Family Council asks for ‘respectful debate,’ says gays are pedophiles who engage in bestiality

Mr. Prichard, there can be no debate when the civil rights of a minority are at risk thus your hateful organization deserves no respect. But thank you for the “Legislative Handbook.” You do understand your argument drives away more undecided than it persuades?

Now, about religious leaders and their private lives…

Praise Jebus, God hates Love, Amen.

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
Mark Twain

Pritchard and crowd, it just ain’t so.

Jeff Wilfahrt, Rosemount, MN

If any legislator meets with the Family Council, talks to the Family Council, has any affiliation with the Family Council, they should be kicked out of office. This has to be one the most hateful, disgusting groups on the planet!

He’s lost the chance for a respectful with all the posted on their website. If he wants a real debate, he should have asked for an advisory referendum instead of a constitutional amendment.

The MN Family Council and the MN Republican Party are one and the same. They coordinate their activities, probably commingle funds when it comes down to it. Prichard is a former employee of the MN Republican Party and now works for it in another capacity.

When Bradlee Dean arrived at the capitol to hold his press conference later on the day of his prayer before the legislature, first he met with two Republican legislators in a parking lot. Then he drove a half block and met with Prichard before driving off and blowing off the press conference. In recent legislative sessions, DFL legislators were told by Pawlenty to get approval from Prichard on any sex education legislation before Pawlenty would look at it. Prichard calls the shots for Republicans on a lot of stuff related to social issues.

I’m not sure the MN Family Council really believes this trash on its web site. It’s one more tool for reaching its ultimate goal to get a certain group of voters to the polls to vote for Republican candidates. It’s that cynical.

Absolutely disgusting, and an affront to the Memory of the MN Gay Soldier who DIED in the Line of Duty protecting this Jackass’s FREEDOM ……well MN, the GOP has “RELEASED THE CRACKIN of HATE”

With every bigoted law they cause to be pass, they sow the seeds of their own final destruction.

When the MFC was started it was called the Berean League. The first issue the BL organized around was keeping Minnesota’s anti-sodomy law. Harming LGBT people is the raison d’etre of the Minnesota Family Council.

Yet another hate group.

“4b. Accepting homosexuals as “normal” victimizes homosexuals themselves.”

Yes, I am guilty of victimizing all of my gay friends by accepting them as normal. They also victimize themselves by considering themselves to be normal. Shame on us all. And thank goodness for the MFC for showing us the error of our ways.

I had to share this article with my friends on FB. I am sure many are prepared to vote no on the amendment in 2012.

Those friends who read this article I am sure will go out of their way to get registered so they can vote no.

Listed as a hate group is not far enough for the Family council. That group is really sick and demented.

Ok.. Animals have NO right of sexual consent.. They CANT TALK.. This is why bestiality is illegal.. It is animal abuse.. Children also don’t have the right of sexual consent until they are of a LEGAL age.. Otherwise you are either a pedophile or you are committing statutory rape.. What does ANY of this have to do homosexuality??

Holy Shite!! This group sounds like it came out of 1930′s germany!! Do all minnesotans adhere to this way of thinking or just the dumbf*ck republipukes??

The evidence to support the MFC is everywhere, unless you just don’t want to hear about it or you just don’t care.

Take this recent example of a former lesbian and a former homosexual, who both testify that they are recruited by gay activists at the age of 12 and 13, clearly showing the linkage between pedophilia and homosexuality.

You can listen to the interview and see for yourself or you are believe the lies and the gay-lobby tells as they try to discredit this story and countless others.
http://americansfortruth.com/news/part-two-aftah-interview-with-ex-lesbian-linda-jernigan.html

@Katie B.
You were created for great things, when are you going to start doing them?

Mr. Prichard, There is absolutely no way to have a “respectful discussion” when you start from such a hateful, ignorant, and ill-informed base. You offer no evidence to back up your inane accusations. When you are ready to do some fact checking and come up with empirical evidence instead of just making stuff up, then we can talk. That talk, however, will never happen because you won’t be able back up any of your comments.

It never ceases to amaze me that a bunch of overweight, obese people have the nerve to say that someone else’s “lifestyle choice” is dangerous. By the way, have you been tested lately… for your cholesterol? High blood pressure? Heart disease? Diabetes? Are people really just born that way or is it really a choice? Sorry, was that not “respectful”? Well imagine how it sounds when you lob similar jabs at someone else!

@Tim: Uh, quoting an “ex-gay” site that’s been discredited by every accredited psychological and sociological group in the US is hardly “proof”.

The preacher now says the world will end in October. Zealots are consistent if not accurate. Unfortunately, they’re also paternalizing and condescending, the opposite of the Messiah they claim to speak for.

Praise Jebus, God hates a clanging cymbal, Amen

Like I’ve said before:

Is it TIM or TOM???????????????

Isn’t interesting that a lot of these abhorrent behaviors that are pointed out can be easily found with in the Hetero-sexual world? Just go look at all the porn catering to heterosexual males of women piss, pooping, and puking on each other for the enjoyment for heterosexual males. Google a beastiality site and its straight men and straight women who are performing these sex acts on the animals. Not homosexuals. Sex should be Safe, Sane, and Consensual…animals can not consent just as underage children can not consent…and those boundries are respected.

Not to mention they’ve used a common double standard: Blame the whole for the acts of a few. Just because the Fred Phelps does something idiotic doesn’t mean it should reflect on all Christians or even all Baptists. How many Tea Partiers were upset that because a few of them were violent that it reflected on them all? Or that Sarah Palin was maligned because of a crazed gunman in Arizona? It’s ugly isn’t it? The honest truth is that ALL of us deserve to be judge by our OWN actions and by no one else’s. Otherwise, can’t you see how ugly it is when EITHER side does it?

This has got to be a joke… it’s just so pathetically sad that it becomes funny.

Definitely Jon Stewart material here. Let me see how to submit it to the Daily Show.

Time is the only thing that will judge hate. There is just no place for diluted radicals in the 21st century.

There is no cause greater than fighting oppression, so technically Tim is right. I was created by the Goddess for great things.

“Domestic partner benefits will serve as a “homosexual recruitment program”…Hmmmm

Where are these recruiting offices that he speaks of? Someone needs to tell Tom Prichard and the MFC that the Land of Make Believe was a fantasy creation of Mr. Rogers. Even Mr. Rogers admitted that this place did not exist.

I would love to live to see the day when public discourse shifts to identifying the social costs of religious fundamentalism.

@Tim, apparently you consulted with AFTAH for information on links between pedophilia and homosexuality. That’s like consulting with non Jewish anti Semites to learn about Jews.
Indeed, when it came to the young WOULD you consult the Klan about blacks?

When you need to learn about rapists and other abusers, you consult with criminal psychologists, rape counselors and law enforcement statisticians. And THEY will tell you that sexual abusers are NON EXCLUSIVE with regard to SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

You have to know that there are four distinct sexual orientations, and PARAPHILIAS are not. Paraphilias are aka, fetishes. Which are non consent obsessive behaviors. Also non exclusive to any sexual orientation.

Same sex sexual assault isn’t about same sex ATTRACTION, therefore not an issue of sexual orientation, but a matter of control, humiliation, power over the weak and the infliction of pain and suffering. Which is what prison rape, priest abuse, abuse of children, women and any others considered weak is about.
So this article, and your comment are dangerous misinformation. And misinformation for the purpose of creating hostility and distrust against gay people. As if that isn’t extremely dangerous. And a disgrace and affront to decency and morality.
All any of us has to know to make the most ethical and morally sound decisions and actions is to remember to treat another person the way we’d want to be treated, and to respect and appreciate what the legacies of equality, justice and civil rights have done for individuals and societies the world over.

Anyone who believes the tripe in this article, shouldn’t be demanding to vote on the civil liberties of gay people. Precisely the impetus for the 10th amendment of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. THESE are what need to be read, it’s not the Bible that garnered the freedoms and rights we DO have, but those precious documents, rendered in RECENT history and written in ONE language we can all understand. Reason enough to trust them, rather than the selective way in which Bible beaters want to control and disparage non believers.
I want you answer this: why are gay people vilified for accomplishing and doing also what heteros are applauded for? Such as serving honorably in uniform, adopting needy children and staying committed with longtime significant others and contributing to the taxation and other responsibilities of other citizens?
How is that SUSPECT, while straight people get respected for it?

I’d have to say it’s a moral impossibility to BENEFIT from people you vilify and work harder to discriminate FROM doing the right thing, than that they are incapable of doing the right thing to begin with.
A morally wise person would know the difference. And that, ain’t YOU, or the MN legislators that forwarded this disgraceful push to amend their Constitution.

The Minnesota Family Council, like its parent, the recognized hate group American Family Association, promotes discrimination against people based on transsexuality and other recognized intersex conditions that are inherent and innate, NOT behavioral or chosen, which cause someone to identify as a gender other than that which was assigned by a doctor, sometimes surgically, at birth. Additionally, it promotes discrimination against gay, lesbian and bisexual people who seek love and companionship rather than to live a life of lonely, closeted misery. It needs to be recognized that this group is the modern equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan and they must be treated appropriately.

Tim, if the “evidence is everywhere,” why hasn’t a single, reputable psychologists’ or psychiatrists’ professional group been able to find it? On the contrary, the APA removed homosexuality as a defined disorder years ago, has debunked the concept of “curing” homosexuals, and has issued a position paper supporting same-sex marriage.

The American Psychological Association says, “psychologists believe that negative attitudes toward gay people as a group are prejudices that are not grounded in actual experience but are based on stereotypes and misinformation.” Sounds like you, Tim.

