Bachmann at a Family Research Council event
Bachmann at a Family Research Council event

Religious right rushes to Bachmann’s defense following ‘ex-gay’ reports

By Andy Birkey
Wednesday, July 13, 2011 at 4:25 pm

Several religious right groups — including those listed as anti-gay hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center — rushed to Michele Bachmann’s defense following reports that she and her husband Marcus’ Christian counseling clinic performs therapy intended to cure homosexuality. The groups argued that the controversial therapy is successful and that media reports of the practices of Bachmann’s clinic amount to anti-Christian bias.

Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council, which has been listed as a “hate group” by the SPLC, appeared on MSNBC alongside Log Cabin Republicans executive director R. Clarke Cooper.

“If this is indeed a Christian counseling center then is should not be surprising that the counselors help clients live their lives constituent with Christian values,” Sprigg said.

But Cooper thought the news could spell trouble for Bachmann’s presidential campaign.

“It will hurt her… If voters see the Republican Party, if they see us as intolerant and attacking a certain population of fellow Americans, it’s not a winning combination. I’m not the only one who says this. There are many other strategists that, regardless of their orientation, are concerned that we could lose the voters that we gained in the 2010 election cycle.”

The head of FRC, Tony Perkins, also defended Bachmann in a press release on Tuesday.

“Apart from Washington, D.C., and homosexual interest groups, the majority of the country will view Marcus’s work for what it is, a ministry of hope,” he said. “Pointing men and women who struggle with same-sex attractions to God isn’t ‘a discredited form of therapy,’ it’s the path to sexual healing. And it’s capable of bringing thousands of people out of bondage and into healthy behavior and a fuller relationship with Christ.”

Peter LaBarbera of Americans for the Truth about Homosexuality blasted ABC News’ report, which featured undercover video from Truth Wins Out, a group that opposes such “ex-gay” therapy. AFTAH, too, is considered an anti-gay hate group by the SPLC.

“Folks, it sure didn’t take long for the liberal media to go into Christian-bashing mode against GOP presidential candidate Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.),” LaBarbera said in a statement. He called ABC’s report, a “comically biased hit-piece by ABC’s Brian Ross — featuring the militantly anti-Christian homosexual organization Truth Wins Out.”

The conservative Accuracy in the Media calls Ross’ piece a “pathetic hit job” and characterizes homosexuality as a “disease-ridden lifestyle.”

In AIM’s piece, LaBarbera is quoted, likening being gay or lesbian to drug addiction: “We don’t mock the idea of leaving drug addiction or alcoholism with God’s help. Why is it acceptable to mock faith in God to overcome unwanted behaviors like homosexuality in their lives?”

David Brody of Pat Robertson’s CBN News — a part of Robertson’s 700 Club empire — also spoke out against the news reports.

“[ABC's] crew decided to do an ‘undercover investigation’ about the use of reparative therapy at the Christian clinic owned by Michele and Marcus Bachmann. It is designed to convert gays back to heterosexuality through prayer and a therapeutic clinical process,” he wrote. “First of all, you’re kidding me right? They did an undercover investigation to make the point that the healing power of Jesus Christ can transform lives? That’s what passes for an undercover investigation nowadays? Oy-gevalt.”

Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays, a group that encourages gays to attempt to become straight, criticized the reports as well.

“The Bachmann incident demonstrates that as homosexuals gain more civil rights, heterosexuals are losing theirs,” wrote Greg Quinlan, the group’s head. “Because gays are a wealthy and politically powerful minority, they claim access to media attention, political power and corporate influence that middle America does not have.”

He continued, “Wayne Besen of the hate group Truth Wins Out, and other modern day Sauls, stalk and expose ‘out’ ex-gays in a negative light to ensure that they retreat back into the closet. Lambda Legal supports the establishment of GLBT Centers at public universities but blocks any attempt at ex-gay equal access. Corporate shareholder resolutions to include ex-gays in anti-discrimination policies are repeatedly defeated by the gay community.”

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Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 5:02 pm

….that these bigots rush to the aid of Bachmann is all I need to know about her and her Medicaid rich husband!

Jeff Wilfahrt
Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 6:14 pm

Wayne +1, proof positive given.

Jeff Wilfahrt, Rosemount, MN

Scott Rose
Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 6:55 pm

Why do you quote these fatuous religious loons in a newspaper article, as though their “opinions” on what are, in fact, medical matters were valid? Do you maybe extensively quote the schlock science racial theories of white supremacists? No. You do not. The point with Marcus Bachmann’s business is that he very intentionally attempts to convey that his center is medically approved. He refers to himself as a “clinical therapist” though he has no certification. This is what in common parlance is called quackery. It doesn’t matter how many ignorant vicious anti-gay bigots you would quote about the quackery; it is in an objective sense quackery. Other similar baloney of which modern medical science does not approve is the exorcising of demons from witches and penis enhancement pills. Would this newspaper quote from hucksters who sell penis enhancement pills, as though their word were of value, as if they had credibility? Many anti-gay bigots mendaciously claim the title of “Christian” and label gay rights advocates anti-Christian; that is utter bunk. Luther, Presbyterian and Episcopal Churches ordain out married gay and lesbian ministers. Anti-gay bigots do not have an exclusive claim on Christianity, and supporters of LGBT equality are not anti-Christian.

Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 7:49 pm

Hiding behind patient confidentiality is bogus. Clinic’s list and advertise their services legally everyday in America. She’s refusing to answer the question because reparative therapy has been denounced as dangerous and unethical.

