religious one. GAY people do not have the same rights as Straight people.

i give up trying to understand this topic that i whole heartily support the individual rights of people
i tried
there is no legitimate debate going on here
just bickering back and forth
every body come together,

thanks lane for the web sites
it will definitely help me understand
but i have already made up my mind , an agreement with you lane ,to be able to live your life the way you choose , with equal protection under the law ,
keep up the fight for equality

Tim,

You wrote,

“Gays already have the same civil rights as everyone else. The district is not treating gays as second class citizens.”

This is obviously false, since gays and lesbians can’t get legally married in MN. So, what explains your misstatement? My theories:

1) You too know that statement is false, but you say it anyway, somehow thinking that the lie is justified if it will win people to your side.

OR

2) At some point you heard the non sequitur “Gays have equal rights, they can marry someone of the opposite sex any time they want to”, and somehow found it convincing. The problem with that rejoinder is that it changes the assumption of the argument from: “A gay man can’t marry another gay man”, to “A gay man can marry a woman.” But this latter fact wasn’t the question in the first place. We’re then back where we started–a gay or lesbian can’t marry someone of the same sex in MN. And that’s not equality under the law.

So, Tim, which is it? Were you lying or making an easily avoidable mistake in reasoning?

AND THEN

You wrote,

“If the public school was going to teach the religion of the gay lobby…”

Oddly, you keep attempting–and in a most obvious and ridiculous way–to change the definition of religion to encompass things that no scholar or proficient user of English would ever accept. And it’s clear why you’re doing it.

First, you believe that you have very few if any other ways to make a convincing argument that GLBT equality can be excluded from schools, public policy and law.

Second, faced with this reality, you believe that if you can label something a religion, then it can be excluded from the public schools on the basis of church/state separation.

Again this begs the question of either your honesty or your ability to comprehend and reason.

Marie and Lane,

You guys are doing great, but forget that Tim has the True Definitions(TM) what things mean and only he knows what True Religion(TM) is. The 3 of us are merely the mission field to him not have been annointed/infested or whatever is when the “holy spirit/ghost” is part of you.

Tim doesn’t seem to think that we understand anything at all. Because in his world Secular Humanism and “Gay” are religions. And he is the one to educate us about it.

Tim, perhaps you overlooked my question?

@Scott, yes, thank you. I am trying to reason with someone that doesn’t want to reason, and only have his voice heard.

But as my argument continues, this is something I accept but do not support. I get scared that I am behaving like Tim because that is the argument I use on him, but I remind myself he will not accept anything he doesn’t support. So he actually physically doesn’t believe Gay people exist obviously. They are obviously some how manufactured up, and have been since the beginning of time, and are so in over 1500 species.

I have been conversations with my children.

You guys sure do squirm a lot when confronted with reasoning that you cannot deny or debunk.

You may be able to fool a lot of people that love the emotional high of this issue and refuse to look as the clear evidence that sexuality is a moral and deeply religious issue that has no place in the public schools. But I refuse to be fooled and my case remains unchallenged.

Teaching that homosexuality is a normal behavior and that it is not sinning against God is teaching religion in schools. This also teaches children that scripture and Christians are wrong to believe otherwise – which means that the school openly condemns the teachings of Christianity. This is not a neutral position.

These teachings puts children in danger because it tells them that the school and the parents endorse the behavior, which is very dangerous and results in a drop in life expectancy by 20 years because of the many medical risks. Teaching children that homosexuality is normal is not the solution. In San Fran, where they teach such things, the ratio of teenagers that say they are gay is 10 times that of any other city. If everyone was born that way, than why is the ratio of gay teenagers higher in places where the school endorse it? Do we want to increase the number of gay students in our schools and put more children at risk of depression and suicide? Teaching children that homosexuality is normal is not the solution.

Again I ask; why does anyone think adding religious rules to school policy will have any positive effect on student behavior? Where is the proof that this is a good solution? Where is the proof that bullying is even the problem? I think an investigation needs to be done by a third party to find the real source of the students that are depressed. Why are the school counselors not helping the students?

Because these questions are not being asked or answered, it is obvious to me that the gay lobby is using the death of these students to take advantage of the emotion of a community dealing with great loss into blaming and bullying the school board into something we will all regret.

The southern poverty law center and teaching tolerance have an informative video entitled “bullied” It is an eye opener for school districts that do not ensure the equality and safety of gay students- money talks and the school district had to take action after a lawsuit ruled in favor of a gay student who had been bullied.

Also I wish everyone who deems themselves Christians would remember Homosexuality is not mentioned in any way, shape or form of God’s top ten- Hate Mongering Christians are generally hiding their own deviancies and one did it again this week- an anti-homosexual fundamentalist pastor was caught ” tunings his flute” at the local playground while he watched the pre-school aged kids play. So just remember the ones who protest against something the most usually have something evil ( like pedophilia) hiding inside them-

Tim

you have been debunked a million times over.

in your thought frame acknowledging any family is teaching sexuality.

Saying someone is Gay is not saying that their sexuality is good or bad, its accepting that they are. And guess what they are real!

with your thought frame, the mear mention of any family or any gender is teaching sexuality.

and sexuality can not be taught! it is ingrain and biological.

You sir are wrong.

You can continue your argument on the basis that you don’t support Gay people, or Gay families, and that the mere mention of such people in any society is wrong. But you know that will get you no where therefore you make up your own definitions of what is and what is not a religion.

GAY IS NOT A RELIGION.

ACCEPTING GAY PEOPLE IS NOT TEACHING IT IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

You will not be forced to go to a church that teaches that Gay people are accepted.

You sir will have to live with the fact that you are bigoted, there is no way around justifying it, I accept that.

This is so hard to listen to. The reasoning is outrageous. Tim- the school in San Fran has more gay kids because gay kids want to go to school where they know they will not be bullied. And once again, this would not be encouraging or promoting homosexuality, it would simply be teaching not to bully others and that everyone is different from eachother and that is ok. People are saying the same things over and over and you are choosing not to listen, and then you think you’ve won when they give up trying. You need to take a step back and read this entire page of comments over again.

Tim,

You wrote,
“But I refuse to be fooled and my case remains unchallenged.”

You’re case has been challenged. Simply refusing to deal with objections to your arguments doesn’t constitute being “unchallenged”, it means you’re simply ignoring the challenges.

Please address the following challenges, or consider your position to be without merit:

1) The categories of ethics and religion have overlap, but the overlap is far from total. In other words, you don’t need religious assumptions to make moral arguments, and moral argument itself needn’t have any religious character whatsoever. If you assume, on the contrary, that all ethical argument is religious argument, then you have to include the following secular systems of ethics in the category of religious ethics:

-Secular humanist ethics
-Positive law
-The ethical assumptions of scientific research
-The guiding principles of the Rotary Club
-Corporate law

None of these ethical systems have any religious content. Yet, you appear to want to argue to that all moral views are religious views. This is false.