@”Tim”: So you say people become gay when they are recruited by other gays. I’m gay. I’ve honestly never seen any “recruitment” going on with my own two eyes, but I’m still gay. Nobody “recruited” me; I just realized I wasn’t normal when I was in my teens and went into serious denial about it for ten years. I wasn’t going to join some kind of “ex-gay” movement, however, because who really wants some pseudoscientific religious organization f.ing around with his head? Not me. I finally had to swallow my anger at God and PRAY to be able to accept who I am, just the way I am. Now, I won’t hate you. Hate poisons the soul and is returned to you twice over. But I will respectfully ask you to review your attacks on gays, lesbians and transgendered people, and ask yourself: who does it really offend when people are slandered? Not only those being slandered, but also the friends and families of those being slandered and anyone with a decent and fair mind. You do not help your case at all by singling out confused and deceived members of our community and using their testimony as gospel to attack the rest of us, as recent poll numbers on gay marriage acceptance clearly indicate. You are not up against just us, but our straight allies as well, our friends and our family members. Blood is thicker than water–thicker even than holy water.

Dog -
Many of the same psychologists at the APA that argued for homosexual marriage and wrote that quote also continue to argue for legalizing pedophilia by lowing the age of consent.

And if you look at the history of the vote by the APA that removed homosexuality as a mental disorder, you will see how involved the gay-lobby was and you will find the majority of psychologists voted against it or didn’t vote at all because they were bullied not to. Like I said, the evidence is everywhere if you truly want to find it.

How does one know if it is a homosexual or political hungry lez doing the beastiality? Do we know the gender of the animal?

Two words: David RItter. Well, actually four: whores and diapers.

@Ophu –
I appreciate your civil questions. I am also glad you are praying to God. Read his word if you want to know him and what he has planned for your life.

You said;
“You do not help your case at all by singling out confused and deceived members of our community and using their testimony as gospel to attack the rest of us”

You are completely denying these ex-gays their right to choice a different lifestyle to live out their lives by calling them names and discarding their testimony that has changes their lives forever. Also, your accusation that I attacked the gay-community is completely false. This article is a direct attack on the MFC, an attempt to lie to the public to position the gay-community as being mistreated or not respected or discriminated against by the MFC.

You may not have seen or been involved in any gay-recruitment or pedophilia, but it is clearly happening and the gay-lobby provides a safe place and a cover for these activities to take place.

Oh THAT Louisiana “Poopy Traditional Family Values McChristian” Republican Senator David Vitter who loves to shit in Depends for cheap hookers …

@Tim: All of us have a right to live as we choose. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism. If the information you present is wrong, we have every right to call you out on it, to use OUR freedom of speech as well.

As far as “gay recruitment”, there is no such thing. Either you’re gay or you’re straight, and there’s very little most any of us can do about it. And people are gonna just be that way. There is NO reason to “recruit.” It is merely a red herring for you to use it as a cover to lie about gay people. And BOTH of us can be opposed to pedophilia. It is not an either/or thing and I will stand with you to oppose it. But to assume we are providing “cover” for it is a completely slanderous lie!

The problem with the fundamentalist position is they seek information almost exclusively from their own and dismiss as evil evidence to the contrary. These days they even hide the religious basis for their views behind words like family, heritage and even science for fear of revealing their true intent.

Debating zealots is a waste of air. Take the message to the moderate majority and undecided voters. Minnesota will do the right thing.

Praise Jebus, God hates an informed electorate, Amen.

Tim, you are bleating the same old, tired and discredited anti-gay schtick. Not a drop of what Porno Pete LaBarbara is true, and the man has an irregular fetish/obsession to macho gay men. Much of their garbage comes from this man, Paul Cameron. He is peer-repudiated. Some other comes from George “Rent-boy” Rekers and a FRAUD- convicted felon Arther “Abba” Golberg of JONAH.

Paul Drummond Cameron was born November 9, 1939, in Pittsburgh (PA).

He received his BA from Los Angeles Pacific College in 1961; his MA from California State University, Los Angeles, in 1962; and his PhD from the University of Colorado in 1966. His dissertation was titled Age as a determinant of differences in non-intellective psychological functioning.1

He was affiliated with various colleges and universities until 1980. They include Wayne State University (1967-68), University of Louisville (1970-73), Fuller Graduate School of Psychology [part of the Fuller Theological Seminary] (1976-79), and the University of Nebraska (1979-80).

On his curriculum vitae, he describes himself as a “Researcher/Clinician.” According to the web site of the Nebraska Department of HHS Regulation and Licensure, his license as a Psychologist has been “inactive” since 1995.

He is chairman of the Family Research Institute, PO Box 62640, Colorado Springs, CO, 80962-2640. Telephone: (303) 681-3113. Fax: (303) 681-3427. E-mail: pdcameron@juno.com

APA letter to Paul Cameron 12/2/83

In the mid-1980s, the gay press labeled Paul Cameron “the most dangerous antigay voice in the United States today.”2,3,4 Here are some important facts about him.

* On December 2, 1983, the American Psychological Association sent Paul Cameron a letter informing him that he had been dropped from membership. Early in 1984, all members of the American Psychological Association received official written notice that “Paul Cameron (Nebraska) was dropped from membership for a violation of the Preamble to the Ethical Principles of Psychologists” by the APA Board of Directors.5 Cameron has posted an elaborate argument about his expulsion from APA on his website, claiming that he resigned from APA before he was dropped from membership. Like most organizations, however, APA does not allow a member to resign when they are being investigated. And even if Cameron’s claims were accepted as true, it would be remarkable that the largest professional organization of psychologists in the United States (and other professional associations, as noted below) went to such lengths to disassociate itself from one individual.

* At its membership meeting on October 19, 1984, the Nebraska Psychological Association adopted a resolution stating that it “formally disassociates itself from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron in his writings and public statements on sexuality.”6

* In 1985, the American Sociological Association (ASA) adopted a resolution which asserted that “Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism” and noted that “Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research.”7 The resolution formally charged an ASA committee with the task of “critically evaluating and publicly responding to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron.”

At its August, 1986 meeting, the ASA officially accepted the committee’s report and passed the following resolution:

The American Sociological Association officially and publicly states that Paul Cameron is not a sociologist, and condemns his consistent misrepresentation of sociological research. Information on this action and a copy of the report by the Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology, “The Paul Cameron Case,” is to be published in Footnotes, and be sent to the officers of all regional and state sociological associations and to the Canadian Sociological Association with a request that they alert their members to Cameron’s frequent lecture and media appearances.”8

* In August, 1996, the Canadian Psychological Association adopted the following policy statement:

The Canadian Psychological Association takes the position that Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism and thus, it formally disassociates itself from the representation and interpretations of scientific literature in his writings and public statements on sexuality.

* Cameron’s credibility was also questioned outside of academia. In his written opinion in Baker v. Wade (1985), Judge Buchmeyer of the U.S. District Court of Dallas referred to “Cameron’s sworn statement that ‘homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals,’” and concluded that “Dr. Paul Cameron…has himself made misrepresentations to this Court” and that “There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron” (p.536).9

Footnotes

1Biographical information obtained from various sources, including Cameron’s curriculum vitae, Who’s Who in the West, 26th Edition, 25th Edition; Who’s Who in America, 52nd Edition, 51st Edition, 50th Edition. (return to text)

2Walter, D. (1985, October 29). Paul Cameron. The Advocate, pp. 28-33. (return to text)

3Fettner, A.G. (1985, September 23). The evil that men do. New York Native, pp. 23-24. (return to text)

4Pietrzyk, M.E. (1994, October 3). Queer science: Paul Cameron, professional sham. The New Republic, pp. 10-12. (return to text)

5Notice: Persons dropped from membership in the American Psychological Association. (1984). Internal communication from APA to all members. (return to text)

6The full NPA resolution read as follows:

The science and profession of psychology in Nebraska as represented by the Nebraska Psychological Association, formally dissociates itself from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron in his writings and public statements on sexuality. Further, the Nebraska Psychological Association would like it known that Dr. Cameron is not a member of the Association. Dr. Cameron was recently dropped from membership in the American Psychological Association for a violation of the Preamble to the Ethical Principles of Psychologists.

[Nebraska Psychological Association. (1984, October 19). Resolution. Minutes of the Nebraska Psychological Association. Omaha, Nebraska: Author.] (return to text)

7A copy of the full ASA resolution in Acrobat PDF format can be downloaded. It read as follows:

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron, a psychologist, was dropped from membership in The American Psychological Association for violation of the Preamble to the Ethical Principles of Psychologists;

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron has been presented in the media as a sociologist;

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism;

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research;

WHEREAS the American Sociological Association is on record as opposing oppressive actions against lesbians and gay men and affirming its commitment to their civil rights;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: THAT the Association reaffirms its opposition to efforts to undermine the civil rights of lesbians and gay men through the distortion of sociological concepts and the falsifying of sociological research; and

THAT the Association articulates this opposition by charging the Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology with the task of critically evaluating and publicly responding to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron.

[Sociology group criticizes work of Paul Cameron. (1985, September 10). Lincoln (NE) Star.] (return to text)

8 The ASA Task Force findings were described in ASA Footnotes (January, 1987, p. 4). The final resolution and the committee report were published in ASA Footnotes (February, 1987, page 14). Available from the American Sociological Association, Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology, 1722 N Street, NW, Washington DC 20036. (202) 833-3410. (return to text)

9On page 536 of his opinion, Judge Buchmeyer noted the following examples of misrepresentations by Cameron to the Court:

“(i) his sworn statement that “homosexuals are approximately 43 times more apt to commit crimes than is the general population” is a total distortion of the Kinsey data upon which he relies – which, as is obvious to anyone who reads the report, concerns data from a non-representative sample of delinquent homosexuals (and Dr. Cameron compares this group to college and non-college heterosexuals);

(ii) his sworn statement that “homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals” is based upon the same distorted data – and, the Court notes, is directly contrary to other evidence presented at trial besides the testimony of Dr. Simon and Dr. Marmour. (553 F. Supp. 1121 at 1130 n.18.)”

[Baker v. Wade, 106 Federal Rules Decisions 526 (N.D. Texas, 1985).]

