Ellison’s oath on Koran roils conservatives

What is this country coming to? I don’t  understand what this country is coming to.  Why should we allow someone in a government position, a government mind you that was founded on CHRISTianity, to be sworn in on anything other than the Bible.  This country has lost its roots.  We were founded on CHRISTian beliefs and principles.  If you can not uphold those beliefs and principles you should not hold a government office.

Maybe these people should check out their copies (ha!) of the Constitution The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but _no religious Test shall ever be required_ as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
  Constitution – Article 6

Still, if they want… I mean, I figure if a witness wants to swear on a Bible, etc., why not because many like it as an indication of solemnity.

Do they still say “Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?”

“So help me God.”

Uh, not so much I’m not saying that there aren’t a lot of people who agree with you, but many evangelical Christians like myself don’t agree with that statement, since the Islamic understanding of Allah describes him in ways fundamentally different from the God of the Bible.
So, um, yes, many people say what you’re saying, but many adherents to those religions disagree. So I wouldn’t be quite so patronizing (“you need to check that out”) and using all-caps.

And, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed are all prophets of one lineage in Muslim thought, but certainly not Christian thought and almost certainly not Jewish thought. I think Jews would have to reject the Biblical Jesus because he affirmed his deity (they could conceivably embrace a version of his life story that is not Biblical). Christians reject Mohammed because, for instance, he didn’t preach the Biblical Christ (i.e. the one that made exclusive claims, such as “no one comes to the Father but through me”), so–

I wouldn’t say that you’re reflecting mainstream Christian or Jewish thinking here.

Just a thought.

As a matter of fact, that’s what I tell people all the time You’re right, I always tell people that, because I’m a conservative. Thanks for basically dissing everyone that has a different political view than you do, especially since all conservatives are Christians, right, yeah.

Haha! Communist! Marxist!

Kidding, just adding to informed discussion ;-)

It’s just that the “opiate of the people” is a Marx quote (or is it Engels? I don’t remember) and that made me laugh, thinking of the possible accusations. I’m not serious.

But, but, but! “No religious test…”

Oh, nevermind. I’m a conservative and an evangelical, myself, but I mean, come on, why would us Christians want Muslims swearing in on a Bible they don’t believe in?

“If you can not uphold those beliefs and principles you should not hold a government office.”

And with that, my friend, I have to ask where us where we Christians get off saying things like that. We’re living in a democratic republic (not like China, you know what I mean) and we elect people to government office. The Constitution says “no religious test”  which means, if I translate correctly from 1787 English, “no religious test”.

A bit more complicated Certainly Christians claim that their god is the same god as that of the Jews and even have incorporated the Jewish Bible as their “old testament”.  However, the Christian concept of the trinity puts that on shaky ground as there is no equivalent concept in Judaism. 

…wow… when i am sworn in (which will probably be never), i’m going to swear on a copy of “1984″.  it feels pretty relevant, considering what politics today is becoming.

Crazy, crazy people I find the outrage over this completely ridiculous.  We are guaranteed the freedom of religous expression, part of which includes the swearing into the oath of office. 

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” 

By demanding that people take the oath of office using only the Christian Bible we are abridging the 1st  Amendment rights of people.

Perhaps the most scathing article, can be found here:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2006/11/28/america,_not_keith_ellison,_decides_what_book_a_congressman_takes_his_oath_on

Also, a side note from someone who studied religion extensively from childhood to college.  Thank you for saying Christian Bible and Hebrew Bible rather than Old and New Testaments. 

dum, dum, dum Besides the whole “racist” angle here, isn’t the point to swearing on a bible or whatever that you’re going to be held accountable by YOUR highest authority?