Moral stances may have _implications_ for the practice of faith, but it doesn’t logically follow that those moral stances must then themselves be religious in nature.

Tim, the task for you is this: If you want to demonstrate that all moral issues are religious issues, then you must show that any given moral issue contain:

a) overt religious content (e.g. “God commands that you accept homosexuality”)

Or

b) Is motivated almost entirely by religious assumptions (e.g. All or the vast majority of gay rights groups must consistently base their public policy positions on religious references, even if those references are not present in policy language.)

Good luck with that!

2) You wrote,

“This also teaches children that scripture and Christians are wrong to believe otherwise – which means that the school openly condemns the teachings of Christianity. This is not a neutral position.”

I and others have called you on this before, and yet you continue to repeat the same mistake again and again: You assume that “Christian” is simply that which is in agreement with your particular sectarian faith. Reality is otherwise. Some Christians support gay marriage, others are opposed. Some Christians believe embraces homosexuality, other Christians think Jesus condemns it. You’re simply lying if you try to pass off your particular brand of Christianity as the only Christianity that exists or true. Why do you do this?

So, there you have it. Unambiguous, direct challenges to your positions. I and others are waiting for your response. Ignoring the challenges and claiming victory is like not showing up for the Super Bowl, and then demanding trophies for winning.

I am now convinced that even God Himself can’t get through to Tim’s dense head!

Bravo Eric.

@poetgrrrl The fact that a you have spawn speaks volumes. The world, indeed, is beyond repair. Your ignorance is abysmal. You, however, are simply laughable.

@eric, and lane

sigh I agree.

I would like to add. That any Christian that is so set on having the only truth and to impose their only thought onto anyone, to think that you are can not be wrong, is to make you infallible. Which is probably the highest blasphemy a Christian can make.

I’d really like to see this “gay lobby” “evidence” you like to tout Tim.

While you’re looking for those juicy tidbits for the rest of us I’d like to point out to everyone else that these “Apologetics” books author that you keep pushing here are STRONGLY involved with “The Family” religious mafia, “The Family” research council Hate Group and even speaks at one of the MOST notorious Hate Groups founded by the twisted madman Scott Lively (pedophile employer) known as The Watchmen on the Walls. Let’s just be clear on who we are dealing with here with Tim. The emperor has no clothes.

Wow. I really feel sorry for you rubes in MN. Those poor kids committing suicide are proof that your society is sick. Those kids killed themselves to get away from homophbia and hate. Says alot for your community.

FWIW, Marie and others, it’s no use trying to win an argument or have the last word on comment threads such as these – especially given that some posters take advantage of the anonymity to say things that they wouldn’t normally say to their grandmothers.

I don’t always succeed in practicing what I am now preaching, but it does help to keep the other readers in mind when crafting that comment or response, to engage them in a meaningful way ‘lest I become as annoying as you know, those trolls. I also often decide if what I just typed is really “all that worthwhile,” and if not, I scrap it. I also remind myself to let “it” go when I feel I’ve said all that needs to be said; after all, most of the other readers out there can figure things out and reach their own conclusions. This approach allows me to participate in these conversations without fuming afterwards.

Now that I think about it, these anonymous forums are a safe place to practice our rhetorical skills, too. Hecklers come with the territory, I suppose. *sigh*

Marie –

You are wrong on so many points I don’t know where to begin.

1) There is no proof that sexuality cannot be taught, and lots of proof that it is a learned behavior.
2) There is no proof that sexuality is ingrain and biological, and lots of proof that it is not. Read the book, “The Born Gay Hoax”
3) Endorsing sexual behavior is teaching students that it is right, and morally acceptable by the entire community. This is teaching morality in the public schools, directly violating the separation of church and state.

You mam will have to live with the fact that you are a bigot; there is no other way around it.

What amazes me the most is that you people don’t care? You are reckless, double-mined, willing to sell your right arm to win your goal of forcing your religions position on everyone else – the same thing that you accuse Christians of doing – you are guilty of.

You don’t care if you run over the constitutional rights of others or even that our children are dying. You are willing look the other way and ignore all the evidence against you, just to force society to endorse your behavior as morally acceptable. And your focus on public schools is again shameful. This is an attack on the children who will suffer the most from your infringement on their freedoms by teaching them the up is down, you are selling them out for a life of disappointment and depression and a false identity.

There is a good reason why scripture says to run away from sexual immorality rather than embracing it and experiment with it. The reason is that all it takes is one experience to get a strangle hold on your soul, that is capable of a life of torment as your conscious continues to remind you of what you have done against God and your own body.

Sexuality is not something to encourage children to play with, whether homosexuality or heterosexuality. Is it one of the most powerful forces in human behavior and can change your identity, purpose and future.

If you want the schools to teach your religious doctine about sexuality, then you need to start a private school as every other religion does. We cannot have the public school system teaching the gay lobby religious doctine.

Tim
Ok after reading all of these comments i’m disgusted on how you think the gay lobby is bully the school board. I’m a homosexual myself and if you think for one minute that we all want special treatment then your evidently wrong. You might think your right and you have your own views. If you go and do your research and look back into record you will se how many people have commited suicide because they are gay. Everyday thousand of kids get bullyed because other kids have suspicion that they are gay. So before you go critizicing everyone and blowing up have a valid point and if now just be quiet.

Tim,

Let’s clear some more confusions up.

Teaching morality in the schools does not violate church/state separation. Teaching specific religious doctrines as truth does. Here are examples of morality that’s taught in schools and that doesn’t violate the separation clause:

-study hard
-think critically
-treat others with respect
-don’t cheat and be honest in your homework

What would violate the separation clause would be if a teacher were to say, “It’s my god’s will that you pray to Jesus.”

More to the point, teaching moral propositions like “Gay and lesbian students should not be harassed, bullied, mocked or denigrated” is NOT the same thing as propositions like “Your religion is incorrect and you must accept the validity of GLBT sexual orientation and behavior.”

Or, Tim, is it your religious belief that GLBT youth should be bullied and harassed?

Tim, you’re either lying by trying to conflate teaching respect and teaching advocacy, or, you’re making a simple logical mistake in not separating the two. Which is it?

Tim wrote,

“There is a good reason why scripture says to run away from sexual immorality rather than embracing it and experiment with it. The reason is that all it takes is one experience to get a strangle hold on your soul, that is capable of a life of torment as your conscious continues to remind you of what you have done against God and your own body.”

