Sen. Dibble on gay marriage vote: ‘The GOP made a grave, grave mistake’

The author, Warren Limmer, and the Senators that voted to put this amendment on the ballot voted publicly. And their identities have been duly noted by a concerned and motivated citizenry committed to protecting our Constitution and liberty from religious zealotry. A minority’s civil rights should not be put to a vote by the majority.

As the fundamentalists diminish the separation of church and state, so will their resources and infrastructure be eroded by whatever means available. I hope religious extremists and their churches understand this and proceed at their own peril. Everyone’s liberty is at stake.

Praise Jebus, God hates America, Amen.

Sounds like, looks like, smells like a prejudice on Mr. Limmer’s part given those quotes. Perhaps there is a subtext to this amendment bill as I suggested before his Senate Judiciary Committee. If he is seen buying rope there should probably be a three day cooling off period invoked.
Ah, but wait, he’s a small ‘c’ christian isn’t he. He could hardly deny his god’s creation by bias could he?

Agreed with the above poster. Ultra-conservatives are repeatedly attempting to destroy American lives. The political knock-down-drag-out fights, as well as lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit, *will* continue for as long as it takes to stop this satanic minority from acting like a new breed of terrorist in America.

Senator Limmer,

I find your history of voting against American’s civil rights a disgrace. Your response to the reporters “moral consideration” was at best cowardly. You sir are nothing more than a serpent. Disgusting.

And yet he keeps getting re-elected. Why change a working strategy that keeps him in office? It also says a lot about the voters in his district that keep him in office. Maple Grove is definitely a city I would not recommend moving to.

“Do you teach a person to be black?”

What a great quote. No, of course you don’t. They’re born with certain genes, that make them no better or worse than someone born with other genes, or a combination. You can teach a person to behave in a manner stereotyped as “black”, or teach a person to behave in a manner stereotyped as “white”. Exposure to various cultures, differences in education, media, etc will all have an impact on behavior. But that’s just behavior; the person will still have the same genes. The genes will produce physical differences. Nurture will produce the behavioral ones. But no amount of nurture will change the color of their skin, or yours, or mine. It will only affect whether we’re comfortable in it.

Now let’s flip this around a little….
“Do you teach a person to be gay?” No, of course you don’t. They’re born with certain genes, that make them no better or worse than someone born with other genes, or a combination. You can teach a person to behave in a manner stereotyped as “gay”, or teach a person to behave in a manner stereotyped as “straight”. Exposure to various cultures, differences in education, media, etc will all have an impact on behavior. But that’s just behavior; the person will still have the same genes. The genes will produce physical differences. Nurture will produce the behavioral ones. But no amount of nurture will change their sexual orientation, or yours, or mine. It will only affect whether we’re comfortable in it.

By Limmer’s logic interracial marriage should have never been allowed because at the time of it’s passage into law the majority of Americans were against it as well. What a coward to hide behind the bigotry of the supposed majority.

In the upcoming months there will be many ads both pro and anti this amendment. If Senator Limmer truly believes that this amendment should be decided by the citizens of Minnesota then he should take steps to ensure that the ads are sponsored and paid for by citizens of Minnesota. He should ensure that there is no outside intervention on this vote.

The amendment was passed everyone. Let’s just all go out and vote on it. The people will decide, it’s a done deal.

In receiving the report of the passage of a Republican anti–gay marriage amendment in the Minnesota Senate on Wednesday, Casey Jones of wittmannnews.com issued a statement of concern that Minnesotans who are all individuals may have just lost the basic securities of civil protections. wittmannnews.com editorial writer Casey Jones said: “where one minority is singled out to be banned from having equal civil liberties… it will open the doors for each citizen despite their sexual orientation or other differing quality, to be categorized and restricted by government groups (which are lobbied by powerful and rich special interests groups) from participating equally in activities. Such a group has the power to label anyone as being different because of their religion, sexual identity, racial classification or other grouping the more financially powerful biased organization desires to fashion a group of citizens as…today or anytime in the future. Such moves accomplish the opposite of what true America stands for!”

[...] amendment just passed the state Senate, but it seems that most of those who voted for it are too ashamed to speak up and defend themselves: Reaction to the passage of a Republican anti–gay marriage amendment in the Minnesota Senate on [...]

