Pawlenty, Bachmann unsure if gays are as harmful as second-hand smoke

Wow, this is messed up on so many levels. One thing that jumped out at me was this quote by Vander Plaats…

‘Don’t smoke, because that’s a risky health style,’ the same can be true too of the homosexual lifestyle. That’s why I think we need to speak the truth once in a while.”

He is advocating telling the “truth once in a while”!!!! What the hell is wrong with this guy! He goes on record saying that he lies!! These nuts have gotta go.

After you burry a few of your friends from AIDS perhaps you will realize that homosexuality is much more dangerous than smoking. Smoking reduces life expectancy by 7 years, while homosexuality reduces life expectancy by 20 years. That makes homosexuality three times the health risk of a lifetime of smoking.

This is also why the gay-lobby supports Obamacare, because it socializes the massive medical expenses that result from homosexuality. Obamacare allows homosexuals to socialize the massive medical burden of their lifestyle onto the rest of society, depleting the wealth of the nation and driving the nation further into recession.

@John I
That was what came to my mind as well. Wrong on so many levels I had to start laughing.

The level of ignorance falling from that guys mouth is like a child passing along something he heard from another child in 1st grade so it must be true.

Tim (or is it Tom?)

Your attempts at logic leave me speechless.

@ Tim, please state the stat’s and studies, medical journals you are quoting from. Please tell us your credentials for being able to analyze the information from said studies.

Even T-Paw couldn’t buy this sell.

Un protected sex with multiple partners can lead to unsafe health issues. All protected sex between safe acting adults is healthy.

Sex is not moral. Sex is a physical, biological function, that does have psychological connections.

Only Religious beliefs connect sex to God.

Not all people have that belief. If you do than please live in the lifestyle of your choice, for (and this is directed at Tim again) You made the lifestyle choice of being in your religion. Being Gay is biological.

I don’t support your lifestyle choice Tim, but I will accept it.

OK, let’s look at some numbers here:

In 2010, the Fed Gov’t spent 509 billion on Medicare. At the same time, it spent 26 billion on HIV/AIDs research.

In 2007, the Fed reports that 159,000 people died of Lung Cancer. At the same time, there were 11, 295 HIV/Aids related deaths.

You can parse the numbers all you want, but the truth of the matter is that the Fed spends FAR less on HIV/AIDs than it does in Medicare and far fewer people die from HIV/AIDs than Lung Cancer, per year.

Asking Tim for careful reasoning and evidence is asking for a miracle. It just doesn’t happen.

Well according to Tim’s (il)logic, then guns should be banned because they reduce life expectancy by up to 70 years!

Poor Tim. He can’t help it. He was born again with a silver foot in his mouth. God, I miss Ann Richards.

Praise Jebus, God hates thoughtful rhetoric, Amen.

Second hand smoke is dangerous only when exhaled by gays. Or maybe the smoke is gay. I forget. Though I’m sure that’s as intelligent as anything conservatives have had to say on the subject.

Even the headline is moronic.

It would be nice to shown facts, and credentials once, that is outside that he is given the power through his God.

Tim maybe missed the fact that those “studies” that came up with those life expectancy numbers for homosexuals have been completely and utterly debunked. Of course if he DIDN’T miss that fact and posted those numbers anyway he would be lying, which religious types refer to as a, oh what’s the word…oh yea, sin.

Here’s my favorite part of the story,

Bob Vander Plaats, initially denied involvement in the seminars, but changed his mind in recent weeks stating, “If we’re teaching the kids,… That’s why I think we need to speak the truth once in a while.”

Slippery saint aren’t you Bob? What’s the next seminar, How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”

Praise Jebus, God hates independently verifiable evidence, Amen.

u know what’s as dangerous, or even more so, than smoking? f-ing stupidity.

and by all accounts, it has now reached pandemic proportions. everywhere u look u can see stark representations of this disease (whatever that means). it’s effects can affect sight, hearing, and speech just to name a few. symptoms often are associated with moronism, idiotism, and stultiloquence. unfortunately, tho it is not necessarily genetic, it has been shown to be easily passed from parent to child.

msg to all the stupidos:
so next time you try to push this crap on me, please understand that, i just think you’re stupid and no amount of talking or jumping up and down will make me see differently. it would probably only reinforce my belief that you are suffering from this disease and are unclean. so please…don’t breathe near me

Eric –

Your willingness to overlook mountains of evidence, all rational reasoning, critical thinking, scientific data and historical documentation, is truly astounding.

You truly are a man of great faith. I am amazed at how much faith you have in so little. You have more faith than most people I know. Imaging the impact you could have if your faith was in the truth.