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron_sheet.html

Tim, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron, a psychologist, was dropped from membership in The American Psychological Association for violation of the Preamble to the Ethical Principles of Psychologists;

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron has been presented in the media as a sociologist;

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism;

WHEREAS Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research;

WHEREAS the American Sociological Association is on record as opposing oppressive actions against lesbians and gay men and affirming its commitment to their civil rights;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED: THAT the Association reaffirms its opposition to efforts to undermine the civil rights of lesbians and gay men through the distortion of sociological concepts and the falsifying of sociological research;

9On page 536 of his opinion, Judge Buchmeyer noted the following examples of misrepresentations by Cameron to the Court:

“(i) his sworn statement that “homosexuals are approximately 43 times more apt to commit crimes than is the general population” is a total distortion of the Kinsey data upon which he relies – which, as is obvious to anyone who reads the report, concerns data from a non-representative sample of delinquent homosexuals (and Dr. Cameron compares this group to college and non-college heterosexuals);

(ii) his sworn statement that “homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals” is based upon the same distorted data – and, the Court notes, is directly contrary to other evidence presented at trial besides the testimony of Dr. Simon and Dr. Marmour. (553 F. Supp. 1121 at 1130 n.18.)”

[Baker v. Wade, 106 Federal Rules Decisions 526 (N.D. Texas, 1985).]9On page 536 of his opinion, Judge Buchmeyer noted the following examples of misrepresentations by Cameron to the Court:

“(i) his sworn statement that “homosexuals are approximately 43 times more apt to commit crimes than is the general population” is a total distortion of the Kinsey data upon which he relies – which, as is obvious to anyone who reads the report, concerns data from a non-representative sample of delinquent homosexuals (and Dr. Cameron compares this group to college and non-college heterosexuals);

(ii) his sworn statement that “homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals” is based upon the same distorted data – and, the Court notes, is directly contrary to other evidence presented at trial besides the testimony of Dr. Simon and Dr. Marmour. (553 F. Supp. 1121 at 1130 n.18.)”

[Baker v. Wade, 106 Federal Rules Decisions 526 (N.D. Texas, 1985).]

“Respectful debate” my ass. I have never been involved in a respectful debate with any of these anti-gay bigots. They impune my intelligence and disrespect me with their lies and slander. They use ambiguous facts from contestible and controvertible “scholars”. They turn tail and run from the truth.

So Tim, I see you needed some more validation in your life so you are back with your lies. I am still praying that God will save your soul and turn you from Saul to Paul.

THIS IS 40 YEAR OLD DIS-PROVEN GARBAGE FROM A QUACK MINNESOTA!!!

I’m waiting for Anita Bryant to walk in. 8 /

Jaha, it is far better to point out the blatant lies and disinformation with truth. The more succint that response is, the better.

Address your comments to those in the moveable middle.

The anti-gay extremists will inevitably and invariably be hoisted by their own petards.

One last thought, Tim. Jesus died for you , right? You know who also died for you? Corporal Andrew Wilfahrt of Rosemount, blown apart by a Taliban IED while serving our country in Afganistan. Cpl. Wilfahrt was gay. According to you, that makes him a miscreant pedophile who recruited children. I’d like to see you share your views with his loving family. As if you had the guts.

@ Tim, for a straight guy you spend a lot of time on this subject, that you seem to know so much about and most of us never heard of. I think you are dealing with your own issues of hate and blaming others, ugh just come out of the closet already. By no means was this a gay recruitment. Just saying.

You’re telling me that straight couples don’t engage in this as well? Get real, seriously.

“Homosexual practices are often astonishing to heterosexual people. Homosexuals must use body apertures not constructed for sexual penetration or bring their mouth into contact with areas designed for the elimination of human waste, which causes serious hygienic and health risks. Some homosexuals become urolagniacs (ingesting urine and feces) and engage in bestiality as well as other deviant behaviors.”

From the Words Have Consequences Department,

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/05/24/3-men-arrested-accused-of-anti-gay-beating/

Any comments GOP, Archdiocese of St Paul, Minnesota Catholic Conference, Bishops of Minnesota, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, NOM, Focus on the Family, The Family Policy Council? Denouncements and repudiations all around I suppose.

Praise Jebus, God hates living the Word, Amen.

Just Wow!

Tom Pritchard – where is your soul going after you die? Neither God nor the devil will want your stupid, ignorant, hate-mongering ass.You got your 15 minutes of fame, now go away with all the other hateful mouth-pieces who purportedly speak for a higher power whose only mistake was creating ass-hats like you.

Civil dialog??? Here is the Family Council in action in Massachusetts right now. Fraud, deception and unethical. So much for that civil “dialog.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEsGni-QsOU

The Grand Dragon of the Minnesota Family Council, Tom Prichard, has all the hallmarks of a bigot. He’s also a hypocrite for demanding others to commit to rules of honesty and reasonableness when during his entire career he’s absolutely refused to do the same.

If Tom Prichard were not a bigot you wouldn’t see him:

a) Using discredited information merely because it satisfies his bias.
b) Using behavioral outliers (like pedophilia) to smear the whole.
c) Lying about his true motivations, which are religious fundamentalist in nature. And let’s be honest. One of the last bastions of bigotry of all types in our society is strongly correlated with religious conservatism.
d) Not just opposing gay marriage, but favoring every policy available that has the potential to harm the lives of gays and lesbians.

Prichard motives are not noble, they don’t hail from a place of compassion for others.

Tim(/Tom?) wrote,
“Also, your accusation that I attacked the gay-community is completely false.” Again and again Tim invents his own reality. He must assume no one has a memory. If asserting that SSM will be responsible for the “destruction” of the country and private property and freedom, isn’t attacking gays and lesbians, I don’t know what is.

“Prichard’s” that is

evolutionisfact
Comment posted May 24, 2011 @ 9:56 am
Holy Shite!! This group sounds like it came out of 1930′s germany!! Do all minnesotans adhere to this way of thinking or just the dumbf*ck republipukes??

you hit that nail on the head…..take thier playbook back 75yrs – 1930′s Germany and the Demonization of the JEWS all over again…..its actually frightening

This is the same garbage in Bradlee Deans “My War” and shown in the credits. I’ll enjoy seeing his ass in court for it.

These professional bodies unanimously state:1. Homosexuality is an normal, naturally occurring trait2. “Reparative therapy” or “conversion therapy” does not work and is harmful to those subjected to it.

AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION

Sexual orientation and homosexualityhttp://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

Homosexuality: Nature or NurtureRyan D. Johnson April 30, 2003http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

APA Officially Rejects Reorientation Treatment for Homosexuals — Overwhelming research from the past hundred years rejected due to “serious design flaws.”http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/aug/09080608.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION

POSITION STATEMENT Homosexuality and Civil RightsApproved by the Board of Trustees, December 1973Approved by the Assembly, 1973http://www.psych.org/Departments/EDU/Library/APAOfficialDocumentsandRelated/PositionStatements/197310.aspx

POSITION STATEMENT Therapies Focused on Attempts to Change Sexual Orientation (Reparative or Conversion Therapies)Approved by the Board of Trustees, March 2000Approved by the Assembly, May 2000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION

AMA Policy Regarding Sexual Orientationhttp://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/glbt-advisory-committee/ama-policy-regarding-sexual-orientation.shtml

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AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS

Policy Statement: Homosexuality and Adolescence (RE9332)http://web.archive.org/web/20031212181440/http://www.aap.org/policy/05072.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SOCIAL WORKERS

Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Issueshttp://www.socialworkers.org/resources/abstracts/abstracts/lesbian.asp

Position Statement: “Reparative” and “Conversion” Therapies for Lesbians and Gay Menhttp://www.socialworkers.org/diversity/lgb/reparative.asp?print=1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UNITED PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS REJECT “REPARATIVE THERAPY” also called “CONVERSION THERAPY”http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_expr.htm

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association formed the “Just the Facts Coalition.” They developed and endorsed “Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation & Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel” in 1999.

The primer says, in part:

“The most important fact about ‘reparative therapy,’ also sometimes known as ‘conversion’ therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a ‘cure.’

“…health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people’s sexual orientation through ‘reparative therapy’ and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.” 

Homophobic ‘researcher’ Paul Cameron in all of his repulsive glory
“If you isolate sexuality as something solely for one’s own personal amusement, and all you want is the most satisfying orgasm you can get—and that is what homosexuality seems to be—then homosexuality seems too powerful to resist. The evidence is that men do a better job on men, and women on women if all you are looking for is an orgasm . . . Marital sex tends toward the boring end. Generally, it doesn’t deliver the kind of sheer sexual pleasure that homosexual sex does.” – Paul Cameron, Rolling Stone, March, 18, 1999

Not many people in the lgbt community or the world know who Paul Cameron is.

But we all should.

Paul Cameron is the grandfather of all anti-gay junk science.

When the religious right compares us to pedophiles, when they claim that we have a short life span, when they talk about how “how homosexuality has dangerous physical and medical consequences,” it’s his discredited “data” that they are inferring.

Paul Cameron is probably singlehandedly responsible for every lie, every distortion, every bastardization of science that has plagued the lgbt community since the onset of the AIDS crisis.

His bad research techniques and tactics has led him to be dismissed from major scientific groups, as well as censured by conservatives and liberals alike.

Unfortunately these techniques and tactics also gave the religious right a “scientific component” to attack the lgbt community. If there was no Paul Cameron, there would be no Peter LaBarbera, no Matt Barber, no Linda Harvey, etc., etc.

The following clips are of Paul Cameron in Poland this year, where he was barred from speaking at a university after his dubious history was made known.

I think you can see the ugly homophobia that has tainted his research from the beginning, especially with his fascination with anal sex in the gay community (of course he omits how heterosexuals also participate in this activity), and his claim that he has been the victim of a conspiracy of “ad hominem” attacks.

http://holybulliesandheadlessmonsters.blogspot.com/2009/07/homophobic-researcher-paul-cameron-in.html

Minnesota should kick him and his distorted lies to the curb too.

The “real fun” starts at 2:45 in this clip when he begins talking about how gays have a supposedly high rate of molesting children.

@Tim: I’m sorry that you’re an idiot, especially since you try so hard to look intelligent. For someone who is heterosexual, your arrogance at proposing to know so much about homosexuals is staggering.