I wish that the reporters had asked him whether the felt it would be appropriate for the people to vote whether Jews or Muslims were allowed to be married, or whether divorced people were allowed to remarry, or whether childless couples should have their marriages annulled by the government if they don’t have kids after a reasonable amount of time, or if the only marriages it is appropriate for the voters to have a say in is those of gay couples.

Is it up to the people to decide which religions are valid? Can the people decide not to allow interracial or mixed religion marriages?

And after decades of paying attention to this debate, I have yet to hear a single way in which any straight marriage is even affected, much less damaged, but allowing other people to have a civil marriage. If there is no harm to straight marriage, then what besides bias is the basis for not allowing gay marriages?

The greatest threat to democracy is the tyranny of special interest groups in their lobbying efforts against the majority of voters.
If the homosexuals of this world had their way, the world would consist of test tube babies and the orgasms would be simply for pleasure for anyone at any time with anyone including their favorite pet… with the blessing of the world…

*rolling eyes here*

Is retrntired aiming to be listed by the SPLC as a hate group based on spreading lies and disinformation about “the homosexuals of this world”?

Meh.

And here I thought that poster was being sarcastic. My bad.

To retrntired, retired retard, retarded & tired or whatever your name is…

Yes, it is our best interest to avoid special interest groups and leave the lobbying efforts to the majority. So lets keep the Theocracy, Bigots and general GOP social special interest groups out of social policies.
Oh wait, check the polls. The majority of American’s are for gay marriage and the social trends are consistently moving away from your old-world views.
So, I guess you’re gonna need a new argument at your next KKK meeting, pal.

Limmer said, “Do you teach a person to be black?”

That almost tops New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan who, when asked on 60 Minutes about his opposition to same-sex marriage said:

“I love my mother, but I don’t want to marry her.”

I’d love to tell Archbishop Dolan, “Your Grace, if you’re still living with your mother and sharing a bed, please, do the right thing and make an honest woman out of her.”

In a tiny forgotten footnote of history, Andrew Pugno, author of California’s Proposition 8, lost his Assembly seat in 2010, two years after Prop 8 was up for a vote. Who might have easily been reelected in a conservative district, he was targeted for his concerted effort and has not officially stepped foot in the California Capitol again.

Interesting to note Limmer is up for reelection in 2014, two years after Minnesota’s “Prop 8″ is scheduled to be up for a vote. Don’t think for a second I forgot that.

retrntired,

You wrote,

“If the homosexuals of this world had their way, the world would consist of test tube babies and the orgasms would be simply for pleasure for anyone at any time with anyone including their favorite pet… with the blessing of the world…”

You’re living in a fantasy world.

Civil rights for me, but not for thee. What a great way to govern.

One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.” –Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1943

It’s not us in the LGBT community who are causing the majority of change (although we are the catalyst)– it’s our straight allies– our friends and family, and all those who have transcended their prejudice, who know we are right and speak out on our behalf now. Those are the people Newt and others like him are up against. And it’s a fight they have no hope of winning. We have family and friends on our side.

Romer v. Evans established that animus against people belonging to a particular category was not a valid reason for passing a public policy. Lawrence v. Texas added that moral disapproval is a form of animus, not a valid government interest.

This “Constitutional” Amendment violates the United States Constitution and attempts to contravene the clear findings in Romer and Lawrence, as does every other marriage discrimination amendment and law in the country.

Joe: Limmer and all Senators and in fact the whole legislature is up for reelection in 2012.

The Republicans in the Senate stuck together on this one. At least one House Republican isn’t going along with it. But right now the party of Lincoln is looking pretty stupid.

Limmer looks like Montgomery Burns from the “Simpsons” ..he looks like the typical evil GOP ….wipe he is. …..and as others have posted – someone should have asked/and said…1000′s upon 1000′s of Gay cpls ARE Already MARRIED, YES – ((MARRIED))) in the few states that have them…..sooo, HOW has ALL of THOSE Marriages affected yours…? They haven’t…….. heck, I married my partner of 12yrs last yr in Vermont….we took Our $2000 vacation money and spent it THERE, in an Affirming state…..and will be more then happy to spend Our money there again…….are all LGBT people rich..hell Nooooo, do alot of more disposable income,if they have no kids,….sure……together we make 160k a yr…and We’ll make sure We SPEND OUR MOney in Places that Deserve it.

retrntired
Comment posted May 12, 2011 @ 8:10 pm
The greatest threat to democracy is the tyranny of special interest groups in their lobbying efforts against the majority of voters.
If the homosexuals of this world had their way, the world would consist of test tube babies and the orgasms would be simply for pleasure for anyone at any time with anyone including their favorite pet… with the blessing of the world…

…ummmmm, you Have Issues / Problems and should seek therapy ASAP..don’t walk..Runnnnn!