@ Tim
Your comments are transparently designed to be inflammatory, offensive and made up. Many innocent victims have experience health risks at the hands of those who promote ignorance and discrimination. We’ve seen this tactic used for decades and it does cause real harm. That’s your lifestyle. That’s on your soul. Meanwhile, GLBT citizens around the world continue to make monumental progress towards equality in the face of ugly bigotry and bullying. Don’t persecute others – it saves lives.

Tim,
You cannot be serious. First of all anyone can contract AIDS. A person can contract AIDS from needles as well as bodily fluids. A heterosexual person can get it as well. You should probably look up this disease before spewing lies from your close-minded mouth.
While I do not agree with Obamacare, I also feel that we are not being paying for medical expenses due to someone being gay. Why do you care so much about another person’s lifestyle? Can’t you just live your life and not worry about what another person is doing. Are you afraid you will catch “gay”? America is so backwards it sickens me that it is 2011 and people think like this.

The only thing dangerous about being gay is homophobia, external and internal. And internalized homophobia wouldn’t exist at all if it weren’t for external homophobes talking up their hate speech.

*sighs* More of Timmy-the-ghoul, pushing his hate speech over the bodies of innocent people.

I am so glad that finally brought this up, because I once met a homosexual about fifty years ago and have never been the same, sane person since. Wow! What a relief to know that my condition is not my own fault, that I was exposed to a deadly homo virus.

These two POTUS wannabes lack the courage of their convictions — gee, is it okay to admit that they’re homophobes? Will the voting public think less of them for acknowledging their social intolerance toward gays?

So they’ll check their political weathervanes and get back to us.

This train of logic makes me sick.

People are so quick to blame homosexuals for the HIV/AIDs problem because they were the first population to get hit in a large number. But no one considers the idea why they were hit so hard. They were hit the hardest first because there is a higher rate of promiscuity in the homosexual demographic. Which of course, the more people you sleep around with (usually casual sex), the higher your chances are that you’ll contract an STD (even using protection is not always a safe bet). That holds as true in heterosexual populations as it goes homosexual.

Now the question becomes…why does the homosexual population have a higher rate of promiscuity?

I don’t know, this is all my own opinion, but…could it be because there is such a strong movement AGAINST homosexuals having stable monogamous relationships while heterosexuals have a huge push for it. Because there are so many hating groups against homosexuals, a lot of them choose to do it incognito or don’t even bother to try to have a long term relationship- what’s the point of looking for love when you could risk losing your family, friends, job, life and then not even have your own government recognize you? It’s easier (and saner) in those circumstances to simply go have a one night stand with someone anonymous when you have sexual urges than go back to your life like nothing happened. And then eventually as time went on, the homosexual culture became centered around that – because it was a shared experienced for so many.

Unfortunately because of that, AIDs/HIV and other STDs could more easily spread than it could among heterosexuals- though they’re getting hit pretty hard too.

So really…to me it seems like homosexuality isn’t so much as risky as secondhand smoke as INTOLERANCE being as harmful as second hand smoke. Because I strongly question how much the AIDs epidemic would have gotten if there hadn’t been such a strong stigma against being gay or gay marriage.

Bachmann has an excuse: she is an ignoramous & quite likely believes the BS coming out of her mouth – but there is absolutely NO excuse for Pawlenty, since we know he is an intelligent (albeit heartless) person – which makes him EVIL incarnate.

Second-hand smoke effects the health of innocent people who are exposed to the smoke, not by choice. So the smoker knowingly spreads carcinongenic toxins to the world, by choice, knowing that their behavior can at worst KILL the person exposed to second-hand smoke. The smoker directly effects the health of others, by choice.

A gay person is not by nature toxic, nor carcinogenic, nor able to spread toxins through the air. A gay person can not KILL another person. Anybody can spread HIV/AIDS, and yes the majority of people effected by this disease are gay. Being gay isn’t the issue; irresponsible sex is.

I’ve got news for you; standing next to a gay person with or without HIV/AIDS is not harmful to your health. Standing next to a smoker is dangerous for your health.
How dare anyone compare the two. Shame on you.

In fact Mr. Palenty and Ms. Bachemann, it is your selfish, naive, self-rightous attitude about homosexuality that makes innocent teens KILL themselves because they can not accept who they are. Note, I did not say who they choose to be, but who they are.

Again, shame on you.

Tim, watching you pander to the bigots and homophobes is revealing. Is this the person you were all along? If so, it explains why you did what you did to Minnesota. If not, then you are a pathetic little man with oversize ambitions. You think you deserve to walk in the shoes of Washington, Lincoln, and Roosevelt? Please, Tim, stop the delusion.