This is a wonderful example of the kind of dysfunctional and deviant attitude toward sexuality that our culture must put behind it. It’s the view of sex as a kind of dangerous trap, a temptation into personal ruin. This debased view sets the individual against herself, creating needless inner conflict, guilt and shame, over something that can and should be a source of joy, fun, and adventure, something that puts us at ease with ourselves and others, that fulfills and nurtures us.

Instead, the hyper-conservative and religious Tims of the world want to kill this part of the human experience. They’re crazily alarmed at the prospect of people enjoying pleasure, either with themselves, a partner or partners, seeing in it the downfall of the world. The naked human body shocks and unsettles them. Penises, vulvas, breasts, orgasms, desire, and the erotic imagination are for them sources of inner turmoil and conflict, guilt, shame, and a perverse and deviant combination of fascination and aversion.

In healthy, self-aware, psychologically high functioning people, sexuality can be experimental, playful, expressed with multiple partners, or just one, or none at all, with the same sex or the opposite–and it benefits them, it works for them, its healthy and happy and functional for them, it builds them up, it self-actualizes them, it gives color and meaning to life. In short, all kinds of consensual sexual expression is morally good.

Then there’s Tim: Don’t touch yourself! -Jesus will hate you for it. Repress sexual thoughts and my god will reward you with jelly beans and pats on the head when you get to heaven. He tries to pass his dysfunctional and crippling views of sexuality onto others, dressing his perverse anti-sexuality up in the dirty cloak of conservative morality, religion and godliness.

Will we stand up for healthy sexuality, or will we let religious zealots, themselves suffering from all sorts of dysfunctional sexual issues, set the agenda for us?

Now Tim is citing drivel from Porno Pet Labarbara’s AFTAH, also a hate group and Mass Resistance, another Hate Group by Scott “Kill The Gays” Lively and pedophile employer. Pulling out the big hate guns Tim. MFC should be next on the list for hate group status. Bab’s does think she’s in good company.

http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2008/03/video-as-oppose.html

Here are the facts about homosexuality

http://splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths

http://wthrockmorton.com/apa-resolution-on-religious-religion-based-andor-religion-derived-prejudice/

just want to make sure that we all know ,and keep in mind
there are millions of heterol sexual people out there ,who do not support tims views

or bachman for that matter
north of anoka mn is a radical christian right group of people , who have alot of influence
which so happens to be bachmans main stay of voters ,

so just don’t respond to their post

lets get back to the issue at hand ,there are a lot of kids hurting in this district
and how can we help them
you are not going to change tim or dennis views, so agree to disagree
and lets concentrate on the kids who are hurting and also stopping bullying

a school shouldn’t become the battle ground for an issue,
just a wasted year of education for the kids – but then maybe not

.

Wendy Leigh –

Now we all know that the research in the books that I have sited contains undeniable facts. But just because you don’t like the results does not diminish the truth. You can try and tie them to any group you want in a desperate attempt to discredit them. But the facts remain the fact.

Then, you sight the SPLC as your source of information? They are the largest hate group in the nation, hating everyone that does not accept their moral position on sexuality. They opening hate Christians, perhaps you do to.

If you don’t like hearing the truth from me, how about from a veteran counselor who has counseled hundreds of homosexuals;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyyt7uDht1Y&feature=player_embedded

@Ray

the country is set up to be able to agree to disagree, that is the point I keep making over and over again. To accept is not to support, but to impose view is to oppress.

Indoctrination of special interest groups such as the extreme religious right is not the majority or even close to it.

I am fine with the Tim’s and Dennis’s of the world

I am not ok with them forcing their views on my life.

LMAO! Chuck Colson is a Watergate felon. Your kind of people Tim.

http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2009/11/4918/

Not only that but using how straight men boinking each other in prison as a reflection of the gay community. No wonder you are so radically warped.

Let’s stop engaging Timmy. It’s not worth the energy. He doesn’t think like the rest of us — He is delusional. We’re just fueling his neuroses. Let him go…

It may be worth posting this article on the question of whether Jesus was gay or not:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jegay.htm

I’ll continue to confront “The Family” religious mafia every chance I get. Tim’s mafia credentials are showing at the highest levels of the delusional hate groups along with the grand PooBah’s Dobson and Robertson.

This is a must read http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

WL,
Dominionism is a scourge, no doubt. But engaging Timmy is too low level. I support the SPLC and their work, amongst others. I don’t want the Timmy’s of the world screaming in my ear. I’ve found engaging him encourages him.

See, here’s the thing. Throughout history, there have been religious groups whose beliefs simply would not work if the practitioner tried to live in the mainstream society. When those religious sects wound up in positions of power, where they could mandate things to their liking, the world inevitably endured a period of fire and sword as the zealots purified their environs. When the true believers are uninterested in or rightfully denied the opportunity to lord it quite literally over others, they wind up either withering away or withdrawing from society.

Look at the Amish. They have a lot of religiously-based beliefs and customs that don’t mesh with the mainstream, but they’ve found a way to preserve their lifestyle while neither imposing nor collapsing under the weight of modernity. That’s the way it should be; and I highly respect them for their integrity of belief.

So, take a lesson, Laurie Thompson. No one is out to get you and yours. There is no agenda. If you want to be a slack-jawed holy roller, you are welcome to do so on your own time and dime! Just don’t ask the rest of us to jump up beside you and shout Hallelujah!

@Wendy

Thanks for the websites. I skimmed through them and learned a few details that reaffirmed what I already believed from general knowledge.

Marie you and lane i totally agree with , your last post was what i was trying to say

i was in the military with people who were like dennis and at that time many many years ago you didnt openly support gay people , well i did , and i suffered extreme command retaliation till near suicide and severe mental disorders [depression ect.

i receive treatment for it now,
i am a person who looks a tthe quality of another person ,
you and lane seem like very nice people [ you both had said kind words to me which made me feel very good ]
i am so sad that i held my feelings for so long , not thoughts, fellings, there is a difference.

so now after 30 years i had mental breakdown , and i let a gay basher have it

i testified in what was considered the first major court case in military history on behalf of the plaintiff who was gay, who won in the u.s. appeals court ,
you have heard his name before, and we are still friends to this day .

so i guess my point is i no longer can articulate words from my brain to my mouth or key board . i try so hard my brain doesn’t click any more .

there must be at least a 1000 times i heard gay bashing and i held my words , and i am so sorry for that ,

the retaliation was so severe, from being locked up in military jail to being put on restriction for just a simple thing of having my hand in my coat pocket while off duty ,, followed by the fbi ,nis, secret service ect..ect.

i am a hetrol sexual married to a wonderful women and children

my anger runs so deep because of people like dennis , you will never know

perverted twisted minds of so called hetrol sexual people

if you put the time line together you will see what years they were
but because of confidential , i cant name names ,

there are several books that have been written and chapters in the books describe the incidents [remember or who is Dorthy ]
this was a sad time for many gay people , the start of a movement that lead to dadt
headed up by ?

and after 30 years i feel like i am coming out of the closet for standing up for people who were being persecuted, by the 100s in the military

i feel so bad i didn’t tell ,or i held this in for so long , it fried my mind

so when i write something, i may ramble or its hard to make sense of what i wrote ,
so please try and read it with sympathy ,as i stood up for the gay community,
while many of you were just baby,s and gay bashers were on every corner ,
lane i try to write the best i can

i need to add that i sat thrue 100s of political and social events where i constantly heard gay bashing from federal to state politicians ,lobbyist ect.
enough is enough
how so many people could hurt other people they don’t even know is beyond me
and i sat there with my mouth shut for fear of more retaliation
well i say bring it on

Dear delusional one,

This is not a Christian nation.