Marie Cohn
Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 7:58 pm

Well said, gentlemen. Jews, too, love the gays, generally, and find this reparative therapy anything but therapeutic. Perhaps the most upsetting element of this entire sordid affair is that Mrs Congresswoman Bachmann and her fabulous husband would be the first to stand and shout epithets at the Muslim Therapy Center…. As an American Jew, it offends us that the U.S. is still thought of in some circles as a Christian nation, without much thought being given to what that really means to a lots of its citizens and residents. Bravo, gentlemen.
Marie Cohn
St Paul, MN

Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 8:00 pm

I’m tired of those who disagree with the homosexual agenda always being called haters and bigots. Some are, some are not. Don’t tack the name on just because you don’t like what they present. If those who disagree with the homosexual agenda are for that reason haters, then by the same logic those who disagree with the traditional marriage only view are also haters.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 8:49 pm

…and fraud.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 8:58 pm

Bachmann Gave To MN Addiction Recovery Center Credited With ExorcismsIn

April 2009, the Minnesota Independent covered MN congresswoman Michele Bachmann’s donation of over $9,000 to Minnesota Teen Challenge, a faith-based addiction recovery program which has received over 10 million dollars in government funding according to a January 2010 story by the Minnesota Independent’s Andy Birkey. Teen Challenge is an outreach ministry under the Pentecostal denomination the Assemblies of God.

What sort of addiction recovery treatment does Minnesota Teen Challenge offer? 2001 MTC graduate Brandon Barthrop, who now runs a non-traditional inner-city ministry, credits his successful recovery from drugs, satanism, and “warlocky” to a Minnesota Teen Challenge regimen involving the exorcism of myriad demon spirits.

Comment posted July 13, 2011 @ 10:22 pm

Why call our opponents bigots? What else do you call people who want the law to penalize a class of people just for being who they are?

E Oppenheimer
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 12:36 am

1. To Minnesota Indy and its readers: Let’s stop using the word “homosexual.” It has its roots, incorrectly, in pathology and demeans the fullness of individuals who identify as gay or lesbian. Just as the English language changed from calling women “girls” and calling African Americans “colored,” so too there is a need to change or “update” the language here.

2. A minority group that historically and over many generations has experienced oppression, discrimination, and persecution is not “taking away rights” from the majority culture: it is about removing barriers in order to provide “liberty and justice for all.” Providing freedom from oppression for gays and lesbians as a group doesn’t force anyone into any sort of jail cell, metaphorically or otherwise.

Cullen Kehoe
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 1:28 am

I think Michele Bachmann is awesome. She represents my faith and my culture. I am not a hater though, I love God with all my heart.

We should remember a few things. There is no gay gene. Despite countless efforts to find something genetic or science-based that makes someone gay, it hasn’t been found. Gay people claim to be born that way but there is no proof.

So you are left with what you believe. One person believes folks are born gay with no verifiable proof. I believe being gay is a choice, but my faith is derived from God’s Word in the Bible. So we have to agree to disagree on this topic. But don’t call me a bigot because that is groundless (since you have no proof to backup your belief that people are born gay).

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 5:33 am


And I’ll ask the question for about the millionth time:

Please tell me about the “homosexual agenda”. You guys continually float this phrase as if its meaning were common knowledge to everyone and yet every time – EVERY-SINGLE-TIME I’ve asked one of you to explain it’s meaning, we get silence. Enlighten us all. What is it? Why is it so terrible to the rest of society?

Jared? Are you listening? We want a definition because you obviously are oh-so knowledgeable on the subject. Please share you infinite wisdom.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 6:03 am

E Oppenheimer, I agree with you re: usage of the word “homosexual.” However, if you look closely at the reporting, MNIndy does not use this word except in the context of actual guotes which is as it should be. You’ll also notice that those commenters who use this word tend to be anti-gay.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 7:09 am

Jared i understand your point
but you left out a major group of people
and that is many people just don’t care one way or the other
for me it doesn’t bother me if two people want to get married

and i believe we have many more issues that are way far more important to deal with

i also believe that the gay community should fight this tooth and nail

we need to change how we think in this country

in my opinion there are many bigots out there

myself i think i need to speak up and say as a hetro sexual person “i don’t have a problem with it ” maybe more people like me will then stand up also and we can move on instead of always being stuck in grid lock

i don’t mean to offend anyone
but its like roger clemens and barry bonds using steroids
we are wasting millions of dollars in tax payer money to decide ,in what i call a non issue
and i think if two people want to get married is a non issue to most people
except for the people who want to get married and then the bigots ,who push their own ideology on to every one else
we are all different , lets as a society , except that and move on so we can all live

one more point is i have a friend who is gay he is such a good person and has contributed to our society like no other and he is capable of making good choices when it comes to his life so just leave him alone and let him live the life he chooses

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 7:34 am

..and THIS is what you get with religious wackjobs out there who claim to know/speak for a GOD, a Man attacks 2 lesbians with knife,kills one….Cause well, GAWD told him too:

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 8:43 am

@ Cullen –

Would you be able to tell me where in the bible God teaches that homosexuality is a choice?

Dog is my Shepherd
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 8:54 am

“If this is indeed a Christian counseling center then …” any Medicaid payments received by the “clinic” are based on fraudulent misrepresentation? Seems like Clarke Cooper hit the proverbial nail on the head, in spite of himself.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 9:35 am

The Family Leader – Strengthening our families by trying to destroy yours.”