[...] More on the story Minnesota Independent: News. Politics. Media. [...]

retrntired, Bravo for speaking up! Unlike your GOP representatives, you are not afraid to express your shameful, skanky, bigoted views in public. If only Limmer had your courage!!!

Btw, is every religious, ethnic, gender, age-based and sexual-preference-based minority or group seeking to live freely in this country a tyrannical “special interest group”? I’m betting you are a member of one or more of those groups. Are you ashamed by that?

Also, I’d hate to be your pet.

So now only christian fundies are entitled to orgasms??? Thats new. Why is it that these christo-fascists are all OBSESSED with sex with animals? YISH! These people are twisted and deeply troubled I swear. Project much!?!?

If Warren Limmer didn’t want 9-year-old children learning about sodomy, he probably shouldn’t be enshrining anti-gay legislation in the constitution.

For one, the matter will be hotly debated between now and November, prompting children from 5-55 to ask, “What’s a gay marriage?”

For another, children will now have to learn about the gay marriage ban when studying the constitution. From here, teachers will have to decide what to teach children about why such a defense of marriage was necessary. Of course, they will explain that the Republican Party doesn’t think it’s right for gays to marry. Which will be hard for the ‘pubs to live down. In fact, a Republican party that can outrun this history will look nothing like the Republican party of today.

Collier White…….Well said……Bravo! I like your last line especially..How True! How True….and sad ,actually.

I for one, think it is OK for the government to create a second class of citizens. In doing so, I expect the government to act accordingly and extend second class tax rates to me. After all, as a gay person who is part of the second class being created by the insecure zealots of hate, I should not have to pay taxes that support discriminatory laws or their misbegotten offspring.

Oh wait, isn’t this how the U.S. was founded? People fleeing intolerant governments (religious persecution). Now the persecuted have become the persecutors. Nice. Love those Christian values! Love thy neighbor! Unless they are gay! No taxation without representation! The Christians are coming! The Christians are coming!

Limmer and his ilk have forgotten some of the most inspiring words ever written:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

How many more gays does God have to create before these turkeys will wake up and realize we are part of the fabric of humanity too?

How does making me a second class citizen help make me more equal? It is time to create REAL separation of church and state and end any law that discriminates in any way by the government. Government should be neutral. Churches can play hate games, but the government I (we all) pay for should not.

Or, maybe I’ll just give up on this entire mess and move to Canada. God save the Queen(s)!

There is no STOPPING the LGBT MOVEMENT! EQUILITY IS THE MOVEMENT – for two (2) consenting adults without adding anything more to it……..!!!!!!!!!!

EQULITY DOSEN’T COME EASY, YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FOR IT! History has showen us.

If we let the MAJORITY RULE! Lets bring back: PURITANS, SLAVERY, PROHIBIT WOMEN from VOTTIG, PROHIBIT DIVORCE, NO RIGHTS for BLACKS, just a few to mention.

BIBLICAL;

KILL ALL WHO COMMIT ADULTERY, INCLUDING THOSE WHO MARRY WEDDOWS (brothers only) AND DIVORCE WOMEN.

KILL ALL DAUTHERS and SONS THAT DO NOT OBEY THY PARENTS, just a few to mention.

For those of you who like to use the BIBLE as your argument. The Bible is a very human book, written from very human points of view, and that these points of view often differ from one another. The biblical authors were human too! They had LIKES, DISLIKES, OPINIONS, VIEWS, PREJUDICES, BIASES, PERSPECTIVES, and so on, like the rest of us; and all these things affected how they saw the world.