Signed, an American witch.

Ray, I am glad you are getting help. I hope that your issues of the heart are being worked on. It is one thing to understand what all happened, but far more difficult to resolve feelings associated with what happened. I wish we could meet, but alas, this forum is not a safe place to exchange contact information or to discuss those issues at length.

When time permits, I’ll track down this military case that you spoke of. I read a little about how the military treated the homosexuals over the years, and sometimes get overwhelmed at some of the unspeakable acts such as that occasional gay sailor “being lost at sea …”

Given this website’s comment policy, we are already way off-topic as this article is about that School Board meeting … Smiles.

poetgrrl, I am not sure what to make of Ann’s March 2, 2011 @ 9:27 pm post even as I somehow don’t care for what she said about you. Hello to your son, and tell him to stay out of trouble and study hard in school for me, will ya?

lane i am an exact example of , if these kids don’t get serious help ,
with all the media influx it will only make things worse , as in my case

i emailed my buddy and asked him if i could use his name ,

this is headed up the ladder of law
in which there will be many casualty’s along the way ,
there are many similarities

we will find some safe way to connect

@Ann Hopefully you are not a mother. Insulting someone’s child is probably one of the most hateful things on this thread (besides Laurie and Tom’s warped view of the world). He is not a “spawn”, he is an intelligent, funny, amazing child. I will continue teaching him to never bully, accept other’s no matter what their sexuality is and to stay far, far, awy from Christianity. I also noticed that you didn’t have anything to say about the original topic of this thread. I’m assuming this means you are either related to Laruie or are her posting under a different name (and got upset by my comment about her voicebox) or that you’re a conservative Christian and you’re upset that I called god cloudman. Either way, I’ve made a choice to keep people like you out of my life and it is full of nothing but happiness because of that choice. Blessed Be Ann, Karma will find it’s way to your doorstep as well.
@Lane Thanks, I was quite confused as to her attack on my son as well. That’s fine if she is upset because I don’t walk her religious path, but who does she think she is to go after a kid? She is just as bad as those who think that being gay is a choice, when it is something that is just natural and not offensive at all to those of us with the ability to think clearly. I have many friends and an uncle who are gay and they are some of the most thoughtful, friendly, and creative individuals I know. My uncle helped raise me and taught me more about art, culture, and acceptance than anyone else in my life. I’ve seen what the world has thrown at him and I can’t help but be on the complete opposite side of the fence when it comes to conservative Christian viewpoints.
@Katie Thank goodness I’m not the only one here!

I meant Tim in my comment above, not Tom :)

Eric –
If I get the chance, I’d love to respond to some of your comments regarding morality. I like the direction that your reasoning is leading you. I completely agree, morality is important to teach children, the question what source of morality and code of ethics should we use and is the public school system the place to teach it.

On the other hand your view of sexuality that results in your statement “In short, all kinds of consensual sexual expression is morally good.” is very disturbing because it does not address the dangers of sexuality including; mentally, emotionally or pregnancy or the high risks of contracting diseases like AIDs from multiple partners. Further, your definition of free willed sexuality has no way of determining the deference between incest, polygamy, pedophilia or homosexuality. Therefore they are all morally good and society should endorse them all. Endorsing this position in the public school system or in civil law would not lead to anything good. You are either a very sick person in need of counseling or you do not understand the implications of your own reasoning.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for enjoying sex, but do you know who has the most sexual fulfillment in life? It’s not homosexuals or lesbians or even heterosexual males who skewer the earth for young women to have sex with. Lifetime married couple have the most sex and the most enjoyable sex than any other group of people in the world. So if you want good sex and a lot of it; get marriage and stay married. So why aren’t we telling our children this, rather than some lie about their sexual freedom that leads to an early death? If you truly love your children, you would be wise to tell them the truth.

Posters like Tim and the woman Laurie Thompson mentioned in the article are struggling against changes in what is acceptable to society. Every generation goes through it and if I played the music on my iPod to someone 50 years ago, I’d probably be in jail for obscenity or something. Even today’s most conservative Christians would probably be guests of the Spanish Inquisition experiencing ‘enhanced interrogation’ if they were suddenly dropped a few hundred years in the past and all would be labeled heretics.

The fact remains that 50 years from now, gays will be getting married to their partners, raising families and living normal lives across the USA and most of world. Yes there will still be people that discriminate and ridicule them, just as there are still people who discriminate based on race, religion etc. But the majority won’t, because we are learning and growing into people who are morally superior to the people of 2000 years ago.

Tim-

Your statements on the health risks of multiple partners is correct, however if you are in a monogamous relationship it doesn’t make any difference whether your partner is the opposite sex or the same-sex.

Whether someone can remain monogamous though is the question. Odds are pretty good that at least a third of people will stray during their marriage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity

The quality of sex within a relationship though is pretty much relative though. Most women seldom, if ever orgasm. The male might think he’s having good sex and the female could be just going through the motions. Infidelity and divorce would both probably be much lower if couples learned how to have truly full-filling sex.

@Tim I’ve been avoiding commenting on your thoughts, but since you mentioned “marriage” here goes.
Lifetime married couples DO NOT have the best sex, trust me you have no clue. Nice ploy to use sex to get people to think you are right (Get married folks if you want hot sex! PS- god only supports hetreo marriage though…). I was married, it was pathetic on all levels. And I will be telling my son that truth!

Would you like to comment on the “sexual freedom” of all those male leaders of the church that consistently enjoy preying on children (usually boys)?? Hmmmmm… think it has anything to do with the horrible views on sexuality that are taught in church or the fact that they are not allowed to enjoy one of nature’s most natural instincts?

@Tim Do you let your wife put things in your bum-bum? It’s hot- give it a try and hey it’s with a girl, so you won’t burn for it according to you! (You can pretend it’s a guy, I won’t tell her.)

We all know that those that fight the most against gay rights are those that secretly wish they could give it a try, but are too afraid to admit it.