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 9:39 am

“I think Michele Bachmann is awesome. She represents my faith and my culture”

Bearing false witness is a part of your faith and culture? Good to know.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 9:40 am

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 ~They exchanged~ the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 9:41 am

Why is no-one ripping on these guys for trespassing lying and getting this information under false pretenses?

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 10:52 am


As your allowed to spout your hatred, or spout your religious beliefs of choice in public (ones I do not and have a right to not to follow as an American, in other words, I do not share your god) the people have the right to investigative transparent practices in our medical world.

This council service has the right to try and pray the gay away, if thats what you advertise, and do NOT take tax dollars paid medicare for, especially when the owner has denounce the use of medicare. And does not call it self a medical clinic, this clinic is not practicing the regulated medical practices that are put in place.

Call it a pray the gay chapel, but it is NOT a medical center at all.

Free speech, is why .

The constitution is why.

Its legal to be gay Simon, perhaps not by your choice of religion, but it is allowed to be gay. You must accept that.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 10:54 am

oh simon by the way

reparative therapy has been denounced as dangerous and unethical. By every single noted and regulated medical association on the planet.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:00 am


oh by the way investigative services are showing that Bachmann is not even licenced or is credited to be treating anyone for any services it seems.

Perhaps we should Not look into anyone’s credentials? perhaps brain surgery should just go about being done with anyone putting out a shingle and saying hey I can pray the tumor out of your head!

Simon, by the way, if we can pray the gay away, could I start a pray circle and make you gay?

Paul Schmelzer
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:13 am

Commenter “Dave”: The reason your comments aren’t appearing is because you’re in repeat violation of our comment policies and have been banned. We accept all kinds of comments, pro-LGBT and anti-, but we require comments to be respectful and free from obscenity. Goodbye.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:17 am

Michele Bachmann and her husband are both very far out. Not good for the U.S. She is running on the “gay agenda” platform. We are closing schools, laying people off. Family’s are being foreclosed on and being put out in the streets. And all this Republican running for President and her husband can do is talk about is “praying away the gay”. It is a good money maker, but we have bigger things to do, and I am hopping God has to. If you or your church has the gay agenda on your mind, all the time you may need to set down and talk. We need to start looking at what is best for the country.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:20 am

@ Cullen, there is no straight gene either. How do you know you are actually straight then???

Study: Sexuality in Lesbians Is Based on Genes
By Andi Alexander

Gay men are more likely than lesbians to show gender-nonconforming traits during childhood, according to a new study by Queen Mary University in London.

Research following children to adulthood shows that 50%-80% of gender-nonconforming boys grow up to be gay. Meanwhile, only about one-third of nonconforming girls become lesbians.

Psychologists Andrea Burri and Qazi Rahman report that genes may be partially responsible for nonconforming traits as well as sexual orientation.

Burri and Rahman followed a group of 4,000 women who were part of pairs of twins. After asking about their sexual attractions, behavior, and gender nonconformity, the team found genetic influences on orientation (25%) and childhood gender nonconformity (31%).

Ultimately, there is a connection between mental traits and sexual orientation development.

“There is an association between these psychological traits and sexual orientation because they all develop under common biological drivers, like the development of brain regions under the influence of genes and sex hormones,” explained Rahman.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:28 am

The point is not what you believe theologically. That’s up to each of us as individuals.
The point is that one group’s religious views may not dictate public policy.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:31 am

Sexual orientation can not be caught or taught.

“Family fears of catching homosexuality, or of being recruited at school
or elsewhere are utterly without scientific foundation.”
~ Dr. Jack Weinberg, President American Psychiatric Association,
October 6, 1977.

Sexual orientation is not a choice.

Sexual orientation is deep-seated and not something one chooses to be
or not to be.
~ Dr. Alan P. Bell, senior author of “Sexual Preference”, Bell, Weinberg
& Hammersmith, Indiana University Press, 1981.

Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early
in the life cycle, possibly even before birth.
~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on
Sexual Orientation, July, 1994.

It is believed that there are several factors which determine sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is likely to be the result of several different factors,
including genetic, hormonal, and environmental. None of these factors
alone are responsible for determining sexual orientation. Psychological
and social influences alone cannot cause homosexuality.
~Tineke Bodde’, “Why is My Child Gay? ” Federation of Parents and Friends
of Lesbians and Gays, Inc., 1988.

“There is evidence that parents have very little influence on the outcome
of their children’s sexual orientation under normal upbringing conditions.”
~June Machover Reinisch, Ph.D. (Response from brochure) “Why is My
Child Gay?” Federation of Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays,
Inc., 1988.

Gays & lesbians discover their sexual orientation. They are not recruited or brainwashed into the “gay lifestyle”.

Gay and lesbian children are often aware of being different at a very early
age. They generally become aware of their sexual orientation during
adolescence or early adulthood.
~ R.R. Troiden, “The Formation of Homosexual Identities”, The Journal
of Homosexuality, 17, 43-73.

Homosexuality is not a mental or emotional disorder.

The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither
mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of
our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study
documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of
judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness
all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as
~ The American Psychiatric Association and The American Psychological
Association, July 1994

Efforts to change sexual orientation are ineffective and can be harmful.

Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are
nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments.
~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on
Sexual Orientation, July, 1994.