Kiev art museum contains a curious icon from St. Catherine’s Monastery on Mt. Sinai in Israel. It shows two robed Christian saints. Between them is a traditional Roman ‘pronubus’ (a best man), overseeing a wedding. The pronubus is Christ. The married couple are both men.

Is the icon suggesting that a gay “wedding” is being sanctified by Christ himself? The idea seems shocking. But the full answer comes from other early Christian sources about the two men featured in the icon, St. Sergius and St. Bacchus,2 two Roman soldiers who were Christian martyrs. These two officers in the Roman army incurred the anger of Emperor Maximian when they were exposed as ‘secret Christians’ by refusing to enter a pagan temple. Both were sent to Syria circa 303 CE where Bacchus is thought to have died while being flogged. Sergius survived torture but was later beheaded. Legend says that Bacchus appeared to the dying Sergius as an angel, telling him to be brave because they would soon be reunited in heaven.

While the pairing of saints, particularly in the early Christian church, was not unusual, the association of these two men was regarded as particularly intimate. Severus, the Patriarch of Antioch (512 – 518 CE) explained that, “we should not separate in speech they [Sergius and Bacchus] who were joined in life”. This is not a case of simple “adelphopoiia.” In the definitive 10th century account of their lives, St. Sergius is openly celebrated as the “sweet companion and lover” of St. Bacchus. Sergius and Bacchus’s close relationship has led many modern scholars to believe they were lovers. But the most compelling evidence for this view is that the oldest text of their martyrology, written in New Testament Greek describes them as “erastai,” or “lovers”. In other words, they were a male homosexual couple. Their orientation and relationship was not only acknowledged, but it was fully accepted and celebrated by the early Christian church, which was far more tolerant than it is today.

Contrary to myth, Christianity’s concept of marriage has not been set in stone since the days of Christ, but has constantly evolved as a concept and ritual.

Prof. John Boswell3, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the “Office of Same-Sex Union” (10th and 11th century), and the “Order for Uniting Two Men” (11th and 12th century).

These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.

Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.

Same-sex unions in pre-modern Europe list in great detail some same gender ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek 13th century rite, “Order for Solemn Same-Sex Union”, invoked St. Serge and St. Bacchus, and called on God to “vouchsafe unto these, Thy servants [N and N], the grace to love one another and to abide without hate and not be the cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God, and all Thy saints”. The ceremony concludes: “And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be concluded”.

Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic “Office of the Same Sex Union”, uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.

The Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes such ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books, “Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae” (Paris, 1667).

While homosexuality was technically illegal from late Roman times, homophobic writings didn’t appear in Western Europe until the late 14th century. Even then, church-consecrated same sex unions continued to take place.

At St. John Lateran in Rome (traditionally the Pope’s parish church) in 1578, as many as thirteen same-gender couples were joined during a high Mass and with the cooperation of the Vatican clergy, “taking communion together, using the same nuptial Scripture, after which they slept and ate together” according to a contemporary report. Another woman to woman union is recorded in Dalmatia in the 18th century.

Prof. Boswell’s academic study is so well researched and documented that it poses fundamental questions for both modern church leaders and heterosexual Christians about their own modern attitudes towards homosexuality.

For the Church to ignore the evidence in its own archives would be cowardly and deceptive. The evidence convincingly shows that what the modern church claims has always been its unchanging attitude towards homosexuality is, in fact, nothing of the sort.

It proves that for the last two millennia, in parish churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom, from Ireland to Istanbul and even in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a [Christian] god-given love and commitment to another person, a love that could be celebrated, honored and blessed, through the Eucharist in the name of, and in the presence of, Jesus Christ.

“… in the evening the youth came to him [Jesus], wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.” —The Secret Gospel of Mark, The Other Bible, Willis Barnstone, Editor, Harper & Row, San Francisco, 1984, pp. 339-342.

http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/whensamesexmarriagewasachristianrite.html

Proud to have Sen. Dibble representing me.

Despite the obvious ad hominen nature of the following remark I feel compelled to note the eerie resemblance between Sen. Limmer and the aliens in Mars Attacks. Ack Ack!

Praise Jebus, God hates homosapiens, Amen.

Drat, make that ad “hominem”.

Praise Jebus, God hates spellcheck, Amen.

Mustn’t forget Megamind, either! But he has more heart than Mr. Limmer …