Roman –

My comments are not ‘designed to be inflammatory’ in anyway. They are designed to reveal the truth in every way. I have personally saved many lives by telling them the truth about the health dangers of homosexuality. The gay-lobby is the one that is hiding the truth and leading more people into this killer lifestyle.

AIDS Rate 50 Times Higher in Homosexual Men: Center for Disease Control
http://www.lifesitenews.com/?/news/aids-rate-50-times-higher-in-homosexual-men-center-for-disease-control

“Gay” Sex Kills
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2008/apr/08042101

They are the ones that are openly vilifying anyone that points out the facts. They are boldly discriminating against anyone that reveals the evidence. They are willingly leading people to the grave in order to cover up their actions. They are the ones that are attacking our nations’ freedoms, by working to remove individual rights and liberties. Just look at how they recently forced Apple computers to block iphone apps for ex-gay support groups. These support groups save thousands of people each year from suicide and other dangerous health hazards of gay-sex. Blocking these apps will result is many more deaths. but they don’t care. The gay-lobby is killing our nation. They are merciful in all their ways, evil beyond compare.

Perhaps you have never seen a testimony of someone saved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQVFafhjkE4&feature=related

The wolves are in your camp.

@Tim,

Wow, satan has blinded your eyes and you are devouring his lies. What you rail against as the results of a gay life style is nothing more than the results of unsafe sexual activities. Strait people get aids as well. Christians that have been blinded by satan, such as you, have vilainized those that wish to educate our youth on healthy lifestyles. Before you say it, yes, homosexuality can be a healthy lifestyle. Christians in America need to realize that the way they have been teaching their youth has led directly to unhealthy sexual lives. Just look at the leaders of the many different factions of christianity here in America. We have Catholic priests raping little boys with the church condoning their behavior and fundamental christians leaders such as Jimmy Swaggert engaging with prostitutes and anti-gay preachers such as George Alan Rekers and Ted Haggard engaging with gay prostitutes.

As I have said before and will say many more times, Tim, you are blinded by satan!

@Kelly –
Regarding your statement, “Second-hand smoke effects the health of innocent people who are exposed to the smoke, not by choice.”

Not true, first because each year thousands willingly choose to no longer be gay and second because promoting and endorsing the gay lifestyle result in an increase in experimenting with gay-sex in order to try and determine if they are gay, in which young children who are flush with hormones and have not had much time to think about their feelings can be easily miss lead into exposing themselves to the much higher health risks.

So you see, supporting the gay-lobby which continues to push schools to endorse and promote their lifestyle, is killing people. Neither gay people nor smokers are toxic. But the gay-lobby is toxic because it is killing people.

Mr. Palenty and Ms. Bachemann are not killing homosexual teens who take their own lives, your claim is preposterous. It is a lack of love that children get from their parents, teachers, friends, neighbors, relatives, etc. that cause them to turn to the lure of same-sex relationships, in which comes with it great mental anguish, and going public after experimenting only compounds the anguish that push teens to take their own lives.

The problem is much deeper then you realize. The problem is because of a lack of love in society, which will only increase if the nation turns farther from God. The solution is to turn the nation back to the foundation of love, found in Jesus Christ. Both Mr. Palenty and Ms. Bachemann understand that this is the true solution to our nations’ many problems.

MYTH # 4
Homosexuals don’t live nearly as long as heterosexuals.

THE ARGUMENT
Anti-gay organizations want to promote heterosexuality as the healthier “choice.” Furthermore, the purportedly shorter life spans and poorer physical and mental health of homosexuals are often offered as reasons why gays and lesbians shouldn’t be allowed to adopt or foster children.

THE FACTS
This falsehood can be traced directly to the discredited research of Paul Cameron and his Family Research Institute, specifically a 1994 paper he co-wrote entitled, “The Lifespan of Homosexuals.” Using obituaries collected from gay newspapers, he and his two co-authors concluded that gay men died, on average, at 43, compared to an average life expectancy at the time of around 73 for all U.S. men. On the basis of the same obituaries, Cameron also claimed that gay men are 18 times more likely to die in car accidents than heterosexuals, 22 times more likely to die of heart attacks than whites, and 11 times more likely than blacks to die of the same cause. He also concluded that lesbians are 487 times more likely to die of murder, suicide, or accidents than straight women.

Remarkably, these claims have become staples of the anti-gay right and have frequently made their way into far more mainstream venues. For example, William Bennett, education secretary under President Reagan, used Cameron’s statistics in a 1997 interview he gave to ABC News’ “This Week.”