Were you aware that in a number of studies, it’s been shown that the type of ‘therapy’ that is used for ‘curing’ homosexuality has been regularly found to result in long-term or permanent emotional and psychological distress in some?

That these ‘therapies’ are similar to the ones employed by the Russians in thought-pattern alteration experiments (i.e., brainwashing)?

Yeah – you’re advocating brainwashing as a ‘cure’ for something that isn’t a disease and isn’t harmful. So thanks for your ‘truths’; now STFU.

@Carl: Amen. With EVERY anti-gay amendment passed, anti-gay crime ALWAYS goes up. When the government tells people it’s okay to treat people as less than equal, people take that as a license to treat them less than human. It’s disgusting.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/05/24/3-men-arrested-accused-of-anti-gay-beating/

at the ones that are commenting that they fundies are taking us back to the 1930′s

here is an interesting interview from Bradlee dean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJI3_8n0bk

As I said before, some of the studies now present on the Family Research Council’s webpage (and thus considered to be accurate) contain some of the same information and citations present in the “outdated” studies.

Some of this information has gotten the Family Research Council in trouble a number of years ago.

Look at the study, Getting It Straight for example.

In chapter 4 – Is Homosexuality a Health Risk, there is this passage (pg. 88):

A study of 3,365 high school students published in Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine found: “Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or not sure male students were 6.50 times more likely to report a suicide attempt than heterosexual male students. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, or not sure female students were 2.02 times more likely to report a suicide attempt than their heterosexual female peers.”

Robert Garofalo, et al, “Sexual Orientation and Risk of Suicide Attempts among a Representative Sample of Youth,” Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine 153 (May 1999): 490.

In 1998, Garofalo complained that FRC and several other religious right groups was distorting his research. According to him, the groups omitted a crucial part of his findings (i.e. gay teens engage in negative behavior – suicide attempts – when faced with abuse from a homophobic society). Interestingly enough, when Garofalo complained, then FRC staff member Robert Knight questioned his credibility. (Boston doctor says ads distorted his work on gays, The Boston Globe, August 4, 1998 )

Then there is this passage in the same chapter on pg. 89:

A study published in the International Journal of Epidemiology on the mortality rates of homosexuals concluded that they have a significantly reduced life expectancy:

• “In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age twenty for gay and bisexual men is eight to twenty years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged twenty years will not reach their sixty-fifth birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871.”

In 2001, the researchers of this study complained that their work was being distorted by organizations like FRC.

Now wouldn’t complaints by a study’s author render it unusuable or a possible “outdated source?”

Apparently not to the Family Research Council.

Also:

Chapter 5 of Getting it Straight, Do Homosexual Parents Pose a Risk to Children, is interesting in that except for a few alterations (i.e. rearranging of text) it is identical to Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk – one of the studies FRC removed from its webpage claiming that it contained “outdated sources.”

By that same token, chapter 6 of Getting It Straight, Is There a Link Between Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse? is a total rehash of Homosexuality and Child Abuse, yet another study that FRC removed from its page for having “outdated sources.”

What’s interesting about Homosexuality and Child Abuse is that a researcher cited in it, Nicholas Groth, sent a letter to FRC in 2002 complaining about how his work was being distorted to prove that gays molest children at a higher number that heterosexuals – something that his work found not to be true.

However, despite his complaint over five years ago, Groth’s work is cited in Getting It Straight (pg. 123):

Another study found that “some authors now believe that boys may be sexually abused as commonly as girls (Groth, 1978; O’Brien, 1980).”

These are just a few of the things that I found. There so many other inaccuracies in these supposed credible studies. All of it makes one wonder just exactly is FRC’s definition of an “outdated source.”

And if I can take the question further – just what exactly is FRC’s definition of truth and Christian principles?

It is ironic that while FRC head Tony Perkins pleads innocent ennui and criticizes lgbts for our supposed intolerance, his group engages in tactics that justify our position of anger.

Regardless of one’s personal beliefs about homosexuality, no one should approve of FRC’s deceptive tactics.

http://holybulliesandheadlessmonsters.blogspot.com/2009/01/family-research-council-still-using.html

To Carl, Praise Jeebus, God loves tort actions, Amen

@dhc I expect a full-on, Martin Ssempa style “eat da poo poo” moment before next November.

“disproportionate number of “homosexuals” are pedophiles” um…I think he means priests.

And what is up with this?
“2c. Some homosexuals, especially lesbians, consciously choose a homosexual lifestyle as part of a political agenda.”
is that supposed to imply that most women in politics are lesbians? At the core of this manual is obviously sexism as well as homophobia.

I suspect this manual was written by unf@&kable men who hate women and who apparently want to eat the poop that comes from small children and have s^x with devil goats.

No respectful debate for you, Family Council because you simply don’t deserve respect.

@Jeff Wilfahrt

Bless your family and I pray and wish you healing.

- Katie B, RHS ’96

I guess they don’t want a conversation after all. Or the truth. They certainly dont want their peeps to see the repudiated garbage they are selling. They just blocked me from their fb page.

Liars lie.

@Tim: Believe it when I say that ex-gays are not straight. They have been shamed into believing a lie and they are sexually repressed because of the lie, but they are not straight. They have gone back into denial and that is just a sad, sad place to be. Take it from someone who was there for ten years. It is only sad.

and BTW, Time, I am not denying anyone of the right to live as they choose, but they are still confused and deceived and in denial.

Wendy,

Great post.

I’m more familiar with the creation-evolution debate, where you also find a great many instances of quote-mining, distorting and fabricating evidence, gross mischaracterizations and so forth. Here too are the many stories of scientists trying to correct errors and falsities, only to be ignored and have the error or falsity repeated again and again to new audiences.

This is the nature of the religious right.

Take this recent example of two alleged former Planned Parenthood workers and their, uh, testimony:

“They have an abortion budget and they have a certain number of patients that you have to perform abortions on every month, and there’s a dollar amount attached to each woman.”

Everett’s business plan included outreach in schools with talks given to break down children’s natural modesty and promote Everett and her clinic associates as trusted authorities for all things sexual.

Everett wanted students to “come to us with their sexual questions so we could put them on a low dose birth control pill we knew they’d get pregnant on. Of course we passed out condoms but we never passed out high quality condoms; we always used seconds or defective condoms. Our goal was to get the kids pregnant.”

The target, Everett says, was “three to five abortions between the ages of 13 and 18 from every girl we could find.”
[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/04/no_lie_too_low.php]

These conservative religious subcultures are almost universally intellectually and hence morally bankrupt. And they have the audacity to point fingers at anyone else for anything!

You sir, are a pedophile.

Just another part of the AFA, a hate group that hated blacks and noww focuses its “anything but ” christian values on hating gay people.

what else would you expect from a group headquartered in Mississippi

And why are they so focused and fetished on gay people and gay sex.?

Probably no differeent then the founder of the hate group FRC, George Reker

Who got caught taking a rentboy.com gay male prostitute to Europe to, in the words of the prositute, a college student, named Jo-Vanni Roman, he was hired to give Reker massages on his private parts

Reminds me of disgraced pastor Ted haggard, who ranted against gays.

Haggard got outed by his gay male prostitute boyfriend.

then he was “christian cured”, and got caught again.

At least Haggard has become honest now, and supports gay marriage.

One has to feel sorry for his wife, not sure what the status is re her.

Seriously? MFC 1) Keep your dead god and religion OUT of OUR laws. 2) Wow.Tim and MFC, do your keepers call you inside so when it rains you don’t drown? 3) I was not recruited. I was not told to be gay. I simply am. If one can choose to be straight, then you choose to be gay and try it for a while. Then judge. Last: I am not Christian, so keep your damn book to yourself. My Gods don’t care if I am gay or not. So why should I care if anyone is straight or not? I am as the Gods want me to be.

To those who commented with truth and honesty, as a gay man I appreciate your support. Thank you.

Having read some of the links to these creeps sites I can only hope;

if “the CHRIST” comes back, I hope it is as a fertile lesbian, the male version of that story just hasn’t caught on properly.

On second thought, let’s do the Zeller thing and reset all religion.

Does anyone have some goats so we can slit their throats on some table rock? Drink the blood, eat the meat and all that primal stuff where this crazy stuff started.

Among incarcerated offenders who molest male victims, the vast majority are male heterosexuals. Groth and Birnbaum, after examining 275 cases of male child molestation, say, “In any case, in over 12 years of clinical experience, we have yet to see any regression from an adult homosexual orientation.” In patient populations of ego-dystonic homosexuals, seduction of youthful males by older males is exceptionally rare. After surgical destruction of the female mating center to reduce a professional man’s interest in male children, his pedophilia became insatiable. Later destruction of his male mating center stopped the unwanted sexual behavior.

Unfortunately, these propagandists with phoney research, particularly Cameron and friends, can prove anything and obviously don’t even need subjects, just results.

ha ha

Reset all religion. That’s a GRRRREAT idea except it still wouldn’t fly with the atheistic streak in this rational humanist. And the DFLers better not complain this time, either!

[...] MN: Family Council Asks for ‘Respectable Debate,’ Says Gays Are Pedophiles Who Engage in Bestiality. Read more [...]

Tom Prichard has more butt plugs in him than a used-sex-toy shop.

actually Regan DuCasse, paedophilia is considered by most sexologists who study it to be a sexual orientation, not a ‘fetish’.

it’s fine to protect children from sexual abuse, but persecuting and stigmatizing paedophiles regardless of their conduct is no more morally defensible than homophobia.

@Wendy- Wonderful work, thank you for sharing.

@dancehallcrasher- ROTFL! Exactly. Apparently the MFC is so focused on framing GLBT’s with high crimes they have failed to notice the behavior of their own (if they have any straight people there). The constellation of shall we say adventurous and unusual sex sites oriented to straight people is vast and growing. Who’s viewing all this? Well, conservatives for one-

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Business/story?id=6977202&page=1

Praise Jebus, God hates inconvenient evidence, Amen.

Sean, you’re a sick puppy. Pedo’s deserve all the stigmitizing they get!

Progressively Queer,

LOL!