No scientific evidence exists to support the effectiveness of any therapies
that attempt to convert homosexuals to heterosexuals.
~ John C. Gonsiorek and James D. Weinrich, eds., Homosexuality:
Research Implications for Public Policy, Newbury Park, Calf.: Sage, 1991.

All attempts fail when gay people try to become heterosexual.
~D. C. Haldeman, “The Practice and Ethics of Sexual Orientation Conversion
Therapy”, Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 62, p.221-227, 1994.

“Groups who try to change the sexual orientation of people through so-called
conversion therapy are misguided and run the risk of causing a great
deal of psychological harm to those they say they are trying to help.”
~Dr. Raymond Fowler, American Psychological Association Executive Director

Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy
may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized
homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual
orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so.
~American Psychiatric Association

The incidence of homosexuality is constant regardless of new laws or social attitudes.

It [homosexuality] is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure
which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different
moral values and standards of a particular culture.

Contrary to what some imply, the incidence of homosexuality in a population
does not appear to change with new moral codes or social mores.
~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on
Sexual Orientation, July, 1994.

Gay and lesbian people are just as capable of being good parents as are heterosexual parents.

Children who are raised in gay or lesbian homes are no different in any
aspects of psychological, social, or sexual development from children in
heterosexual families.
~C.J. Patterson, “Children of Lesbian and Gay Parents”, Child Development,
63, 1025-1042.

Thirty-five different studies have shown that children of gay and lesbian
parents are no more likely to become homosexuals than children of
heterosexuals, and are just as well adjusted.
~Jane Gross, “New Challenge of Youth: Growing up in Gay Homes”,
New York Times, February 11, 1991.

Gay men and lesbian women are rarely involved in child sexual abuse.

In the U.S. ninety percent of all sexual child abuse is committed by
heterosexual men. The molesters are almost always family members,
close family friends or the mother’s boyfriend.
~P.J. Falk “Lesbian Mothers: Psychological Assumptions in Family Law”,
American Psychologist, 44, 941-949, 1989.
~Mary Koss, et al. “No Safe Haven: Male Violence Against Women At Home,
At Work, And in the Community”,
American Psychological Association, 1994.

Gay people are not obsessed with sex.

Gay men and lesbian women share the same amount of interest in sexual
activity as heterosexual persons, neither more nor less.
~Alan P. Bell and Martin S. Weinberg, for the Institute for Sexual Research,
“Homosexuality: A Study in Human Diversity”, Simon and Schuster, 1978.

There is no single Gay Lifestyle.

The lives of gay men and lesbian women are just as varied as the lives of
~Linda D. Garnets and Douglas C. Kimmel, “Psychological Perspectives on
Lesbian and Gay Male Experiences”, Columbia University Press, 1995.

©1996-1998 C. Ann Shepherd

Now, for those that “dissagree with homosexuality” WAKE UP, BACK OFF AND LEAVE US ALONE. Your book does NOT assign you with special rights to withhold our (personal, private) civil liberties. Destroy your own relationship with your gay kids IF YOU WANT (and it will) but that is as far as your say goes.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:34 am

Maria you said i spouted hatred. Please show me where? It’s your words that are vitriolic.

They have no right to go into (trespass) PRIVATE practices under false pretenses.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:51 am

“The most important fact about ‘reparative therapy,’ also sometimes known as ‘conversion’ therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a ‘cure.’

… rejected by all the major health and mental health professions!!!

“…health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people’s sexual orientation through ‘reparative therapy’ and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.”

“Ex-gay” and anti-gay is big business. There is a huge fiscal interest in withholding information to you folks of strict faith by AFA, FRC, AFTAH, Exodus, NARTH etc…. You are being grotesquely misled by people who dont give a crap if your choice not to accept the child God gives you is completely destroyed by your efforts and actions. Perhaps you folks shouldnt be having kids if youre not willing to accept what you get.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:59 am

@ Simon, “They have no right to go into (trespass) PRIVATE practices under false pretenses.”

Nice try. Setting an appointment and paying for services renders your accusation as frivolous and rediculous. Every anti-gay snake-oil salesman first off should be willing to have their “product” evaluated and on camera and secondly, should take notice that we’ll be exposing the harmeful fraud ongoing.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 12:02 pm

Simon, it’s called journalism. It is only trespass if they were told to leave and failed to do so; I’ve not heard that allegation.

Dog is my Shepherd
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 12:18 pm

Simon, even if what these journalists did met the legal definition of trespass (which it does not), how does that change the real facts at issue: that an unlicensed quack is providing scientifically rejected “cures” and breaking the law by using (I’m assuming here, but I don’t see any other way it could happen) false statements to receive Medicaid reimbursement for these “services”?

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 12:46 pm

Wendy leigh and Marie go get them here is your chance they are on defense

don’t give them an inch

they will take ten miles

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 1:36 pm

The one breaking the law here was the undercover, they lied…likely put the visit on their medical insurance (fraud) and filmed on private property without authorization. Would any of you be okay with someone filming through your window of your house? this is no different BECAUSE it’s private property on a privately owned business.

Nothing the Bachmanns did was illegal, they tout themselves as a Christian counselor everyone knows that going in, so if you don’t want to be counseled in a manner consistent with scripture, leave!

Homosexuality may not be a choice but it is voluntary…

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 1:42 pm

Listen to the ACTUAL founder of Exodus Intl. Michael Busse (co-founder of Exodus), Darlene Bogle (a former Exodus ministries leader), and Jeremy Marks (former Exodus International and head of Courage UK) issue a public and formal apology for their work as ex-gay leaders and the harm they caused to those they tried to help.

