Comments on: MnIndy interview: Jeff Sharlet on what Palin means to evangelicals (and how liberals are helping her)

By: city kid

city kid — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:45:50 +0000

Thank you for the response, Eric. It is illuminating.
I am pleased to hear that Minneapolis residents do not feel put upon, in general. Even so, as a national conversation, I think that places like Miami, Detroit and New Orleans may have different feelings. Also, while the DFL is Democratic, it is somewhat different from the national party, without the Farm Labor history. If I am not mistaken, even taking Minneapolis, the widening gap between rich and poor can be seen in the wealth disparity between the city and it's surrounding suburbs (I believe Rev.Jesse Jackson recently said it is within the top ten in the United States). As wonderful as Minneapolis may be, there must be places that the foreclosures are hitting disproportionally hard with those statistics, and perhaps they are getting less attention.
As to the “L” word, I can't explain how Americans have been sold on the bill of goods that argues America is a “Christian Nation” founded on Christianity. It seems there is a pretty good counter-argument that the United States is a Liberal nation, due to the importance of the Enlightenment philosophers. The original settlers may have been content with their Biblical doctrines, but those credited with being the “Founding Fathers” were no more content with them than they were with being a part of England. I would think that Americans should be proud of liberalism, not ashamed of it. If Democrats can't find a proud counter-narrative for their liberalism, it is hard to see them as being capable of defending anything. If there is a culture war, why does it seem like there is only side on the battlefield?

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality.”
— George Washington

By: Eric Ferguson

Eric Ferguson — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 04:47:49 +0000

I don't know City Kid. I live in Minneapolis, I'm active in the DFL, and I don't feel like it's just a suburban party. I understand what you're saying, and I too get tired of “small town values” being more “honest” or “real” than mine. I don't see the DFL doing that though. Maybe it's just that nationally, Democrats are so dominant in the big cities, that we just focus elsewhere. Maybe to some degree it's like Norwegians telling Norwegian jokes. They may not always like it, but they don't feel put upon in general.

On the refusal to use the word “liberal” though, you're right. I wish everyone on the left side of the political spectrum would realize you're going to be called “liberal” anyway, so just stop trying to find other labels. That just helps making the “L word” charge stick.

By: Eric Ferguson

Eric Ferguson — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 04:41:52 +0000

Hopefully no one will mind me linking to a competing site. According to Tony Knowles, who was governor at the time, the reason Alaska passed the law requiring municipalities to pay for rape victims' medical exams was one town was charging victims — Wassila, while Palin was mayor. http://www.twincities.com/ci_10438129?source=mo...

By: city kid

city kid — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:28:38 +0000

I wonder if any of the liberals discussed actually call themselves liberals, or if they would call themselves “progressives?” It seems that, although Democrats like to blame the Republicans for making liberal a dirty word, they don't recognize the way Democrats have adopted their dynamic.
I agree with much of what Mr. Sharlet says, but, to me, this “Culture war” is almost purely “Anti-urbanism.” But, much like how they have fought to redeem the word liberal, Democrats simply disassociate themselves from urban residents, and try to steal the Republican dynamic of “Small town” good, “Big city” bad. Even with a candidate who tauted himself as a community organizer on the Southside of Chicago, there is no effort to confront this dynamic.
Should urban liberals be finding themselves a party that doesn't wish they would just go away, and welcome the gentrification of their traditional communities, and displacement? The progressive “Movement” seems entirely suburban, to me. Urban issues seem completely foreign and utterly distasteful to them. They don't seem to want to engage over these, but would rather sit on the fence between urban and rural… The problem being that the densest population centers are without representation, losing public education and watching our infra-structure litterally fall out underneath us (I-35).

By: Eric Ferguson

Eric Ferguson — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:12:28 +0000

Just so we're clear, charging rape victims was the town's policy while Palin was the mayor. Maybe the chief was the public backer of the policy, but she was his boss and could have changed the policy. She didn't. That's the fact.

Though maybe Woot you should go back to insulting other people's intelligence. That might persuade me.

By: whitewidow

whitewidow — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:31:18 +0000

You are an obvious troll, and as such are impervious to facts, but for the sake of anyone else reading here.