If he does decide to swear on the bible, that would mean the oath carries no weight whatsoever because that’s not even his god. The oath itself would be worth as much as the paper he swears on.

according to think progress http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/30/koran-bible-prager-ellison/

there is no bookfor congress except as a photo op:

But Prager’s column is based on one other glaring error: the swearing-in ceremony for the House of Representatives never includes a religious book. The Office of the House Clerk confirmed to ThinkProgress that the swearing-in ceremony consists only of the Members raising their right hands and swearing to uphold the Constitution. The Clerk spokesperson said neither the Christian Bible, nor any other religious text, had ever been used in an official capacity during the ceremony. (Occassionally, Members pose for symbolic photo-ops with their hand on a Bible.)

These aren’t conservatives – these are theocrats Dennis Prager is no conservative – he’s a theocrat – and this was an excellent article, except for identifying the people this concerned as “conservatives.”

Moronic Culture Warriors Congressman Ellison is fully within his rights to swear or affirm on his chosen holy book. As a Jew, I wouldn’t swear on a New Testament (and no one would believe), so why should he?

It’s never easy being the first — reminds me of the racist comments from when the first English Jewish members were elected to Britain’s Parliament!

Thanks Minnesotan’s We citizens of the rest of the country are wondering if something is in the water up there in Minnesota. First you elect Jesse Ventura for Governor, who’s got the mental capacity of a box of rocks. and now you give America Keith Ellison, the first Muslim who refuses to use the Bible and opts for the Koran. Has there ever been a member of Congress that has demanded this before? No. Thanks Minnesotan’s for dumping one of your favorite sons on the rest of us.
  According to thereligionofpeace.com: “In his official biography, Ellison claims that he hasn’t eaten pork or drunk alcohol since converting to Islam at the age of 19, and has always found time to pray toward Mecca five times a day.  That’s nice.  Since his religious epiphany he’s also picked up at least 40 unpaid parking tickets, 17 moving violations, one failure of a breathalyzer test at a traffic stop, and two suspensions of his driver’s license.  He’s also somehow found the time to climb up off the prayer mat and into bed with at least one mistress, and there are credible allegations of more. He has openly supported a string of convicted cop killers, known racial separatists and at least one domestic terrorist.  This is in addition to the virulently anti-Semitic comments that he made while working for the Nation of Islam (an organization that believes white people were created in a laboratory by an evil scientist). Sounds like the perfect candidate for Congress.

Yeah We have freedom of religion… unless it’s a different religion than most conservatives.  I guess you have the freedom of being Catholic or Protestant.

NOPE _ it’s the SAME GOD NO no no… 

it’s the SAME GOD…

Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same deity.

They just use different names and rituals. And longer time lines.

Moses, Jesus, Mohammed were all prophets of one lineage.

You need to check that out.

Very happy to be in the bluest state In Rhode Island, when public officials are sworn in, the use of any book is optional.  They can use the Verizon Superpages if they wanted.

In District Court, people are sworn to testify but no Bible or any other book is used.  That’s how it should be.  You are not being tested on your faith but merely your version of events.

Founding Fathers say – not required! Constitution of the United States: Art VI, Para 3

“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

Oh Christ, get over it…*g* If religion is the opiate of the people, then to paraphrase Huey Lewis….he needs a new drug.  Prager gives a lot of conservatives a bad name, but I guesss when you support governmental intrusion into individuals private lifes, you sorta give up on the right to be called a conservative

zzzzzzzz zzzz… uhh what, oh its those lies and distortions all over again, just catching up on your right wing talking points?  that’s funny and just a bit pathetic.

can we repeat again that no one officially gets sworn in on anything?  the bibles etc that people talk about are just photo opts.  They get sworn in as a group by simply raising their right hand and promising to uphold the constitution.  Something that ya’ll wingers need to read from time to time.

yep just do a little research on Abraham.  Same “One God” different takes on profits

you all should go to the townhall.com web site and look up this article.  read some of the comments. the racist, bigoted, small minded wacko’s there…. oh my. these people are scary. thank God(which ever you choose) these people lost the election.