I wonder how much Sprigg, Perkins and LaBarbara make a year to keep you in the dark???

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 1:59 pm

Simon and others:
Why do you care? How do gay people personally affect your life? If you say “I don’t know any gay people”, you’re wrong. 10% of the population is gay, lesbian or bisexual, so unless you know fewer than 10 people, you’re deceiving yourself. You are hurting people with your opinion. Gay people are not hurting you, so do what your bible says and live and let live. You’ll feel better.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 2:01 pm

Hey, found this online and it really fits Michele rather well. PATHOLOGICAL

So really, when people call her names like ‘Nut Job’ and ‘Wacko’… they aren’t too far off.

Level 1 – Pathological

The mechanisms on this level, when predominating, almost always are severely pathological. These four defenses, in conjunction, permit one to effectively rearrange external experiences to eliminate the need to cope with reality. The pathological users of these mechanisms frequently appear irrational or insane to others. These are the “psychotic” defenses, common in overt psychosis. However, they are found in dreams and throughout childhood as well.

They include:

Delusional Projection: Grossly frank delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature.

Denial: Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening; arguing against an anxiety-provoking stimulus by stating it doesn’t exist; resolution of emotional conflict and reduction of anxiety by refusing to perceive or consciously acknowledge the more unpleasant aspects of external reality.

Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs.

Splitting: A primitive defense. Negative and positive impulses are split off and unintegrated. Fundamental example: An individual views other people as either innately good or innately evil, rather than a whole continuous being.

Extreme projection: The blatant denial of a moral or psychological deficiency, which is perceived as a deficiency in another individual or group.


Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 2:10 pm

@ Simon –
“Homosexuality may not be a choice but it is voluntary…”
You might want to open a dictionary and see what the definition of voluntary is.

Also – The only crime in this story is that of the Bachmanns receiving federal monies to indoctrinate people.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 2:14 pm

As the recipient of more than $137,000 taxpayer money, the counseling center has a responsibility to taxpayers to employ credible and trusted services, not the equivalent of voodoo, phsychobabble and wishful thinking.

If you get a chance, please read in which I deal with some of these questions. Also late Baptist minister and Harvard theologian writes more on this issue in his book THE GOOD BOOK.

I think there is a bigger question than how to read the Bible about this issue though which is one of religious freedom and church freedom. Do you really want the government dictating for you which denomination is teaching the Bible correctly? In essence by supporting marriage discrimination being written into our state constitution that is what you are doing. I say that because various denominations have different stances on this. Quakers, the Presbyterian Church USA, the Episcopal Church USA, the United Church of Christ, the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, and my own affiliation of the Progressive Christian Alliance all support gay marriages based on their reading of the Bible. By and large Southern Baptist, Roman Catholic, and United Methodist denominations hold the opposing view. So this is a denominational issue — and by writing in, say, the Southern Baptist view into our constitution our state will be endorsing a particular denomination over another. Do you really support that?

It seems folks are willing to do this when it is something they agree with. Supposing you (like me) are Protestant. How would you feel if the government wrote into the constitution you had to support the Pope, or pray the rosary? Or if you are Catholic, what if it said you had to renounce your Catholic traditions?

A particular denominational perspective being written into our state constitution, so that it is binding upon people of other faiths and denominations, is what this bill is about.

The willingness of Christians to let this happen, reminds me of the disaster one German pastor described happening in NAZI Germany when preachers were offered political power for their churches if they would support NAZI politics. The pastor writes:

“First They Came for the Jews”

By Pastor Niemoller

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

You may not share with the denominational views of fellow Christians who are Episcopal, United Church of Christ, Presbyterian Church USA, Quaker, or Progressive. But do you really want the government deciding for us as Christians which view is right and writing it into our constitution in North Carolina?

Praying for you — that God’s Spirit would lift you up, the grace of God embrace and carry you, and Christ’s peace go before you.


Micah Royal

Diversity in Faith: A Christian Church for All People

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 2:50 pm

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 1:36 pm
The one breaking the law here was the undercover, they lied…likely put the visit on their medical insurance (fraud) and filmed on private property without authorization. Would any of you be okay with someone filming through your window of your house? this is no different BECAUSE it’s private property on a privately owned business.

Nothing the Bachmanns did was illegal, they tout themselves as a Christian counselor everyone knows that going in, so if you don’t want to be counseled in a manner consistent with scripture, leave!

Homosexuality may not be a choice but it is voluntary…

REALLY Simon…? So is heterosexuality Voluntary? I say we get Simon to Join “Pray the Hetero Away classes” after all its ONLY Voluntary….

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 3:10 pm

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 7:53 pm

The quote from Greg Quinlan in the second to last paragraph reads “The Bachmann incident demonstrates that as homosexuals gain more civil rights, heterosexuals are losing theirs… Because gays are a wealthy and politically powerful minority, they claim access to media attention, political power and corporate influence that middle America does not have.” Could I get a specific list of rights that I’ve lost?

Tom R
Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 8:30 pm

2 things –

1 – Wendy Leigh, can I be your Facebook friend as you are such a wealth of great references that I would like to have conveyed to my friends?

2 – I’m sure that since this was on MSNBC, the Fox News folks would say Mr Cooper can’t be a ‘real’ Republican because he actually has a realistic and more moderate viewpoint on the issue. It was nice to hear a Republican refute the “it’s a choice” line.