@Sean –
That is exactly my point. You said,
“stigmatizing pedophiles regardless of their conduct is no more morally defensible than homophobia.”

If we cannot say that homosexuality is morally wrong and take an honest look at the evidence that shows that it is destructive to society (like in the book, “Correct, not politically correct: How same-sex marriage hurts everyone”), then we cannot say that incest or pedophilia or polygamy or any form of sexual immorality is wrong.

And if none of these are wrong, then we cannot create laws to prohibit any of them. And if we cannot create laws to prohibit them, then we cannot protect children or woman or men from the destruction they cause that millions have testified to and continue to suffer from around the world.

And if we cannot determine the difference from right and wrong, then we cannot create any laws that prohibit anything and the entire society falls apart as the evil that is within humanity takes over. Morality is not just an option, it is critical to the wellbeing and sustainability of every society and nation in the world.

The reason the world is falling apart, is because evil is maturing just as predicted in the scriptures and the world is moving closer to another time in history where God needed to step in because there was no longer anything good to sustain life. The evil that is maturity in the world today is only capable of resulting in massive dead.

Just when I thought the bigots were going to stick with their faulty science strategy, Saint Tim reminds us that this ridiculous amendment is really part of a larger attempted coup d’état by the religious right. I think THAT represents the immediate threat to our nation. Let’s de-claw religious extremism of all sorts. Then take it from there.

Praise Jebus, God hates moderation, Amen.

Tim providing the Philosophy 101 definition of fallacy of the slippery slope.

Tom Prichard is my neighbor, which by the way is in Victory, voted Gayborhood of they year. Interesting, don’t you think?? You might guess he not the most popular guy on the block

Religious fundamentalism causes more harm to human societies than homosexuality ever could.

1) How we construct the human world is a reflection of the qualities of our minds. If, for instance, we went about constructing law, policy, the built environment, scientific research, art, etc., etc. on the basis of dogmatic, intolerance, closed-minded, anti-intellectual, low-creativity tendencies, our society would be very impoverished on almost every level. These psychological traits just so happen to correlate with the conservative/right-wing/religious fundamentalist orientation.*

2) In survey after survey of right-wing Christians we find an astonishing intolerance for, well, a great many things. A majority of right-wing fundamentalists are quite friendly to censorship of books and media. Large numbers want to deport Muslims and prevent open atheists from teaching in schools. Many want to ban embryonic stem cell research, and federal dollars going towards the study of evolution.

3) The religious right has a history of, believe it or not, fighting against human rights law. Religious right activists have successfully fought against, for instance, the US ratifying the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Every member of the UN has ratified this, except for the US and Somalia. This isn’t surprising. The religious right represents a worldview that sociologists have identified with pre-industrial and industrializing countries. In surveys Christian conservatives show strong support for the use of torture.

We could go on and talk about the flight of xtian fundamentalists into a growing subculture of homeschooling (brainwashing) where parents hope to “protect” their children from differing viewpoints and different people.

We could mention the long-standing support of Christian conservatives for genocidal butchers like evangelical general Efrain Rios Montt of Guatemala, or Augusto Pinochet, or the former apartheid government of South Africa, or the death squads of El Salvador or the murderous Contras of Nicaragua.

We could mention the opposition of the Christian right to an adequate social support network in the US, which is likely the cause of the US’s poor standing on a wide range of social well-being indicators like health outcomes, disease, homicide levels, divorce, and on and on.

We could mention the concerted opposition of the Southern Baptists to strengthening environmental laws. (Many thousands in the US die every year from environmental pollution.)

We could mention many more things.

The Tim’s of the world are living in a sick fantasy of moral righteousness that’s not informed by even a minimum of knowledge about the world and what counts as moral progress. They hold their Bibles high and preach their stupidities at everyone, utterly and shockingly oblivious to any current thinking about how we make a more ethical society.

*Don’t take my word for it. Do an extensive google scholar search on, let’s say, political psychology, and you’ll quickly become aware of the impressive body of literature that exists showing how–to put it very briefly–in general conservatives/right-wingers and religious fundamentalists are cognitively dysfunctional compared with non-conservatives and non-fundamentalists.

…MN citizens DON’T let Maggie Gallagher and Brian Brown define your state……with HATE! The ONLY thing this Ammendment will do is LINE THEIR POCKETS $$$ ..and IF this ammendment passes…it leaves your state BRUISED and On the WRONG side of History…you won’t stop people from marrying, they just wont do it in your state ie: LOSS of Revenue $$$ …and Fat Cow Gallagher and lard ass Brown will be Grinning like chesser Cats, as they drive off, Pockets Full $$$ laughing at MN in thier rear view mirrors……and WHAT will MN look like after all is said a done? A divided state, neighbors not speaking anymore…Hurt feelings never to heal…..and MN on the WRONG SIDE of History! VOTE NO!

There is no such thing as a “legitimate alternative viewpoint” when it comes to equal treatment under the civil law. This includes the civil, non-religious application of state marriage laws, with their accompanying rights and responsibilities.

No one likes to be called a bigot, but when the shoe fits…

All you self-identified “moderate” Christians out there? Straight people? Hello? You’d better get out there and show your fellow Minnesotans that this kind of bigotry isn’t representative of Christian values by voting to reject this proposed amendment. If you stay home and don’t vote against this thing, then you’ll be just as represensible as the “God Hates Fags” bunch.

A Moral IQ Test:

Please choose which one represents the moral problem:

1.
a) The 32(or ?) farm workers who will be diagnosed with cancer this year in California due to exposure to carcinogenic pesticides.
b) Two men kissing.

2.
a) Thousands of people starving in India due to high food prices caused in large part by Wall Street speculators.
b) Two women going down on each other.

3.
a) Thousands of new cases in the US per day of stress-induced illness due to overwork.
b) Two men who have lived together for 20 years getting married tomorrow in Canada.

4.
a) The children whose bodies were blown apart as they were playing on a trash heap in Iraq when a US fighter plane bombed them. (In the NYT–date forgotten.)
b) A teacher and a social worker, both females, who are raising two girls together.

If you chose b over a in any of the above, you failed.

@Eric- Wonderful! Alas, I suspect the religious right would claim b causes a.

Praise Jebus, God hates empirical facts, Amen.

Looks like Andy removed yet another article from the home page after the evidence that I provided was just too much to discredit, even with a 20 to 1 ratio of devoted followers. The media continues to censor information to keep the truth hidden.

This is why the 20 something’s don’t seem to know much of anything about the dangers of this gay-marriage and are voting for it. The truth has been hidden from them since they don’t believe anything; they are easy prey to believe what they are told. What a tragedy we have in America and around the world. The young people are being led right into a trap that will cost them everything.

Tim:

What are you referring to? I’m the editor, and I move content around on the page, not Andy. And I do so not to hide your “evidence,” but to better serve our readers. (You flatter yourself if you think your comments would dictate any changes on this site.)

Perhaps you’re unaware that older stories are pushed off the page as new ones are added up top? If that’s the case, you might try clicking the “Older Entries” link at the bottom of the home page before making accusations.

Magical thinking and paranoia are self-reinforcing.

Praise Jebus, God hates Democracy, Amen.

“Now, don’t try to get away! I am more muscular, more cunning, faster, and larger than you are, and I am a genius..” -Wile E. Coyote

Praise Jebus, God hates the tree of knowledge, Amen.

“Homosexuals must use body apertures not constructed for sexual penetration or bring their mouth into contact with areas designed for the elimination of human waste, which causes serious hygienic and health risks”

given the number of heterosexual couples compared to homosexual couples and given the number of heterosexual couples that practice some form of anal stimulation including penetration and also oral sex there are more heterosexual couples practicing both forms of sexual intimacy than homosexuals., and they do it without any form of recrimination whatsoever. where is the witch hunt to condemn heterosexuals who practice anal sex. among believers the common thinking is that what happens in the marrriage bed is nobody else’s business.

and why do those who have penises and vaginas practice anal sex ? because the anus was constructed as an erogenous zone where anal orgasms are possible.

Because Tim, YOU’RE WRONG! You’ve drawn your line in the sand on the wrong side of what is normal, natural and healthy and in dirrect opposition to EVERY REPUTABLE AND ACCREDITED ORGANIZATION (over 477,000) AND SCIENCE HAS FOUND.

You’re flat WRONG! Thats why. Join the LGBTI’s in fighting pedophilia. NO OTHER GROUP has done more in this fight.

Being gay is not a “condition”. It is a human trait no more changeable than race, hair color, eye color, etc. You may have been told, persuaded and now believe otherwise. However, those professionals who study such matters disagree vehemently with your beliefs.

You asked about science. Here are some resources.
These professional bodies unanimously state:
1. Homosexuality is an normal, naturally occurring trait… See More
2. “Reparative therapy” or “conversion therapy” does not work and is harmful to those subjected to it.

AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION

Sexual orientation and homosexuality
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture
Ryan D. Johnson April 30, 2003
http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html

APA Officially Rejects Reorientation Treatment for Homosexuals — Overwhelming research from the past hundred years rejected due to “serious design flaws.”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/aug/09080608.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION

POSITION STATEMENT Homosexuality and Civil Rights
Approved by the Board of Trustees, December 1973
Approved by the Assembly, 1973
http://www.psych.org/Departments/EDU/Library/APAOfficialDocumentsandRelated/PositionStatements/197310.aspx

POSITION STATEMENT Therapies Focused on Attempts to Change Sexual Orientation (Reparative or Conversion Therapies)
Approved by the Board of Trustees, March 2000
Approved by the Assembly, May 2000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION

AMA Policy Regarding Sexual Orientation
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/glbt-advisory-committee/ama-policy-regarding-sexual-orientation.shtml

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS

Policy Statement: Homosexuality and Adolescence (RE9332)
http://web.archive.org/web/20031212181440/http://www.aap.org/policy/05072.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SOCIAL WORKERS

Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Issues
http://www.socialworkers.org/resources/abstracts/abstracts/lesbian.asp

Position Statement: “Reparative” and “Conversion” Therapies for Lesbians and Gay Men
http://www.socialworkers.org/diversity/lgb/reparative.asp?print=1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UNITED PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS REJECT “REPARATIVE THERAPY” also called “CONVERSION THERAPY”
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_expr.htm

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association formed the “Just the Facts Coalition.” They developed and endorsed “Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation & Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel” in 1999.