Poetgrrl -

Statistics do not lie. Try reading the book; “The Case for Marriage: Why Married People are Happier, Healthier, and Better off Financially”

Your son, the most precious gift of your life came about from your marriage. The characteristics of your spouse are forever a part of your son. So when you say you love your son, you are saying you loved your marriage. Wise up.

When you say, ““sexual freedom” of all those male leaders of the church that consistently enjoy preying on children” – this appears to be what Eric is advocating, as I have explained.

Morality defines the deference between right and wrong. But morality cannot to relative to public opinion or culture or anything that is constantly changing, otherwise we would never have true morality. There must be a source of morality that exists for all people, cultures and generations, so that we could all be safe from the cultural shifts of a relative morality that can be redefined by an angry mob or a powerful church. Morality is not something that you or I make up as we go. It already exists. All we need to do is discover it and put it into practice. Luckily for us, God gave us the true definition of morality, in which the success of each nation can be found in equal measure of how much they put that source into their laws.

The ‘progress’ of the world over the last several decades has not been a return to the one true morality that is foundational to civilization, but a movement away from morality, pushing the world closer to complete immoral meltdown. The utopian world of immorality that the far-left is working so hard to get to is going to bring hell on earth.

Take Cuba or Russia for example. A few months ago Cuba admitted that it has no economic foundation for survive, because it has no foundation for morality, and therefore is on the verse of collapse. Russia is the starvation capital of the modern world, because it has rejected God as much as possible and has become the atheism capital of the world. These examples highlight the truth of scripture, “The fear of the LORD (which results in following his commands) adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short.” (Proverbs 10:27). “See, I set before you today life and prosperity or death and destruction. For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws.” (Deuteronomy 30:15)

The true of the matter is that we will never be able to control the behavior of children in schools by adding bullying policies, even if we added 1000 policies about bullying. This is not a policy issue, but a moral issue. And the reason this issue is growing is because less children are being taught right from wrong. The only solution that will be successful is to teach children the truth about what is right and wrong. A policy does not offer children any reason why they should not bully someone and until someone provides the true reason, the bullying will never stop.

Scripture has the answer. “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as Christ forgave you.” (Ephesians 4:32). This verse tells us to be kind to each other and gives the reason why – because Christ forgave us. This reasoning gives the justification for the why students should not bully each other. Without this, we have nothing to offer children and our policies are just an empty set of rules for them to rebel against.

Hoo boy! Let’s cool it with this sexy talk. This is not Porno Pete’s AFTAH* website …

*certified by SPLC as a hate group

Tim,

You’ve refused to respond to a couple of my previous posts.

Nevertheless, I’ll respond to your latest post directed toward me.

You wrote,

“Further, your definition of free willed sexuality has no way of determining the deference between incest, polygamy, pedophilia or homosexuality. ”

Reread my post. I mentioned “consensual” in it, which to me and the vast majority of people rules out pedophilia.

I have no moral issue whatsoever with polygamy as long as the participants in such arrangements enter into such arrangements without an undue burden of false consciousness of the kind likely to obtain in ultra-traditionalist Mormon polygamous marriages.

Polyamory on the other hand is a positive alternative for a growing number of people. It is getting increasing media attention, and is developing its own practices and values of relational wisdom. I support it as an apparently viable relationship alternative to marriage for a growing number of people.

I consider homosexuality to be as normal as heterosexuality, deserving of equal treatment under the law.

Incest is harder to make generalizations about. There are cases that seem to me to be perfectly legitimate, others not so. I recall reading of an elderly couple, for example (a brother and sister) who decided they loved each other the most and that no other relationship would work for them. It seems perverse for the law to be seeking out and punishing such people.

All of this is immensely complicated by this country’s schizophrenic attitude towards sexuality. Simplifying a lot: one part of our culture only recognizes heterosexual sex in the context of two-person marriage. It shuns open and honest discourse about many things having to do with the body, sexuality, and the possibility of other types of relationships. The other part of our culture prioritizes freedom (and consensuality, of course) in its choice of sexual practice and partner selection.

One of the complications here is that at the same time people are liberating themselves from the dysfunctional repression of past eras (more on those past times in a second), we still don’t have a national consensus about sexual and relationship morality, which means that the kind of appropriate education and public discourse that would support these relatively new freedoms, is somewhat lacking. It means that conservative parents aren’t often educating their children about sex, instead apparently preferring that internet porn sites do that for them. It means that all sorts of people for whom past sexual repression simply doesn’t work for their lives, are stumbling in the dark to a certain extent. New levels of responsibility, knowledge and information, self-awareness and confidence are all needed to sexually navigate one’s life.

I think the present moment in terms of its sexual ethics is a vast, vast improvement over anything that has come before. Sexual culture in the 1950s–idealized by many social and religious conservatives today still–was built on a tower of lies, deliberate misinformation, profound ignorance, hypocrisy, sadism, sexual violence and abuse that often got swept under the rug, sexism and denigration of women’s sexuality, much marital and relationship unhappiness and dishonesty, quasi-arranged marriages, back alley abortions, lack of birth control, crippling guilt and shame, and more. Why did our culture make a strong shift away from this in the 60s and 70s and ongoing until today? It’s obvious why. Those previous eras were repressive toxic cesspools of dysfunction for a great many people. And we’re far from being out of their grip.

This is by no means to suggest that the present order is perfect, but it’s a vast improvement over the past in almost all ways.

A true story that I learned from someone who was there.

In the 1960s in San Francisco some gay men would hold dances where they would dress in drag. It was common for the police to raid these dances and club and beat the men who were there. Some men had their testicles kicked into their bodies by the police. When these men would then seek medical treatment at a local Methodist (if I recall) hospital, they would be told that people like them weren’t treated there. What good Christians. Perhaps this was the Golden Age to Dennis. Eventually civil rights attorneys showed up in drag at a dance, and after the next raid the city got its ass handed to it in court. The raids stopped.

This story and thousands like it has generated a revolt among growing numbers of people over the past 40 years against the culture of “traditional values”, the guiding social and religious authority under which all sorts of untold abuse and nastiness happened with regularity. We’re obviously still dealing with it in the case of the Anoka-Hennepin school district, which tolerates violence and abuse against homosexual students.

The time to bury “traditional values” in history’s trash heap is now.

Dear @Tim-

My son was not the most precious gift of my life come(ing) about from my marriage. I didn’t have a child with that loser, thank you very much. So thankfully when I say I love my son with all my heart, I can also say I hated marriage with all my heart as well. I will not be reading any lame book about marriage either. While married, my ex sat on the couch and ate junk food while I worked 2 jobs, we filed bankrupcy because he didn’t have any work ethic. Married people are better off financially huh? Yeah right, I have more money divorced than I ever did married. Statistics are crap.