Comment posted July 14, 2011 @ 10:39 pm

As the father of a gay son, a scientist and an atheist, I am frightened by the religious extremism present in this country. Intolerance of any group of people is wrong. More people have been killed in the name of someones “God” than any other reason.

Bryan Fischer Promotes Ex-Gay Therapy | Secular News Daily
Pingback posted July 14, 2011 @ 11:02 pm

[...] Ever since the media started examining reports that the clinic operated by Michele Bachmann's husband Marcus practices "ex-gay therapy," the Religious Right has been in a tizzy and come rushing to their defense. [...]

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 8:51 am

Gee, what a surprise (he said sarcastically)–the usual suspects come crawling out of their basements to support Bachmann. Know this, regressives: you’re on the wrong side of history. You cannot win in the long run because equality and justice will eventually triumph over bigotry and exclusionary tactics. The United States WILL have full, legal equality in marriage for everyone, including gays and lesbians, and you cannot stop the march of progress forever.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 9:12 am

@ Tom R, of course. I just posted moments ago on JMG and you can find me.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 9:17 am

I see a lot of heterophobism going on in here…
1.) Couple questions for you guys, 1st do you believe people choose to be alcoholics?
2.) If you’re a heterosexual parent do you want schools teaching your child the homosexuality is the norm?
3.) are you comfortable with creating gender confusion for your children and the generations that follow?

To the person who said 10% are gay, that’s wrong! UCLA did a study showing that ONLY 3% are gay, granted that 3% are loud as heck. But 3% nonetehless.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 9:35 am

@ Simon, apples and oranges. We are not “an addiction” nor is our intimacy. Lets tear into your sex life first though…

Homosexuality is a norm for about 10% of the population in all demographics across the world since the beginning of time. Hard demographic to count.

LOL, there are more of us than people think and these figures are always humerous. 3% may be openly gay, maybe another 3 are openly lesbian and maybe 3-4% who are bi. There are many who dont qualify as such. I personnaly have never been asked to be in any study. You are not even touching the trans and intersex community.

Being LGBT is not “gender-confused” and does not create “gender-confusion”. A child will let you know if their brain tells them something other than their body reflects. Hopefully you are a quality parent to hear it.

I always love how homophobes love to act like they know more about us than we do. Note to Simon… you’re not listening, to people who know. That would NOT be FRC, AFA, FOF, etc…

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 9:37 am

“Being LGBT is not “gender-confused” and does not create “gender-confusion”. A child will let you know if their brain tells them something other than their body reflects. Hopefully you are a quality parent to hear it.”

The above is a reference to intersex individuals, not gay, lesbian or bi…

Ned Flaherty
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 9:45 am

Just because specific genes have not been tied to sexual orientation, Cullen Kehoe assumes — incorrectly — that sexual orientation has no biological basis.

He’s wrong.

Sexual orientation has multiple links to biology, as proven in studies about X chromosome Xq28, birth order, finger length, fingerprints, hair pattern, handedness, hearing, vocal pitch, eye blinks, verbal fluency, stress, and sweat. Some of these differences exist among Caucasians, but not African-Americans, which further strengthens the links between biology and sexual orientation. Just because there’s more to discover does not eliminate the basic fact that it’s already been proven that sexual orientation and biology are somehow linked even before birth.

Kehoe’s blind assumption that sexual orientation is a choice is an intentional falsehood taught by his religious sect. It flies in the face of scientific studies validated by professional peer reviews. Kehoe is just as superstitious as Christians who in 1633 declared Italian physicist Galileo Galilei a depraved heretic solely because he taught proven scientific facts instead of Christian myths.

People like Kehoe argue, “But my bigotry comes from my bible, so I’m innocent.” They’re wrong. Pointing to the biblical roots of bigotry doesn’t excuse anyone from being bigoted; it just reinforces the bigotry all the more.

Kehoe has high respect for ancient, religious sect writings, but no respect for biology, genetics, and other sciences, and he admits idolizing Michele Bachmann because she seems to resemble his own faith and culture. He’s exactly what she is: a cauldron of ethnocentrism, nationalism, fear, and ignorance — the very foundations of bigotry.

Kehoe insists on staying ignorant of science, and uses that ignorance to justify his bigotry, but still asks people to not call him the bigot that he’s already proven that he is.

If he wants to not be called a bigot, he has to stop being one.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 9:46 am

Heterophobia??? LOL. Sounds like something off of AFA radio, which sounds idiotic as usual.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 10:02 am


Let’s say we’re creating a clinic to convert you to Buddhism, so that we can “cure” you of your homophobia. We set clinics where to tout the benefits of Buddhism over Christianity, using techniques where it pointed out that humans were designed to be Buddhist, state that Buddhism is more “natural” than Christianity and other things like that. Also that we went on TV and pointed out our “love” for those poor “Christians” who have not seen the error of their ways. And we’re going to make this clinic eligible for insurance and coverage.

Would you be offended by that?

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 10:17 am


There are legltimate cases of transgenderism. However the “gender confusion” that that generally is talked about is usually related to gender roles in society. There are still those who think that only men can teach or run a church, for instance.

Alcoholism is somthing that people can have tendencies for. There are biological componants that make it tougher for some people to control their alcohol intake. So in a sense its both biological and psychological.