The primer says, in part:

“The most important fact about ‘reparative therapy,’ also sometimes known as ‘conversion’ therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a ‘cure.’

“…health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people’s sexual orientation through ‘reparative therapy’ and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.”

Again, I hope you will examine and consider this evidence with an open mind.

Quick Facts About Homosexuality

by C. Ann Shepherd

Sexual orientation can not be caught or taught.

“Family fears of catching homosexuality, or of being recruited at school
or elsewhere are utterly without scientific foundation.”
~ Dr. Jack Weinberg, President American Psychiatric Association,
October 6, 1977.

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

Sexual orientation is deep-seated and not something one chooses to be
or not to be.
~ Dr. Alan P. Bell, senior author of “Sexual Preference”, Bell, Weinberg
& Hammersmith, Indiana University Press, 1981.

Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early
in the life cycle, possibly even before birth.
~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on
Sexual Orientation, July, 1994.

It is believed that there are several factors which determine sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is likely to be the result of several different factors,
including genetic, hormonal, and environmental. None of these factors
alone are responsible for determining sexual orientation. Psychological
and social influences alone cannot cause homosexuality.
~Tineke Bodde’, “Why is My Child Gay? ” Federation of Parents and Friends
of Lesbians and Gays, Inc., 1988.

“There is evidence that parents have very little influence on the outcome
of their children’s sexual orientation under normal upbringing conditions.”
~June Machover Reinisch, Ph.D. (Response from brochure) “Why is My
Child Gay?” Federation of Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays,
Inc., 1988.

Gays & lesbians discover their sexual orientation. They are not recruited or brainwashed into the “gay lifestyle”.

Gay and lesbian children are often aware of being different at a very early
age. They generally become aware of their sexual orientation during
adolescence or early adulthood.
~ R.R. Troiden, “The Formation of Homosexual Identities”, The Journal
of Homosexuality, 17, 43-73.

Homosexuality is not a mental or emotional disorder.

The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither
mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of
our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study
documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of
judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness
all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as
heterosexuals.
~ The American Psychiatric Association and The American Psychological
Association, July 1994

Efforts to change sexual orientation are ineffective and can be harmful.

Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are
nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments.
~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on
Sexual Orientation, July, 1994.

No scientific evidence exists to support the effectiveness of any therapies
that attempt to convert homosexuals to heterosexuals.
~ John C. Gonsiorek and James D. Weinrich, eds., Homosexuality:
Research Implications for Public Policy, Newbury Park, Calf.: Sage, 1991.

All attempts fail when gay people try to become heterosexual.
~D. C. Haldeman, “The Practice and Ethics of Sexual Orientation Conversion
Therapy”, Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 62, p.221-227, 1994.

“Groups who try to change the sexual orientation of people through so-called
conversion therapy are misguided and run the risk of causing a great
deal of psychological harm to those they say they are trying to help.”
~Dr. Raymond Fowler, American Psychological Association Executive Director

Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy
may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized
homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual
orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so.
~American Psychiatric Association

The incidence of homosexuality is constant regardless of new laws or social attitudes.

It [homosexuality] is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure
which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different
moral values and standards of a particular culture.

Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population
does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores.
~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on
Sexual Orientation, July, 1994.

Gay and lesbian youth are at greater risk of committing suicide.

Gay and lesbian youth are two to three times more likely to attempt suicide
than their heterosexual peers.

Gay and lesbian teens account for thirty percent of all completed suicides
among adolescents.
~U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. “Report of the Secretary’s
Task Force on Youth Suicide”, Washington D.C., 1989.

Gay and lesbian people are just as capable of being good parents as are heterosexual parents.

Children who are raised in gay or lesbian homes are no different in any
aspects of psychological, social, or sexual development from children in
heterosexual families.
~C.J. Patterson, “Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents”, Child Development,
63, 1025-1042.

Thirty-five different studies have shown that children of gay and lesbian
parents are no more likely to become homosexuals than children of
heterosexuals, and are just as well adjusted.
~Jane Gross, “New Challenge of Youth: Growing up in Gay Homes”,
New York Times, February 11, 1991.

Gay men and lesbian women are rarely involved in child sexual abuse.

In the U.S. ninety percent of all sexual child abuse is committed by
heterosexual men. The molesters are almost always family members,
close family friends or the mother’s boyfriend.
~P.J. Falk “Lesbian Mothers: Psychological Assumptions in Family Law”,
American Psychologist, 44, 941-949, 1989.
~Mary Koss, et al. “No Safe Haven: Male Violence Against Women At Home,
At Work, And in the Community”,
American Psychological Association, 1994.

Gay people are not obsessed with sex.

Gay men and lesbian women share the same amount of interest in sexual
activity as heterosexual persons, neither more nor less.
~Alan P. Bell and Martin S. Weinberg, for the Institute for Sexual Research,
“Homosexuality: A Study in Human Diversity”, Simon and Schuster, 1978.

There is no single Gay Lifestyle.

The lives of gay men and lesbian women are just as varied as the lives of
heterosexuals.
~Linda D. Garnets and Douglas C. Kimmel, “Psychological Perspectives on
Lesbian and Gay Male Experiences”, Columbia University Press, 1995.

©1996-1998 C. Ann Shepherd

Just in case thats not enough, WATCH THIS! Reinforcement from MOTHER NATURE and the animal kingdom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d68_vlLD60Y

Jesus calls Tim on his cell phone.

Jesus: Tim, it’s me, Jesus.
Tim: Jesus! Wow! It’s really you! Wow! Je…

Jesus: It’s only me, your sweet Jeezy.
Tim: Jesus! I can’t believe…

Jesus: Whoa horsey, whoa! Ok now. Say, is that a little Bible in your pocket, and I do mean little, or are you just happy to see me?
Tim: Wha…

Jesus: Say Timmy-kins, I’ve noticed you’ve been making a lot of comments about same sex marriage.
Tim: I’m building up points in my heavenly bank account, Lord.

Jesus: I see. Did you know that I’m in an eternal three-way same sex relationship?
Tim: Wha… What do you mean? You just mean you’re part of the holy trinity, right?

Jesus: Holy is the least of its virtues, sweetie. My bear daddy, the Holy Ghost and I are, shall we say, quite close. Intimate. No, that’s not quite it…uh…Lovers.
Tim: Jesus, I can’t believe… The Holy Ghost is just a spirit!

Jesus: Have you ever seen my Ghost?
Tim: No one can see him, Lord.

Jesus: No one on earth, that is. In heaven we see things you can’t. In heaven you’ll notice that the Holy Ghost has a penis. Everyone sees it here since no clothing is allowed.
Tim: Whuh!? Are you… blaspheming? Who is this!?

Jesus: Notice that you don’t need your cell phone to hear me. Is that proof enough?
Tim: Uh…

Jesus: I’ll tell you what Timmy-toms, if you want to build up brownie points in heaven, you’ll first have to accept that your Jeezy is a lover of everyone. And if or when you get here…that remains to be seen. Ta-ta dahling. Talk to ya LAAYYY-terrrrr. [A dial tone is heard]
Tim: …

if the family council is christian they should know that standard for the new covenant is christ’s love(love one another as i have loved you) an directed by the 2nd commmandment(love neighbor)romans and galatians

his love is spirit and believers live under spirit(not the law)god’s grace which is also spirit (christ’s love)

the way we know that t being gay is of god is that those who are gay live the fullness of god’s love in their lives and marriages in the same way as do heterosexuals.

where god’s spirit rests is what is of god.

@Tim:

Despite Turek’s supposed ‘departure’ from religious arguments against homosexual marriage, the entirety of his book is written backwards.

He begins by assuming, with no possibility of difference, that homosexuality and same-gender marriage is inherently wrong. He then provides only that information which, when twisted and viewed appropriately by an audience who is already predisposed through religious belief to argue against homosexuality, supports that view.

For instance, one of the key points of his argument is that homosexual activity is inherently medically harmful. This ‘evidence’ is not evidence at all, but a series of claims that have either been debunked or are only half the story.

As an example, he mentions (either in his book, or in an interview supporting the book – I can’t remember which) the studies that found that homosexual activity leads to a higher possibility of rectal cancer.

What he fails to detail on is that this is due to human papillomavirus (commonly known as HPV) also has been found to greatly increase the risk of cervical cancer in women. In other words, he attributes a higher risk of cancer to homosexuals due to HPV, insinuating that this is a unique problem to homosexuals – when in fact it is just as likely to lead to cancer in heterosexual couples. But to mention that would wreck this point of his argument.

At another point, Turek references the works of Unwin. Unwin made the following statement about civilizations that eventually collapsed: “that abandoned this ethic [of strong marriage values], including the Roman, Babylonian, and Sumerian empires…,” a complete end of their culture soon followed after liberalizing sexual practices.

Talk about simplification. First, it presumes that this abandonment of marriage ethics was regarding same-sex marriage, or acceptance of homosexual relationships in general; that was not shown by Unwin’s research. Secondly, it makes a HUGE presumption that because this occurred, it MUST have been a major cause in the downfall of these societies; any competent anthropologist recognizes and admits that to claim something as a key or primary reason for societal collapse is just bad theory.

So perhaps you need to adjust your tinfoil hat before you come in here next time – or at the very least, you should read the works of people who are actually being unbiased in their views of the issue (something that Turek very definitely is NOT)).

Minnesota needs to dump ALL of the extremism including the MFC who has now been proven to push scientifically peer-repudiated KNOWN FALSEHOODS to purposefully misinform and demonize Minnesotans to further their own political agendas. This ISN’T Uganda folks. My bet is that Minnesotans don’t take kindly to being manipulated into turning on their fellow Minnesotans.

http://minnesotansunitedforallfamilies.com/

Turek also enjoys repeating the discredited lies of Paul Cameron and he repeats the stanley kurtz lie that gay marriage led to more out of birth wedlocks in the netherlands. but it was discredited – http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-08-07/news/17441750_1_same-sex-marriage-same-sex-couples-stanley-kurtz

Blah, blah, blah. Next!