Koran? Fine, sure, whatever. Keith X can swear his oath on any book he chooses….but I think that a thick stack of Marvel comics would have been more appropriate.

Crazy, crazy people I find the outrage over this completely ridiculous.  We are guaranteed the freedom of religous expression, part of which includes the swearing into the oath of office. 

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” 

By demanding that people take the oath of office using only the Christian Bible we are abridging the 1st  Amendment rights of people.

Perhaps the most scathing article, can be found here:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2006/11/28/america,_not_keith_ellison,_decides_what_book_a_congressman_takes_his_oath_on

Also, a side note from someone who studied religion extensively from childhood to college.  Thank you for saying Christian Bible and Hebrew Bible rather than Old and New Testaments. 

Very happy to be in the bluest state In Rhode Island, when public officials are sworn in, the use of any book is optional.  They can use the Verizon Superpages if they wanted.

In District Court, people are sworn to testify but no Bible or any other book is used.  That's how it should be.  You are not being tested on your faith but merely your version of events.

dum, dum, dum Besides the whole “racist” angle here, isn't the point to swearing on a bible or whatever that you're going to be held accountable by YOUR highest authority?

If he does decide to swear on the bible, that would mean the oath carries no weight whatsoever because that's not even his god. The oath itself would be worth as much as the paper he swears on.

according to think progress http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/30/koran-bible-prager-ellison/

there is no bookfor congress except as a photo op:

But Prager's column is based on one other glaring error: the swearing-in ceremony for the House of Representatives never includes a religious book. The Office of the House Clerk confirmed to ThinkProgress that the swearing-in ceremony consists only of the Members raising their right hands and swearing to uphold the Constitution. The Clerk spokesperson said neither the Christian Bible, nor any other religious text, had ever been used in an official capacity during the ceremony. (Occassionally, Members pose for symbolic photo-ops with their hand on a Bible.)

Moronic Culture Warriors Congressman Ellison is fully within his rights to swear or affirm on his chosen holy book. As a Jew, I wouldn't swear on a New Testament (and no one would believe), so why should he?

It's never easy being the first — reminds me of the racist comments from when the first English Jewish members were elected to Britain's Parliament!

Koran? Fine, sure, whatever. Keith X can swear his oath on any book he chooses….but I think that a thick stack of Marvel comics would have been more appropriate.

Yeah We have freedom of religion… unless it's a different religion than most conservatives.  I guess you have the freedom of being Catholic or Protestant.

NOPE _ it's the SAME GOD NO no no… 

it's the SAME GOD…

Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same deity.

They just use different names and rituals. And longer time lines.

Moses, Jesus, Mohammed were all prophets of one lineage.

You need to check that out.

you all should go to the townhall.com web site and look up this article.  read some of the comments. the racist, bigoted, small minded wacko's there…. oh my. these people are scary. thank God(which ever you choose) these people lost the election.

Maybe these people should check out their copies (ha!) of the Constitution The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but _no religious Test shall ever be required_ as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
  Constitution – Article 6

Founding Fathers say – not required! Constitution of the United States: Art VI, Para 3

“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

yep just do a little research on Abraham.  Same “One God” different takes on profits

Oh Christ, get over it…*g* If religion is the opiate of the people, then to paraphrase Huey Lewis….he needs a new drug.  Prager gives a lot of conservatives a bad name, but I guesss when you support governmental intrusion into individuals private lifes, you sorta give up on the right to be called a conservative

These aren't conservatives – these are theocrats Dennis Prager is no conservative – he's a theocrat – and this was an excellent article, except for identifying the people this concerned as “conservatives.”