And there is nothing wrong with teaching being gay is normal, as it is perfectly normal.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 11:24 am


Let me take your questions on…

” I see a lot of heterophobism going on in here…” I am a middle aged woman married 20 plus years, to one man, never been with a woman, Have no desire’s to be with a woman why? Cause I’m Straight, I have always known I am and I am very happy with that.

1.) Couple questions for you guys, 1st do you believe people choose to be alcoholics? Being a woman who have had Alcoholics in the family they have biological tendencies that lead them to all addictions.

2.) If you’re a heterosexual parent do you want schools teaching your child the homosexuality is the norm? I am a heterosexual parent, of two grade school children. I know exactly what they teach, I know and have been involved in the anti bully programs, read the full curriculum and support it. It states that homosexuality exists, that gay family are families out there, that you can not bully anyone for these reasons. Accepting something does not support it. I know many people that still do not support inter racial couples, and inter faith couples. I know many people that do not allow their daughters to pick or choose dates for themselves and cover their bodies from head to toe. I know many people that have trouble with all these things. I know families that have rituals and religious practices where they have rings in their back yards and walk backwards through them a couple times of the year, I know people that pray to saints and people who chant daily, and people who carry pray mats with them everywhere they go. I know families that have had many divides in their families and this has brought in many different sets of parents that have to get involved with each other. I know many families that have only one parent, or grandparents in charge, or aunts or uncles. I know families where both parents are of different colors and back grounds and they have adopted children that look nothing like either of them. All of these are “normal” for the family in which they live. And all are accepted to me, I might support all their decisions all the time, but they are not decisions for me, for my family.

3.) are you comfortable with creating gender confusion for your children and the generations that follow? Since Being Gay has been around longer than Christianity, and it will be here for longer than I will ever be on the planet, that there have always been society that accepts and not only accepts but also supports gay couplings, Being Gay has no confusion of what is or what is not a Gender. If anything the thoughts and patterns that ONLY one way to live is the confusion. When one says that the man has to be the bread winner, or if the man has to have a certain sort of Job, or style, or color to wear, or sport to play, is when there is confusion. when one is not allowed to simply live out ones loves, passions and inert traits then that is when there is confusion. If a girl wants to wear pants all the time and not a skirt is that a gender confusion or is that cause pants are more comfortable to that woman? A man is more nurturing and the the wife is making more money so the dad is staying home is that a gender confusion? or not normal?

Simon, I have no issues with you not supporting Gays. I have no issues with chapels trying to pray the gay away. But to indoctrinate it into the public square, and to force it onto people, to call it medicine and take tax dollars for a medical therapy when all the regulated and accredited medical associations have stated that its not only not good medicine but dangerous, then Yes I have a problem.

So what do you say to your child and they come home and say that a gay family lives down the street, or that they were taught that they can not bully someone for being gay at school? exactly what I taught my children when they came home and asked about church and why a lot of their friends go to church and we don’t. I said for some families they have church, some have temples, some have homes, or groups, or societies that they go to, that the belong to and they share their thoughts with each other about God, and how they believe in God. Just like we share our thoughts about God in our home. For them they go to a place for us we don’t, there are differences in each family and all of its ok, even if we don’t agree with them.

I am proud to say my children associate with many different types of people of race, color, creed, orientation. all are not only accepted but supported by them.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 12:01 pm

Marie they were three simple questions and you fail to answer all of them, obfuscation is not answering. Are you a politician?

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 12:10 pm

I not only answered them I answered them in deep deep response. I have experience and knowledge you do not have.

You just didn’t like the answers is all.

and you don’t like the idea that there are conservative living folks that have no issues with being gay.

by the way, I have no gay people in my family, as of now. So I am not some bleeding heart over a child of my own.

Simon, you can’t understand that we can all live in one life.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 12:23 pm

The GAYS recognize their own. They recognize those who are “in the closet” and afraid to expose their true feelings. Closeted gays are afraid and hide, like the phony religious ideologues, behind loud, distracting, mean spirited rhetoric that hates and condemns. It is a survival tactic. but, the louder the protests, the greater the risk of exposure. Marcus Bachmann is portrayed by comedians and others as being GAY and in the closet. Michele is his enabler as would be acceptable, “she is subject to him” in her words.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 12:53 pm

Life is not yes or no answers. We libs grasp that the world as not being black and white, having nuance and depth.

Marie gave you a deeply thought out answer. Your snarky response tells me that you’re not intersted in a discussion or trying to understand a thing, but to score points by making smart ass comments.

So engage in the give and take or go find a more troll friendly website.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 3:50 pm

How come it is common with Christians to invoke Leviticus when it comes to a man lying with a man, for example, being an abomination to God, but they don’t follow other “laws” clearly delineated above and below that passage of the Bible? Christians eat pork, shrimp, lobster, wear clothing made of two or more fibers, sleep with their wives when on their periods, they do not perform ritual hand washing, nor do they sacrifice animals on altars any longer. So, Simon, Cullen, why the intense focus on one particular “law” in Levitcus when so many others are commonly disregarded. And if they are not disregarded by you, I am very curious as to how you go about sacrificing animals on a regular basis. As well, I am very curious why you and your fellow Christians are not protesting regularly outside your local Chili’s and Long John Silver’s and the like, since those restaurants serve unclean meat, shrimp, etc.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 3:56 pm

I cannot believe I live in a country where people are so small minded, still. Your religion doesn’t give you cover to scapegoat people and legislate against a group because of your deeply held religious beliefs. That’s why we have a Constitution, to keep people like you from legally putting our CIVIL RIGHTS in the garbage disposal. Mr. Bachmann’s “clinic” is nothing more than a cover for religous brainwashing at the taxpayers expense. He is causing irreparable harm to those who are coming into his offices according to every credible medical authority by using so called reparative therapy and bilking the State of Minnesota in the process.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 3:57 pm

1.) Couple questions for you guys, 1st do you believe people choose to be alcoholics? Being a woman who have had Alcoholics in the family they have biological tendencies that lead them to all addictions.