However, like virtually all of his “research,” Cameron’s methodology is egregiously flawed — most obviously because the sample he selected (the data from the obits) was not remotely statistically representative of the homosexual population as a whole. Even Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, has called Cameron’s methods “just ridiculous.”

MYTH # 10
Gay people can choose to leave homosexuality.

THE ARGUMENT
If people are not born gay, as anti-gay activists claim, then it should be possible for individuals to abandon homosexuality. This view is buttressed among religiously motivated anti-gay activists by the idea that homosexual practice is a sin and humans have the free will needed to reject sinful urges.

A number of “ex-gay” religious ministries have sprung up in recent years with the aim of teaching homosexuals to become heterosexuals, and these have become prime purveyors of the claim that gays and lesbians, with the aid of mental therapy and Christian teachings, can “come out of homosexuality.” Exodus International, the largest of these ministries, plainly states, “You don’t have to be gay!” Another, the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, describes itself as “a professional, scientific organization that offers hope to those who struggle with unwanted homosexuality.”

THE FACTS
“Reparative” or sexual reorientation therapy — the pseudo-scientific foundation of the ex-gay movement — has been rejected by all the established and reputable American medical, psychological, psychiatric, and professional counseling organizations. In 2009, for instance, the American Psychological Association adopted a resolution, accompanied by a 138-page report, that repudiated ex-gay therapy. The report concluded that compelling evidence suggested that cases of individuals going from gay to straight were “rare” and that “many individuals continued to experience same-sex sexual attractions” after reparative therapy. The APA resolution added that “there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation” and asked “mental health professionals to avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts by promoting or promising change in sexual orientation.” The resolution also affirmed that same-sex sexual and romantic feelings are normal.

Some of the most striking, if anecdotal, evidence of the ineffectiveness of sexual reorientation therapy has been the numerous failures of some of its most ardent advocates. For example, the founder of Exodus International, Michael Bussee, left the organization in 1979 with a fellow male ex-gay counselor because the two had fallen in love. Alan Chambers, current president of Exodus, said in 2007 that with years of therapy, he’s mostly conquered his attraction to men, but then admitted, “By no means would we ever say that change can be sudden or complete.”

As for the CDC data, one problem with these data is the degree to which gay people and condom use are both vilified in the United States. In particular, the African-American community (in which HIV infections are considerably more prevalent than the general population), with its culture of “down-low” same-sex relationships and downplaying or denying same-sex attraction and relationships is considerably dysfunctional in this regard.

The problem is not, as Tim would have you believe, with queer people – the problem is with a dysfunctional American culture that treats queer identities as a disease and promotes a harsh and hateful religious doctrine as the cure.

@John I
The sin within Christian leadership is nothing new, Jesus warned us many times that we would have false teachers, more so as we approach his return. Fallen teachers are not something to put your faith in and reject the truth because of. They are evidence that the scriptures are true.

The leaders that have done these things have caused many people to become confused about the authenticity of the truth. They will have to account for the millions they have misled. Highlighting these stories in an effort to suggest that the truth does not exist or to further obscure people from seeking and finding the truth only makes you an accomplice.

Now that the scriptures are readily available in the information age, obscurity is Satan’s choice of trickery. The truth may continue to become harder to find, just as true believers become harder to find, but truth does exist and it’s worth all the gold in the world to find it. (Matthew 13:44)

@Tim,

Wow you are blind.

You are putting words in my mouth. Thank you but I can and will speak for myself. Your vanity in what you believe to be knowledge is truly disgusting.

You wrote this
” Fallen teachers are not something to put your faith in and reject the truth because of. They are evidence that the scriptures are true.”

I have not put faith in any teacher but Jesus. Your vanity has led you to believe that you know me and my history.

Also the fact that mankind will fail does not make the scriptures true. This is the same as saying the earth looks flat so it is flat. These are dangerous and damaging ascertations. Statements like this show the devils damage to your soul. Anti-christians like you make it harder for true christians to deliver Jesus’ love.

@John I
Tell me John, how do you believe in Jesus but not the scriptures?

Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; – Galatians 6:8
The fear of the LORD adds length to life, but the years of the wicked are cut short. – Proverbs 10:27

The promises of God are active and alive today, as the evidence reveals. The statistics testify to the truth of the scriptures, making it clear as day that God’s Word is true. Wise up and read the book.

@Tim,

Why do you feel the need to fill my mouth and my ears with your lies?? Why do you distort what I say? Has satan’s lies and distortions become your reality? Do you truly hate the teachings of Jesus so much that you will do anything to undermine those that will lead in his glory? From what I can see in your posts, your soul has become one with the demon that possess you and you are in love with this demon.