Thanks Minnesotan's We citizens of the rest of the country are wondering if something is in the water up there in Minnesota. First you elect Jesse Ventura for Governor, who's got the mental capacity of a box of rocks. and now you give America Keith Ellison, the first Muslim who refuses to use the Bible and opts for the Koran. Has there ever been a member of Congress that has demanded this before? No. Thanks Minnesotan's for dumping one of your favorite sons on the rest of us.
  According to thereligionofpeace.com: “In his official biography, Ellison claims that he hasn't eaten pork or drunk alcohol since converting to Islam at the age of 19, and has always found time to pray toward Mecca five times a day.  That's nice.  Since his religious epiphany he's also picked up at least 40 unpaid parking tickets, 17 moving violations, one failure of a breathalyzer test at a traffic stop, and two suspensions of his driver's license.  He's also somehow found the time to climb up off the prayer mat and into bed with at least one mistress, and there are credible allegations of more. He has openly supported a string of convicted cop killers, known racial separatists and at least one domestic terrorist.  This is in addition to the virulently anti-Semitic comments that he made while working for the Nation of Islam (an organization that believes white people were created in a laboratory by an evil scientist). Sounds like the perfect candidate for Congress.

…wow… when i am sworn in (which will probably be never), i'm going to swear on a copy of “1984″.  it feels pretty relevant, considering what politics today is becoming.

zzzzzzzz zzzz… uhh what, oh its those lies and distortions all over again, just catching up on your right wing talking points?  that's funny and just a bit pathetic.

can we repeat again that no one officially gets sworn in on anything?  the bibles etc that people talk about are just photo opts.  They get sworn in as a group by simply raising their right hand and promising to uphold the constitution.  Something that ya'll wingers need to read from time to time.

A bit more complicated Certainly Christians claim that their god is the same god as that of the Jews and even have incorporated the Jewish Bible as their “old testament”.  However, the Christian concept of the trinity puts that on shaky ground as there is no equivalent concept in Judaism. 

What is this country coming to? I don't  understand what this country is coming to.  Why should we allow someone in a government position, a government mind you that was founded on CHRISTianity, to be sworn in on anything other than the Bible.  This country has lost its roots.  We were founded on CHRISTian beliefs and principles.  If you can not uphold those beliefs and principles you should not hold a government office.

Still, if they want… I mean, I figure if a witness wants to swear on a Bible, etc., why not because many like it as an indication of solemnity.

Do they still say “Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?”

“So help me God.”

Uh, not so much I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people who agree with you, but many evangelical Christians like myself don't agree with that statement, since the Islamic understanding of Allah describes him in ways fundamentally different from the God of the Bible.

So, um, yes, many people say what you're saying, but many adherents to those religions disagree. So I wouldn't be quite so patronizing (“you need to check that out”) and using all-caps.

And, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed are all prophets of one lineage in Muslim thought, but certainly not Christian thought and almost certainly not Jewish thought. I think Jews would have to reject the Biblical Jesus because he affirmed his deity (they could conceivably embrace a version of his life story that is not Biblical). Christians reject Mohammed because, for instance, he didn't preach the Biblical Christ (i.e. the one that made exclusive claims, such as “no one comes to the Father but through me”), so–

I wouldn't say that you're reflecting mainstream Christian or Jewish thinking here.

Just a thought.

As a matter of fact, that's what I tell people all the time You're right, I always tell people that, because I'm a conservative. Thanks for basically dissing everyone that has a different political view than you do, especially since all conservatives are Christians, right, yeah.

Haha! Communist! Marxist!

Kidding, just adding to informed discussion ;-)

It's just that the “opiate of the people” is a Marx quote (or is it Engels? I don't remember) and that made me laugh, thinking of the possible accusations. I'm not serious.

But, but, but! “No religious test…”

Oh, nevermind. I'm a conservative and an evangelical, myself, but I mean, come on, why would us Christians want Muslims swearing in on a Bible they don't believe in?

“If you can not uphold those beliefs and principles you should not hold a government office.”

And with that, my friend, I have to ask where us where we Christians get off saying things like that. We're living in a democratic republic (not like China, you know what I mean) and we elect people to government office. The Constitution says “no religious test”  which means, if I translate correctly from 1787 English, “no religious test”.