Tim, you are burdened by a belief that I’m interested in your regressive thinking. Let me relieve you of that. Your naive realism, claims to moral objectivity and other cognitive biases are merely banal impediments to human progress. Your nostalgia for the past, when child sacrifice, slavery and infanticide were universals of the natural order, are evidence of a simplistic and shallow perspective.

NOM’s methods of ‘defending marriage’ are unchristian

http://holybulliesandheadlessmonsters.blogspot.com/2011/05/noms-methods-of-defending-marriage-are.html?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4ddd85d4f6babc25%2C0

Tim, if same sex marriage meant lowering the age of consent, how come Canada raised theirs after legalizing same sex marriage?

feetxxxl: “the way we know that t being gay is of god is that those who are gay live the fullness of god’s love in their lives and marriages in the same way as do heterosexuals.

where god’s spirit rests is what is of god.”

I’m glad you figured out what took me years to figure out on my own. I grew up religious in a small town in northern MN. When I realized I was gay, I thought long and hard about what that meant for me as gay and Christian. Why would God make me this way if I was incapable of fulfilling his vision of even being attracted to, let alone marrying, someone of the opposite gender? Was I to live my life alone? In a lie? Or would I go to h-ll simply for being who I was?

After years of wandering, the answer was so simple it was right in front of me: If I’m gay, just be the best gay there can be. After all, there is no greater immorality than saying, no matter what you do, you’re going to h-ll. Then what motivation does anyone have to be good?

Luckily I did find love. I did settle down. And now I would like to spend the rest if my life with my partner, and, just like my heterosexual siblings, one day stand before my family, my friends and my community and declare my legal and spiritual commitment to him and say “I do.”

Is that really so radical? Actually it’s down right wholesome. And you know what? That’s just the way I was raised.

@Joe- Beautifully written. Would you mind being quoted on other information sites?

@Carl: Please do!

Thank you Joe. We need the ones with faith to stand up. It was beautiful.

It seems that the MFC has banned quite a few people from their face book page.

They can not and will not allow for tolerance of any other opinion that is not their own that is bigotry.

When a society flaunts it’s immorality to the ridiculous point of equating sodomy with marriage, it is a sign that we have degenerated to a dangerously low level. When a society is destroyed, families who survive will build another. When families are destroyed – there can be no society. Therefore governments of civilized societies have a duty and obligation to protect and favor families as the building block of society.
Public schools and universities have been dumbing-down and propagandizing students for nearly 35 years for us to get to the point of supporting the idea of civil unions or favoring legalized “same-sex marriage.” In fact, a majority does not support these fringe ideas, especially when they are informed. It is the ignorant masses that allow the media to form their world view who fall prey to this insanity.

After years of fostering the lie, the APA recently, finally admitted that there is no “gay” gene. There is no scientific evidence to support the false idea that homosexuals are “born that way”. They originally removed homosexuality from the list of deviant behaviors because of social pressure from activists within their association, NOT on a scientific basis. This was no surprise to me because I have learned more than I ever wanted to know about homosexual lifestyles because of a few relatives in my extended family. I have read, researched, studied and experienced being related to this issue for 20 years.

While sympathizing with the plight of anyone with any disorder or addiction we should never grant special status, privileges or protections based on a chosen behavior as though it were an immutable characteristic like skin color. Particularly when that behavior is gravely immoral and destructive of persons, families and societies. Despite the tremendous success the homosexual lobby has had in sanitizing their image for public consumption, it is a disordered sexual appetite which defines a person solely by their quest to satisfy their disordered libido and should never be encouraged or endorsed with the weight of the law. These laws merely create tools for recruitment.

It is extremely foolish and irresponsible to deliberately promote a dangerous lifestyle in our media, schools or anywhere. It is well known that the incidences of STD’s, drug abuse, violence and suicide are disproportionately higher in the homosexual community. Furthermore, when a child thinks they are “gay” this indicates they have been molested, abused and/or exposed to inappropriate adult behavior. It is ludicrous that teachers unions and school boards are irresponsibly promoting sterile lifestyles of abortion and homosexuality when they are depleting their own clients.

Homosexuals are far more likely to molest children than others, as the vast majority of them were victims themselves of child sexual abuse and/or enlistment by an adult. EVEN THOUGH MOST HAVE NEVER ADMITTED IT. In many cases alcohol, drugs and pornography are used to help enlist the minor. Even more disturbing is a strong link which exists between pedophilia and homosexuality as evidenced by the degenerate pedophile rights group, NAMBLA regularly participating in gay parades and the emphasis on sex with minors in “gay” publications.

Lying in the name of God… you know, Faithless, I think there’s a fairly important rule laid down by your god about that…

Oh gosh! I honestly can’t remember ever seeing a NAMBLA contingent in any of the many Gay Pride parades I’ve attended over the years much less mention of NAMBLA in any of the gay publications for the past decade or so. Perhaps confused Faithless is thinking about the holy Roman Catholic church and its many scandals and crimes of this sort?

You are disordered for spewing that REPUDIATED Paul Cameron garbage Faithful. You should be ashamed but I see that critical thought is not your high point.

My question is, what will you do when you find out that you’ve been lied to and manipulated to disparage an entire class of people???

@Faithful- Please open your heart and mind and read Wendy Leigh’s posts on current peer reviewed research on this subject. You are passing along erroneous information and I cannot believe this is intentional. It certainly is not Christ-like

Praise Jebus, God hates an informed opinion, Amen.

There is no “gay gene” because sexual orientation isn’t a function of simple Mendelian genetics, not because it isn’t an innate characteristic. The idea of a “gay gene” was a laughably simplistic attempt by the *mainstream media* to make certain avenues of scientific research comprehensible to the general public — efforts which left the actual scientists involved in said research banging their heads on their desks going, “It’s not that simple!”

The idea that the lack of a “gay gene” proves homosexuality is a choice is grossly dishonest and betrays your total ignorance of modern science.

The overwhelming preponderance of evidence shows that sexual attraction is an inborn tendency, subject to personal taste of course (a friend of mine describes herself as attracted “to people femmier than me,” which mostly include women but does not rule out the occasional very feminine man). The fact is that psychological “treatments” which alter sexual attraction to any significant extent, do so by profoundly damaging the patient, which is both unprofessional and inhumane.

Homosexuality is not a mental or emotional disorder.

The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither
mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of
our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study
documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of
judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness
all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as
heterosexuals.
~ The American Psychiatric Association and The American Psychological
Association, July 1994

Faithful,

You make many claims in your writing and we can take those up if you wish, but there’s one in particular I’d like to address. It’s your belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. “Gravely immoral” is one hyperbolic phrase you used.

I would argue that on the contrary homosexual acts can be deeply moral, civilizing and connected with the higher aspirations of human society. Conservative Christianity–a subset of Christianity–believes something just the opposite, and it’s entitled to its belief. But I would argue that this belief stems from a systemic lack of intellectual seriousness and honesty. It functions as a kind of blinding moral fiction, a pretense at universality and objectivity, when in reality it’s an historical lie born of insufficient cultural resources that would enable a minimally informed view to emerge. One of the worst rationalizations for holding moral proposition X to be true is that this is what was believed in the past. The most passing familiarity though with Western moral history and thought reveals a continual evolution–why this doesn’t give traditionalist pause can only be explained by inattention, incuriosity and dogmatism in my view.

I present two pieces of evidence for what I hold to be Christianity’s fundamental wrong-headedness about homosexuality. I submit that it stems from its notorious traditional ignorance and lack of honesty about human sexuality in general. It approaches sex with an utter disregard for both a) lived human experience, and b) the ever-evolving and rich body of literature on the academic and scientific study of sexuality.

a) The first mistake of traditionalist Christianity is to assume that sexuality and sexual desire are inherently sinful, a debasing force in human life. Whether this ancient starting assumption can be traced back to the Christian myth of the Garden of Eden, or to the influence of the stoics, or some other influence, is academic for my purposes. My point is that this historical turn was entirely voluntary. That is, viewing sexuality as inherently suspect and sinful was optional. Sexuality is, of course, a dual phenomenon consisting of unruly appetites and potential complications and undesirable outcomes, but it’s also a force of pleasure, unification, self-transcendence, blissful awareness, fun and adventure, ease in the world, comfort in our bodies, happy outcomes, and a way to reduce tension and aggression. Christianity’s mistake was to fixate on the former and suppress the latter, and convince itself that this should be a universal and objective view of sexuality. (The much more intelligent and wise and moral thing to do in my view is to acknowledge both and construct social systems to handle both.)

One of the reasons for the great falling away from Christian faith that we’re seeing in the West likely has to do with the contradiction people are discovering between what the church teaches about sexuality, and the moral truths people discover about sex on their own.

b) Traditional Christianity is probably 50 years or even a century behind the academic study of sexuality–certainly the Catholic Church is. The ignorance with which traditionalist Christians typically approach sexuality is stunning in light what we actually know about sexuality.

Two key points:

1) People engage in all kinds of sexual behavior–masturbation, anal sex, oral sex, role-playing, same sex, group sex, erotic fantasy–and they don’t die. They don’t ruin their lives or the lives of others. In fact, a wide range of sexual behavior is utterly and even boringly functional and healthy for many people. When conservative Christians then proclaim that sexual behavior x, y or z is “wrong”, “immoral” or “disordered”, they then essentially have to pretend that none of this evidence exists, that despite the finding of research (not to mention lived human experience–see above), the practice of masturbation or anal sex is still somehow inherently “wrong” or “sinful” seems (and as a matter of fact, is) willfully ignorant and the product of extreme bias.