Where’s the answer?

Look people don’t choose to be an alcoholic any more than they do being gay, but it is voluntary just as being gay is…If you don’t take the drink you can fend off alcoholism, if you don’t take the dink you can fend off gaydom.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 10:08 pm

There is NO reason to”fend off gayism” any more then there is for you to fend off your straightism.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 10:46 pm

Being gay is not a disease, nor is living your authentic self honestly and proudly a vice.

Comment posted July 15, 2011 @ 10:57 pm

Nice try, troll.

Gays are diseased, damaged, or wrong. Remember the quote that all takes for good people to do bad is religion. You’re a great example of that.

frank burns
Comment posted July 16, 2011 @ 3:22 am

The Bachmanns are Christian fundamentalists — which by definition means that the TRUTH for them is precisely what they have chosen to believe either to feel better about their guilt, or because they were brought up that way in their church. So talking sense just flies right past them. The more logic you make, they will just say that FAITH is more important, and that God is mysterious, etc. etc. That they are lying constantly doesn’t phase them — inf fact, it actually generates pious feelings for them. They never figure it out, because they put so much stock in their church — full of people as whacky as they are, who say all the same nonsensical things.

frank burns
Comment posted July 16, 2011 @ 3:28 am

My question is that Mr. Bachmann doesn’t have a clue, and even admits it. He sounds about as knowledgeable as I would be, and I don’t know jack about psychology. And yet he accepts big bucks — either fro the “patient” form government subsidies for this BS? How does he sleep at night? Oh, I forgot, he is a Christian fundamentalist, constantly warring with guilt anyway. I put “patient” in quotes, because a better term would be “BS receiver”.

frank burns
Comment posted July 16, 2011 @ 6:47 am

So Bachmann is a partner of a clinic receiving boodles of federal funding for BS “Christian counseling”. I guess she ought to know where we can begin cutting the budget.

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 18, 2011 @ 9:43 am

The news here is that all of these fundamentalist-extremist CERTIFIED HATE GROUPS came rushing to circle the wagons around their demogogue. Here is an important article regarding this groups Army of God, of which Bachmann is involved with.

“But what makes the New Apostolic Reformation movement so potent is its growing fascination with infiltrating politics and government. The new prophets and apostles believe Christians—certain Christians—are destined to not just take “dominion” over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the “Seven Mountains” of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world. They believe they’re intended to lord over it all. As a first step, they’re leading an “army of God” to commandeer civilian government.”

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 18, 2011 @ 1:06 pm

The law school at ORU was a first effort at creating a “Christian” law school that would teach the “biblical” foundations of the law—essentially substituting Rushdoony’s totalizing worldview for mainstream legal theory. His views are evident not only in the ORU education Bachmann received, but in the perspectives of other Christian law schools forged on the ORU example, such as Liberty University Law School, where students are taught to follow “God’s law” rather than “man’s law,” and where Rushdoony’s texts are required reading. The rise of Christian schools—not just law schools, but elementary and secondary education, and homeschooling as well—has been, in Titus’ view, a “silent revolution” that has “basically escaped the scrutiny of most journalists.”

Comment posted July 18, 2011 @ 3:51 pm


Being Gay, is not a chemical bodily reaction to a drug. There is no “cure” its just who you are. Its part of your being.

You can say its a disease but do you have 20 years of medical degree’s and knowledge of cultural anthropology, and mental Psychology?

There is NOT ONE accredited medical association in the world that thinks its a disease or mental illness. NOT ONE.

Actually to think that only you have the answer in life, and that there is only one way to live and that millions, billions of people think differently than you do and they are wrong and you are right is actually a mental issue. Perhaps you should get that checked out.

History is on the side of Homosexuals and so is Science.

I have no issue that you can not Support a gay person, but that is your bigotry to live with, not mine. You must accept that they are here, and they are equal to you and me and every one else. Even if you don’t support it.

Comment posted July 18, 2011 @ 4:32 pm


Question to you,

Do you think that your straightism is something that can be changed? do you think I could force you to have sex with another guy and turn you gay? do you think I could pray you gay? if one can have the gay prayed away then it should be done the other way right?

If Gay is like being an alcoholic then anyone can become one. ANYONE. If a non addicted like personality was forced alcohol ten times a day every day, they would be an alcoholic. So therefore I could force you to becoming gay.

Life isn’t black and white, there are greys everywhere. Sexuality is a spectrum, and has always been that way. Some are far to the right of it and some are far to the left, and believe it or not some are right in the middle and even then, you can’t “choose” who you fall in love with and who you are soulfully connected to. Its a biological, mind connection, its actually very scientific. If you Believe that God made all people, then God made that spectrum and all the people on the spectrum, did he make people wrong?

Wendy Leigh
Comment posted July 20, 2011 @ 6:12 pm

@Marie, Simon is just bleating another peer-repudiated Paul Cameronism, who is the the godfather of all of the icky-scaryisms mindlessly bleated by all of The Family mafias certified Hate Groups quacks and their minions.

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