@Poetgrrl Glad to see I’m not the only one here! Sometimes you just have to speak, even when your voice shakes.

I’m sick of letting Tim pass off his hate as the voice of religion in these comments. They’re the voice of a very small man, venting his insecurities.

Many elements of the sexual culture in the 1950s and its evolution since then as succintly summarized by Eric could be seen in the AMC TV series “Mad Men.” Many of the scenes brought up memories that I didn’t realize I had along with the disbelief that “it” actually happened! UFF DA!

I admit here that sometimes my hands shake in anger when I try to respond in an adult manner to some of the more irresponsible posts here and elsewhere. But it is so nice to know that I am not alone. Thank you, Eric, Poetgrrl, Katie B., Marie, Ray and others!

Here is what Tim’s brand of fundamentalist-extremism sells as credible, and is actually intentionally distorted and manipulated Franken-science that we heard snippets of at the school board meeting. A blog for real Christians and those who care for the actual truth, not the home-spun Hate For Pay blend of crapola that MFC, FRC, FOF, AFA and other “Family” mafia groups use to demean LGBTI people

http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2011/03/statistics-that-lie-the-dutch-gay-marriage-study/

Good post, Wendy.

The lies of the religious right never stop. I just happened to be reading an article a moment ago and came across this quote:

“I recall a meeting of the Family Research Council’s “Values Voter Summit” a few years ago where a staff member with the American Family Association explained how Adolf Hitler invented the separation of church and state.”

The more you look, and you don’t have to look far, the more you find.

I am so glad I don’t live in Minnesota. From the comments here it is liberal hell comparable to San Fransisco.

“I’ve read not too long ago the power of public schools as an equalizing force in American society in that public schools offer children of all kinds and backgrounds to mingle and get to know each other developing that common area that allows all of us to be Americans. This is what makes us unique compared to most other countries”

Don’t believe everything you read. Please name me the western 1st world country that does not have public school where “…children of all kinds of backgrounds…mingle and get to know each other….”. Public education is the cornerstone of any socialist country. Its one of the points of order for the communists, to get the children away from their parents as early as possible and instill in them the values of the state vs the values of the parents. We’re not unique, we’re just another country in a long line descending into you socialist/atheist hell.

Let me understand your logic. Because a child is brought up in a home that teaches the LGTG lifestyle is immoral you have to force them to discuss it at school in order to teach them its not? Why are you values more important than their parent’s? Why should gay issues be a topic of import but Christian values are not? If you want to keep morals out of school, keep morals out of school. Christians wont put up a nativity and the school shouldn’t force kids to listen to how its ok to be gay.

Liberal facism at its finest….

@Patriot Sam –

You are correct, they are trying to take control of the children and completely undermine the parental role and responsibility to teach children.

But it gets worse than that. The source of influence as can be seen in these comments is none other than demonic. For example, Katie B. stated that she is a witch. We have a gathering of demonic spirits that are behind the leadership that is fooling the parents into bullying the school board into teaching students that immoral is moral, that evil is good, undermining the entire community’s religious beliefs, leading the children to an early death and eliminating the parental influence of children.

Because of the demonic activity in the area, it is very likely that they are responsible for the deaths of the students that have committed suicide. And they should be exposed to the parents and the school board for their involvement so that they can be investigated and the true source of these students’ deaths can be discovered. I’m not even sure the owners of this blog (Paul and Andy), who claim to be atheists, realize how they are being used by this demonic activity.

It’s time to expose and scatter the demons.

It has become clear to me that there is a gathering of demonic involvement in the student suicide activity at Anoka-Hennepin.

- Katie B. has stated that she is a witch – a practitioner of black magic and the occult.
- Lane has uncontrollable fits of vulgar rage – which is often an indication of demon position.
- Eric has rejected all moral restraint of sexuality – a clear indication of satanic worship in order to defile the body in which scriptures states is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in us that have received Christ (1 Corinthians 6:19).
- Wendy Leigh has referenced many websites that are teaching anti-Christ doctrine – a clear indicator that she is under the influence of the occult.

Whether you realize it or not, you are all under the influence of demonic activity.

If you don’t believe me, try having a conversation with the demons in you and on your back and ask them to leave you in the name of Jesus Christ. But be careful, because they will most likely act out in vulgarity and violence and perhaps try to kill you – because you don’t have authority over them.

The good news is that whether you realize there influence in your life or not, does not change my authority over them.

As a believer in Jesus Christ, I am a new creation blameless and pure by the blood of the lamb, with the power of the Holy Spirit that dwells in me and I have the authority over all demonic spirits.

The reason I have this authority is because Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18-20) and Jesus gave that authority to his believers “In my name shall they cast out devils” (Mark 17:17-18) and he said “I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy” (Luke 10:19). Jesus also said “whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” The word heaven at the end of this statement is referring to a region on earth. So whatever we bind on earth will be bound in the atmosphere of our city and state.

Therefore, in the name and authority of JESUS, that Son of the Living God, who has given all believes his authority over his enemies in heaven and on earth I command the demons that are influencing you to leave you and never to return.

If you are a Christian reading this, please read these words out loud so they will resonate in the atmosphere.

annnnndddd cut!

Scene two of this will be offered up soon.

Ok, I need popcorn for anymore of this!

Thanks for the chuckles, boys.

Oh wow,
Lets go ice skating this weekend.

@Patriot Sam, MN is hardly as liberal as it looks from this news site. After all we’ve elected Michelle Bachman twice so MN is just a moribund in conservative values as the worst of them. We just smile and agree with you and when you turn away stab you in the back. Good old passive aggressive values.

@Tim, I tried asking the demons how it is going and they didn’t say anything at all, just like god never says anything. Your comments on demons were really funny though. Thanks.

When I was a kid and still believed in stuff like god and the devil I never could understand why satan was considered evil. All he ever seemed to do was goad humanity to better itself and god seemed to want everyone to spend all their time praising him.

That last babble has cut all wants for me to respond, at least for now to anything Tim says.

I never want to put down anyone’s Faith. Its all very personal, and I even don’t want to put down Tim’s. But after that rant, we should all now be educated, even the worst of us liberals :), to not trying to bait.

Ok, I can’t help myself,

Tim…. Please get a dictionary and look at the word Cult. And then please put that up to the rant, and your life. Please seek help. Keep the faith, pray hard, and go to church. i am all for it, but please get help for your obvious mental issues. The Biblical hermeneutics are dangerous. I do hope you get help. That someone actually knows who you really are.

Tim, I’m not angry with you. I’m just not going to let you pretend like your viewpoint and your religion are the only ones that matter.