2) And just to amplify the point about sexology…science and asking questions of people, and framing theories, and engaging in criticism, etc., is how we arrive at actual knowledge of human behavior, not consulting a pre-scientific book, the Bible, or relying on the giant Rorschach test which is theology. Neither theology nor the Bible gave us the knowledge we now have about human sexuality. Nowhere in the Bible is there any significant, informed knowledge about what we now know about human sexuality. We should no sooner turn to the Bible for answers about astrophysics than we should concerning human sexuality.

In sum, traditionalist Christianity has nothing of interest to tell us about the morality of sexuality. Our lived experience in combination of what we know through academic research is a vastly superior guide to making moral decisions about our sexual lives.

NAMBLA was 30 years ago, AND THEY’RE NOT GAY. They were pedophiles. Society only hopes that the Catholic Church would handle their business in the same way that the gay community rooted out NAMBLA years ago Faithful (or should I say Barb). Handle YOUR business!

I have to make another comment about Faithful’s remarks. She/he wrote,

“When a society flaunts it’s immorality to the ridiculous point of equating sodomy with marriage, it is a sign that we have degenerated to a dangerously low level.”

Think about what this sentence is telling us about Faithful and her mindset, her view of the world, the sum of what she’s learned in life and to what she attributes primary importance. If one were to speak in terms of the overall moral qualities of a society, she appears to believe one of the deciding factors is how we view anal sex. Seriously? Yes, actually, she is.

It’s not…
-how well we treat our senior citizens.
-whether we’re adequately funding brain cancer research and support systems for sufferers.
-whether we’re bringing about another mass extinction of animal and plant life on the planet.
-whether the public schools are doing a good enough job educating young people about healthy lifestyles in order to avoid the oncoming crisis of overweight and diabetes.
-whether our schools are generating minds capable of creativity and critical thought.
-whether every American is able to afford nutritious food today.
-whether rape survivors are able to get the counseling and support they need.
-whether we’re taking adequate steps to ensure that mercury contamination from coal-fired power plants is not damaging neural development in children.
-whether we have a media that is not beholden to the power structure.
-whether the small arms trade it producing needless deaths in conflict zones.
-whether the mental health needs of returning soldiers are being met.

No, it’s whether you or me, gay or straight, are having anal sex. This one of Faithful’s main criteria for judging the moral character of society. Two people pleasuring each other somehow becomes a moral problem. And then that alleged moral problem becomes on par with or even a more weighty measure of the moral quality of our society than let’s say the US’s high homicide rate, or a thousand other things.

Somehow I keep telling myself that trying to reason with these people serves a purpose, and that if the errors in their reasoning are pointed out they might rethink and come around to a more sensible view. Other times I think that the ignorance and inability to think are so profound and deeply grooved there’s no penetrating it.

Thanks Eric.

Speaking about “EX-GAYS” lets hear from the Original Founders of Exodus Intl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDiYeJ_bsQo&feature=related

As Christ says, “It’s what comes out of your mouth that defiles you.” Not only is the anti-gay pressure group MFC redefining “faith” as “putting the civil rights of those you disagree with up to a popularity vote,” now they want to redefine “respectable debate” as “indoctrinating our school children in filthy, hateful, dishonest language about other Americans!” Is this REALLY what we want for our children to learn in schools if this amendment passes? MFC is trying to hide their wicked agenda by removing their real goals from their website, but we won’t forget.

Have they been listening to Rick “Google Me” Santorum? Sounds like one of his campaign speeches.

A new report commissioned by the U.S. Catholic Conference of Bishops has kindly concluded that gay priests were not the cause of the explosion of child abuse cases that has, you should pardon the expression, bedeviled the Church over the past several decades. In fact, echoing the argument gay activists have made forever, the study found that more openness among gay priests is actually one of the reason reports of abuse have been declining.

But that hasn’t stopped the congregants in the far right pews of the Church from insisting that it’s still all our fault.

The study, 300 pages and five years in the making, was undertaken by researchers at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. In a case of the fox paying for an investigation into the hen house break-in, the Church anted up half the $1.8 million needed for the study. As might be expected given the funding source, the report reaches a number of unusual conclusions, including the fact that a vanishingly small number of priests were actually pedophiles—just four percent of all the priests convicted of child abuse—a statistic arrived at by defining pedophilia as attraction to children aged 10 or younger. Or, in other words, by using a definition no one else uses.

But the report also dismissed the canard that the scandal had anything to do with gay priests. In fact, it says, gay priests were part of the solution to the problem. It directly correlates rise in the number of gay priests starting in the 1970s to “a decreased incidence of abuse—not an increased incidence of abuse.” Funny, we could have told them that and the church could have used the $2 million to recruit more gay priests and cut down on child abuse in the church!

Needless to say, that conclusion did not set well with that segment of the Church that seems to miss the good old days of the Inquisition.

Bill Donohue is not pleased, or his front group NOM, I’m sure. My bet is that NOM, MFC and Dradlee Dean all get their rightful place in society next to Nazi’s and the KKK as a certified hate-group this year as a result of the magnitude of disrepute as witnessed by their Paul Cameron-isms campaign against fellow members in good standing of our great state.

http://www.queerty.com/catholic-church-funded-study-declares-that-gay-priests-are-the-cure-for-the-child-abuse-scandal-not-the-cause-20110526/

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/05/27/minnesota-anti-lgbt-group-spouts-then-hides-timeworn-lies/#more-6687

the family council is a part of the American Family Association. On the splc’s hate group list.

The AFA is headquartered in Mississippi, one of the most backwards and hate filled states in the UNions. people who hate blacks and now add gays onto their chopping block.

The best analogy re having a respectful conversation with the AFA types is trying to have a respectful conversation with madmen like Saddam, Hitler, Mao etc.

they can be nice and appear very cultured. Germany btw was the most cultured nation is Europe.

But if you remember the line “love conquers all:”, for the AFA and its clones, it is simply Hate Conquers all.

Gays, blacks, prob still Jews etc. victims

And Pritchard is doing is playing “the victim card”, when in truth, it is the gays who are the victims of his sick hate.

“Sexual orientation is invariably expressed through sexual activity.”

I love the “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” Catch22 these haters have built-in to their propaganda.

If you don’t engage in the sexual activity they abhor, you can’t possibly BE the sexual orientation for which they oppose civil rights protection. You’re merely oppressed by a label, something you chose and can unchoose…

…but if you DO engage in the sexual activity, you’re a loathsome pervert who properly OUGHT to be locked-up.

[This is just like the "All sex is sinful outside of marriage/Constitutionally BAN same-sex marriage!" Scylla&Charybdis trap they also set.]

It’s all a piece of the Black/White Manachean world-view: there’s nothing they do that’s bad, because “it all lead to heaven in the end.” Whereas there’s nothing righteous that “the gays” do, because their way (whether label or activity, but most of all both) leads to hell.

It’s a rationalization for Inquisition. Or “exterminating the vermin.”

In word, it’s evil.

Mr. Pritchard: If you want to have a respectful discussion, you must:

a) pay $50 million to the family of Matthew Shepard,
b) expel any member of your organization that has not condemned, in the name of Jesus Christ, Shepard’s murder,
c) send information on any of the members of your organization whom you have expelled in b) above, and work very hard (e.g., you putting in 60 actual, billable-quality hours per week, along with every member of your organization and every member of their families) to indict, arrest, try, convict, and sentence to life imprisonment, without parole, for conspiracy to commit murder and hate crimes.

@Faithful: I am a Christian = “follower of Christ” – meaning Jesus Christ…

…and therefore, I do not obey any of the Old Testament, as that is Judaic religious law…

…but I follow Jesus Christ Himself.

I wish you would quote red-letter Scriptural quotations, Faithful, regarding what Jesus Christ Himself said specifically about same gendered relationships – because I’ve never found any…

“Sexual orientation is invariably expressed through sexual activity.”

What kind of nonsense is this? Of course, sexual orientation – whether it be heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual – may or may not be expressed through sexual activity.

Next.

The idea that the religious agenda has no insight past sex it self with marriage is a shame.

Dear Barb, cause that is who is writing there, or at least a minion of hers.

A same sex couple is looking for Marriage for the same reason a non same sex couple is.

Is there sex in marriage? yes. is there sodomy within that sex? on both sides yes. is sex the only reason for marriage? NO.

The throwing of words like Sodomy is to try and repel people. Sodomy is defined as anal and oral sex.

Any Straight couples here ever have oral sex? Anal sex? ever been in anything else besides the mission position, with the only thought through it is please let this be a baby?

1500 species have homosexual encounters and relationships.

If explored, any form of non male penis, female vagina intercourse is considered sodomy. One can debate a kiss, a rub, a touch of any kind is.

Now all these things can be considered immoral to some. Some cultures, and all of them stemming from a religious orientation, have ideas to what is and what is ok within sex.

Morality is set on a personal set of criteria. and can not be indoctrinated. I will never follow your morality set, I will never follow your God.

sex between two consulting (note consulting) Adults (note adult) is legal.

the binding love, that is felt and joined into a family unit and the legal rights that come from the legal documents that are signed are what marriage is about.

I can get ordained online to preform the ritual ceremony of marriage. But no one is married till the non religious documents of the state are signed.

Theoacme, Matthew Sheppherd? What about all those Gays have killed? Yes it’s happened, it happened around the same time of Shepherd. We are all victims.

[...] teaming up with questionable allies. Earlier this year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that materials on the organization’s website accused gays of [...]

[...] teaming up with questionable allies. Earlier this year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that materials on the organization’s website accused gays of [...]

[...] teaming up with questionable allies. Earlier this year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that materials on the organization’s website accused gays of [...]

[...] teaming up with questionable allies. Earlier this year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that materials on the organization's website accused gays of pedophilia, [...]

[...] year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that [...]

[...] teaming up with questionable allies. Earlier this year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that materials on the organization’s website accused gays of [...]

[...] teaming up with questionable allies. Earlier this year, the Minnesota Family Council was rightfully criticized after it was discovered that materials on the organization’s website accused gays of [...]

[...] this year, MFC was called out for having materials on its webpage that accused gays of pedophilia, bestiality, and the consuming of bodily wastes. [...]