I rebuke you, satan’s minion!! I rebuke you in Jesus’ name!! Release Tim’s soul so he may become as God intended him to be!!!!

@John I: I think Tim is getting bored. His copy and pasting is getting more and more blatantly obvious, and his ranting is becoming a pastiche of itself.

@katie

I am sure that it is exhausting lying as much as Tim does.

@John I
Like I though, the truth cannot be found in you.

@John I

It seems bizarre to me that Tim does not seem to have ANY concept of being responsible for one’s own actions other than “will I be punished for this by God?”

@Tim,

Nor can the truth be found in you but we can all find truth in the love of Jesus. I see you have resorted to name calling and slander.

@Katie,

I am sure that Tim is nothing more than a “troll troll”. There are few people in this world lower than that. It is difficult to care about people like this, but, just as a 2 year old may get on your last nerves we all must realize that lashing out with negative actions will do not good to us or the recipient.

@john & Katie

Thank you Katie for always printing real facts especially in respects to posts like Tim. I understand how angry we all get at lies, and pure trolling of people and bigots that want to post just to provoke. But it helps to hear facts, over fictions and having posts like yours Katies brings us all back to reality.

John I, I get that you want to express that not all Christians are Tim’s and that its his sick view of the scriptures and his religion that makes the postings so ugly.

The good thing with postings like Tim’s is that he is exposed. I think that someone that lies and uses such bigotry in his writings can not hide it in real life. So that is hopeful, we can see his scarlet letter he has placed on himself a mile away and can save our children from the likes of him.

Indoctrination is a powerful abuse. Remember that the religious extreme’s are not about faith, but about power. To my opinion it has no difference than rape. Rape is not about sex its about power. Indoctrination is a form of rape.

@John & Katie B & Marie
You have been lied to; the love of Christ is not a license to sin. Consider reading Romans 6

“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? … 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. .. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” – Romans 6:1-24

“No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. “- 1 John 3:6

If you truly Love Jesus Christ, he will lead you out of sin. It is possible, billions have done it from every nation in the world, but it is difficult. The cost may seem too high, but the reward is greater and this is the key. The higher the cost or the more of your life you have to give up – friends, family, job, etc. – the harder the choice becomes. A good example was when Jesus told the rich man that spend most of his life gaining riches that he would have to give all his money away in order to enter the kingdom of God and he was perplexed because the cost was so great. The money was not important, but the investment of his life was. Jesus was asking him to give his life to Christ. In a similar statement Jesus said, “whoever loses his life for my sake will find it”. – Matthew 10:39

God rewards those that seek him, and his rewards are far greater than anything the world has to offer. – Hebrews 11:6

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” – Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified June 7, 1807 by the United States Senate and signed into law by President John Adams June 10, same year.

However, in 2011, it seems that people have forgotten the idea that the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; that the United States is a free and secular nation and not beholden to any religious potentate or prelate, foreign or domestic.

Tim’s religious views are as utterly irrelevant to the statute law of a free, secular nation as are my own.

Tim you have been lied to, your bible was written hundreds of years after the death of Christ, your Christianity is not the only sect of Christianity, millions and millions of Christians disagree with your interpretation of the bible.

Please get a real education. You have been indoctrinated.

Besides, I do not subscribe to the bible period or Christ Tim, therefore your bible does not hold truth or law over me at all. You are anti American and un constitutional to press your bible onto me as of law.

Will I have to wear a T-shirt that says “Caution, having sex with me could be hazardous to your health”?

Can someone get AIDS from from breathing the same air as gay people do?

Will the government impose a special tax on gay people who have sex, to pay for treating AIDS? If so, will the Republicans then use that money to balance the budget, rather than what it was intended for?

If I’m at a bar, will I have to go outside if I want to have gay sex?

@Jerry

I am pretty sure that commenting on the same thread as a gay person will get some gay on you as well! I wonder if J&J has a gay disinfectant spray? Well, time to get the hazmat suits out.

@Jerry/John I
You guys are killing me.

Guys, Tim is obviously one of these personas created by the HBGary software http://boingboing.net/2011/02/18/hbgarys-high-volume.html

They come in several flavors, Tim is obviously “Anti-Gay” with a sprinkle of “religious nutcase”.

@ Tim

Osama Bin Laden was found after we allowed Gays to be open and wanted in the services, i see the direct coloration.

The South is ridden with people that believe the same as you Tim, I obviously see the punishment by God’s hand on the Gay bigotry of the south.