Tim, like all people who are so rigid in defending a nonsensical ideology, is only trying to cover up his own gay tendencies. Think George Rekers, Eddie Long, Troy King, Ted Haggard, Glen Murphy Jr., Jim West, Mark Foley, and – remember him – Larry Craig. Attack to distract is the method. I’m real suspicious of Tim for this, just sayin’….

As an adult who is gay who has quite a few years of dealing with homophobia and organized religion under his belt, it was easy for me to dismiss Tim’s nonsense on demonic activity. However, that is NOT necessarily the case for young, growing LGBTI children who are struggling to understand and accept their sexual orientations and gender identities while bombarded by the homophobia and other prejudices around them – sometimes with deadly consequences. My “fits of vulgar rage” prompt me to speak up – and slam people like Tim hard in public forums such as the one here.

Please don’t feed the Tim troll, because he’s a tool of the Minnisota Family Council (affiliated with the SPLC-designated “Focus on the Family” hate group).

Timmy’s job/”mission” is to spread the propaganda far and wide.

MFC and FotF are well-funded, and care about raising money through their “fear the queer” campaigns far more than they give an iota of a damn about “Christian rights” or “protecting the children.”

P.S. To verify my contention, click on “Tim’s” name (which is linked) – and enjoy the ride straight to the MFC home page.

LOL@ Tim. From the words of high priestess Cindy Lauper ” I can see your true colors shining through.”

Demons and the oogy- boogy http://www.truthwinsout.org/pressreleases/2011/03/15116/

@ Reed, and “The Family” research council xtian mafia and fundy cult.

“As a believer in Jesus Christ, I am a new creation blameless and pure by the blood of the lamb, with the power of the Holy Spirit that dwells in me and I have the authority over all demonic spirits. ”

I just can’t say that and keep a straight face. It’s so loony.

Tim,

I’ve suspected from early on that you were committed to a brand of superstitious and religious irrationalism of this nature, but was waiting for just a comment like this–something about the Antichrist, demonic possession, and the sinister machinations of Satan himself. Now I (we) know.

And, I should point out one of your latest lies, this time about me. You wrote:

“Eric has rejected all moral restraint of sexuality – a clear indication of satanic worship in order to defile the body in which scriptures states is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in us that have received Christ (1 Corinthians 6:19).”

Nothing in my posts suggests a rejection of “all moral restraint” with regard to sexuality. My ethical views on sexuality are, for sure, different than yours, but it’s a non sequitur to say that therefore my views reflect the loss of any guiding moral view. You’re utterly deluded if you think that you’re the only source of correct sexual morality on this list.

Satanic worship? I highly, highly doubt there is any entity named Satan who is the embodiment of all evil. Certainly there’s absolutely no objective evidence for this being. Satan is a childish religious fiction. Satan is a comic book super villain kept alive by unthinking religious zanies, an abject remnant of our collective pre-modern, pre-scientific past that still lives and breathes among us.

Then again, if Satan wears tight leather pants, says “You can call me Lucy” in a husky voice, reads Proust and Nietzsche, delights in tormenting conservative Republicans, and carries a riding crop around, she might indeed be worthy of worship. In which case I’d say, Hail Satan!

My wife saw this posting of mine and just said, “If this Lucy showed up, I’d like to make out with her.”

Eric,

I’m glad to see that no one was hurt and the demons are gone for now. But the damage has been done and many of you have believed their lies. And to make matters worse, scripture tells us that men are evil without demonic influent – so evil that we are capable of unthinkable human tragedy and death – and without a reasonable explanation of why we did it.

“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” – Jeremiah 17:9

By all historical records and teachings, Jesus Christ is the greatest teacher and influencer in the world – and he cast out demons just as I have. Your inability to hear or see what is going on in the heavens and on earth gives you a major disadvantage in life. I suggest reading, “Life After Death: The Evidence” and the bible.

Regarding my statement about your morality, you have already tried to explain your logic and concluded that your morality is self professed, which is the same thing as saying that it is unfounded and unsupported by anything or anyone, therefore my summary if very fitting. But it you believe I have miss-represented your morality, I’d like to hear your summary.

Morality is not something that we can create, because we did not create ourselves. We are not capable of determining right from wrong, apart from God telling us the difference.

Hey Tim, my aunt is an IHM nun. She has been for the past 35 years. She also has her PhD in religious studies and has read all of your postings. Her response when I asked her what she thought: “He is not only unbalanced, but a very poor representation of a true Christian, as are those who continue to judge, oppress, and deny human rights.” Those, Tim, are the words of a true Christian. Plain and simple. She stated she would pray for you, which is good. You need all the help you can get.

Nelson, my aunt has been a nun for 40 years and she completely agrees with me. But so what? It does not matter if the entire world agrees with you, the scripture remains and stands forever in which God is the judge.

Furthermore, it is not the promotion of Christianity that denies human rights, but it is Christianity that is the only foundation for human rights – which is why non-Christian nations have nothing to support human rights. The gay-lobby is not for more human rights, but much, much less as I continue to explain many times on this blog.

Just look at the many rights that have been lost in nations like the UK and Canada over the last several years.

Ill-informed as always, Tim. Lots of non-Christian nations have human rights protections written into their constitutions, including (off the top of my head) Thailand, South Korea, Japan, Turkey and India. A bit of research on your part and you’ll find more.

Lots of non-Christian countries ratified the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, too. True, some of the signatories aren’t gems of human rights today, but it’s absurd to suggest that only Christian nations value human rights.

That said, let’s try to keep comments focused on the content of this post.

Tim,

You wrote,

“Regarding my statement about your morality, you have already tried to explain your logic and concluded that your morality is self professed, which is the same thing as saying that it is unfounded and unsupported by anything or anyone, therefore my summary if very fitting. But it you believe I have miss-represented your morality, I’d like to hear your summary.”

I never laid out my approach to morality. I merely made a cursory sketch of moral positions having to do with sexuality, along with a couple of basic considerations, by no means exhaustive, of why I think my stated positions had some validity.

Giving a reasonably complete account of my overall ethical theory is outside the scope of this discussion. So too for my views on sexual morality. But very briefly I’d say that is has its basis in: human experience (my own and others), rational thought, scientific understanding, compassion.

But in your above statement you make the claim that from what you can tell of my moral views, they are “self professed, which is the same thing as saying that it is unfounded and unsupported by anything or anyone…”

How could you possible know this? You don’t, of course.

The only thing interesting about your charge has nothing to do with its substance, for it has none. What’s interesting is what it reveals about you–someone with an absurdly inflated view of the superiority of his own view who is willing to invent, lie and exaggerate to prop up his delusion.

That you would even make such a claim “…unfounded…” etc., is an apparent indication that you don’t want to know what my actual views are. It’s much more self-reinforcing to simply assume you know it all before you have any rational basis for doing so. You’ve already made up your mind that your narrow, fundamentalist, anti-science, cultish Christian faith is the only source of truth and ethics.