The victims were charged for the rape kit. Only IF the state can collect restitution from the perpetrator, IT there is an arrest, IF there is a trial, IF there is a conviction, would the victim be reimbursed, and then only IF they can get the money from the convicted rapist.

The total cost to Wasilla for these forensic exams is less the Palin billed the state for living in her own house.

That is about as cold and heartless as a policy can be. Sarah Palin hired the guy, supervised the guy, supported the guy. The buck stops where?

By: Woot!

Woot! — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:36:20 +0000

Molly, I'm guessing you must have attended a public school. I'm sorry, there were a lot of big words in that newspaper article. Tthe sentence you want also has a couple of big people words in it, but you really do need to know what was said.

Have someone read this for you.

"Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing."

That person can also assure you that Sarah Palin is not mentioned in any way, shape or form. Not that it would mean anything one way or another if she had been.

By: Molly Priesmeyer

Molly Priesmeyer — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:05:48 +0000

Right. Fannon, whom Palin hired and repeatedly said it was the best decision she ever made, didn't want all victims of violent attacks, those who are beaten and/or robbed, to pay for their forensic kits. He only wanted this burden to fall on the victims of rape. Even after this issue, Palin continued to tout Fannon as her best hire.

By: Woot!

Woot! — Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:45:01 +0000

"There are, similarly, the stories about her requiring rape victims to pay for their own rape kits."

Stories that have been completely fabricated and regurgitated by lefty websites...like this one, for instance.

Would a few, hard facts upset your cart too much?

How about the unedited newspaper story that is at the crux of the issue.

'Knowles signs sexual assault bill
Published on Monday, May 22, 2000 9:00 PM AKDT
JO C. GOODE / The Frontiersman / May 23, 2000

ANCHORAGE - Gov. Tony Knowles recently signed legislation protecting victims of sexual assault from being billed for tests to collect evidence of the crime, but one local police chief said the new law will further burden taxpayers.

The governor signed House Bill 270, sponsored by Rep. Eric Croft, D-Anchorage, outside the Sexual Assault Response Team (SART) exam room at Alaska Regional Hospital. In attendance at the signing were members of victims advocate groups, law enforcement agencies and legislators.

The new law makes it illegal for any law enforcement agency to bill victims or victims insurance companies for the costs of examinations that take place to collect evidence of a sexual assault or determine if a sexual assault did occur.

We would never bill the victim of a burglary for fingerprinting and photographing the crime scene, or for the cost of gathering other evidence, Knowles said. Nor should we bill rape victims just because the crime scene happens to be their bodies.

While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.

Wasilla Police Chief Charlie Fannon does not agree with the new legislation, saying the law will require the city and communities to come up with more funds to cover the costs of the forensic exams.

In the past we've charged the cost of exams to the victims insurance company when possible. I just dont want to see any more burden put on the taxpayer, Fannon said.

According to Fannon, the new law will cost the Wasilla Police Department approximately $5,000 to $14,000 a year to collect evidence for sexual assault cases.

Ultimately it is the criminal who should bear the burden of the added costs, Fannon said.

The forensic exam is just one part of the equation. Id like to see the courts make these people pay restitution for these things, Fannon said.

Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing.

Palmer police chief Laren Zager said that to his knowledge, no sexual assault victim has ever been billed by the city of Palmer for an exam to collect evidence of a crime. Zager, who has been police chief since January, said he would never expect a victim to be burdened with the cost of a police investigation.

Im prepared to pay every dime in an investigation. As long as I am chief, I would never bill a victim, Zager said.

The new bill would also make law enforcement agencies that are investigating a sexual assault responsible for the costs of testing victims for sexually transmitted diseases and emergency contraception."

Palin didn't have anything to do with the issue at all. And the Chief of police expliticy said it was the rapist he was after, not the victim.

"Fannon said he intends to include the cost of exams required to collect evidence in a restitution request as a part of a criminals sentencing. "

By regurgitating such blatently distorted fables, especially ones that are as easily refuted as this one, I wonder if you will realize that the harm you do to your credibility is inversely proportional to the strength you lend to your would-be targets?

And didn't I read something about a code of "journalistic ethics" around here somewhere? Big words, those; yup big. words.