The “gay lobby” are gay citizens who are seeking their rights to pursue liberty and the pursuit of happiness too and get out from under the oppression of people like YOU Tim who cloak their bigotry with their own selfish and distorted interpretation of the bible, just like Anoka/Hennepin school district is doing by following The Alliance Defense Fund’s, the legal wing of “The Family” research council mafia and hate-group, model of enrichment ONLY for heterosexual students. Even though they claim it, it will not hold legal muster. My tax dollars are not paying for an unjust educational enrichment of some over others! Certainly not for the benefit of religious-fundy bigots! My tax dollars are ALSO not to be wasted on the immanent legal battle this policy will indeed create.

A must read about “The Family” religious cult

http://www.politicususa.com/en/radical-dominionists

And Tim, I do not believe you “don’t know anything” about it.

http://godsownparty.com/blog/7-must-read-books-dominionism-in-america/

Wendy,

Thank you for the links!

Eric

A sociopath is a person who, through accident of birth or damage to the brain, cannot feel empathy for another person. Most people, in fact, have a fairly well calibrated moral sense absent negative inputs from authority (the infamous Milgram experiment was about interfering with people’s consciences through input from authority figures). Christianity is in fact extremely harmful to developing moral sense because it isolates morality from a true sense of empathy for others and turns it into an arbitrary set of rules not related to empathy but to obedience to authority. The same type of obedience that in the Milgram experiment led people to (they believed) give electric shocks that would inflict permanent damage to test subjects.

The result? Tim.

anti-social personality disorder

Eric,

Your circular logic leads you nowhere.

You refusal to give a summary of your moral rational proves my statement correct and that your suggestion that I was lying, reveals the falsehood of your own statement and its irrational bases. Your inability to provide rational for your morality is again proof that scripture is correction and that there is no other foundation to build your life upon, other than the one that has been laid.

“10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
“18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! – 1 Corinthians 3:10-20

The reason that I can know, with complete certainty, that your reasoning is unfounded, is because scripture tells me what you are thinking and that there is no other wisdom to be found in all the world over. The wisest man has already lived and died, and the history of the world is already recorded, which includes everything that man’s thinking will result in.

You may not like this, because you want to believe that man will someday become more than he is today, someday becoming his own god as his knowledge expands. But that utopian dream is a fantasy based on the myth that this is possible. Scripture tells me that the only thing that man’s wisdom will lead him to is to realize that God is still on the throne and he must be dethroned before man could become his own god, in which this leads man to hate God and to make war with Him – as you have already joined the war cry.

But apart from God, there is no hope and no solid foundation to build your life upon. The more you read the scriptures the more you will realize this.

Regarding the rest of you what are desperate to define me as ‘mentally unstable’ so that you can discard the truth that I have made know to you, scripture again reveals that it is you that are ‘mentally unstable’ and double-minded in all your ways. (1 James 1:8) My life is built on Jesus Christ and he is the truth, therefore it is him that you need to discredit and dethrone – which is impossible.

Shrugs I gree that an anti bullying policy must be generated for all children in school.

I am not a fan of 0 tolerance because that leads to unreasonable punishments.

If I as an adult am being attacked I have every right to defend myself as the child on the you tube video that came out. 0 tolorence does not permit that.

The instigator of violence must be nutralized to effectively stem that behavior. To tout that adults are effective at this and then not be so is a strong proponnent of mass shootings at schools.

You cannot tell me that a child picked on not just once but time and again by the same group or person throughout a school year is not noticed by the staff.

It is part of growing up to be picked on here and there. Even as a stronger person in your age group someone older gives you a shove or a tap on the noggin the point being its a one time deal and easily forgotten. It is those who pick on one individual incessantly in and out of school functions until they break that are the real problem and should be crimanal.

It should be listed as a hate crime at the very least.

As always, I am thankful that we live in a nation that treats religious texts neither as law books nor as mental health diagnosis manuals…

@Tim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Thanks for the links, Wendy. I wasn’t familiar with the term “Dominionism” until a couple of months ago, and it occurs to me that it’s rarely identified or discussed in the MSM. I just did searches on both Google and Bing. Google has at least 50% more pages. When you click on “News”, Google has 3 pages, Bing only shows 2 articles TOTAL, and nothing that really talks about how dangerous our American Taliban really is. Seems odd.

Media is one of the 7 mountains of power. They own it.

Tim,

You wrote,

“Your inability to provide rational for your morality is again proof that scripture is correction and that there is no other foundation to build your life upon, other than the one that has been laid.”

You failed to argue against my provision of a basis for my ethical outlook. Instead of addressing it on its merits, you merely sweep it aside, preferring instead your absolutist dogmatism. I assume you realize that merely saying something is true doesn’t make it so.

Putting this aside for the time being, let’s assume for the sake of argument that belief in a god is the only basis for morality. This then begs the question of how that works. Which god are we talking about? Which interpretation of this deity is to be privileged? How are scriptures to be interpreted? What happens with scriptures contradict evidence from science of lived experience?

I know a number of god believers who assert that god is the basis for their belief in GLBT equality under the law. If you then reply by quoting scripture, this doesn’t solve anything, since you’re assuming what has yet to be proved. Why is your interpretation superior? You need another premise in your argument to demonstrate that, and you haven’t given it.

Tim, despite all the Bible banging, the delusional religious certainties, the evidence-free sky-is-falling warnings that GLBT equality will threaten the family, the nation, or whatever, gay marriage WILL happen in the US, and is probably coming sooner than you think.

And there’s nothing you or your Christian Taliban friends can do about it.

Just imagine how many people pick up a BIBLE, before the newspaper or a book. If more people read the BIBLE AND READ IT RIGHT, UNDERSTANDIND WILL FALL IN PLACE. THOSE WORDS ARE FROM OUR CREATOR. WHO GIVES US THE TIME OF THE DAY TO GIVE HIS THANKS FOR BEING HERE ON EARTH. If you do or do not read the BIBLE PLEASE read LEVITICUS CHAPTER 18 VERSES 1-30. I can related to the woman who was kicked out of the school board meeting on what she was saying.

ST. PAUL, Minn. — A state survey finds that there’s more than half a chance a student in Minnesota schools has been bullied or has bullied someone else.

The analysis by the Departments of Health and Education uses data from a survey of more than 130,000 students. It found that 13 percent of respondents reported being bullied regularly — once a week or more.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42955125

Madeline, your bible says nothing about women sleeping with women as with men, so you’re cool with Lesbians, right? I mean God is all knowing, so he left that out for a reason, eh?

I say we stop giving her attention because that is what is yearning for. Just pray for her.