Bachmann’s clinic gets glittered over ‘ex-gay’ therapy charges

Excellent example of the Hemingway distinction between action and motion.

You’d think the so called christian right would figure this issue out every time a rainbow occurs. They continue to miss the obvious signal in the sky from on high.

Jeff Wilfahrt, Rosemount, MN

The basic problem with “treatments” to change homosexuality is that they don’t work (apart from doing a lot of harm, which may be their real intention). They have the same effect as if they were applied to heterosexuality. For a decade, I researched this “therapy”, both done in medical environments, such as “aversion therapy”, and the various religious regimes, for the Council on Homosexuality and Religion. A first indication of their failure is readily available in the tracts which many of the victims write. They are, all of them, still ‘struggling’ with their homosexuality. In other words, they are not “ex” anything. And, it doesn’t last–the paper tracts are more durable. In both kinds of “therapy”, the averagel shelf life seems to be about six months. This was all confirmed by interviews with those who had undergone these “therapies”. There are many, many more ex-ex-gays than there are those still pretending to have been changed, and these, of course, are vastly outnumbered by the many homosexuals happily leading homosexual lives and in homosexual relationships. Further evidence is available from the admissions by ‘therapists’ such as Charles Socariades and Master and Johnson, who were obliged to admit that they could refer other therapists and journalists to no examples of successful therapy. These “therapists’” claims of success turned out to be based on patients who had disappeared or had never existed. It is perhaps uncharitable to say of these “therapies” that they are frauds, but that will be the judgement of history.

Good for them, confronted with vile hatred, gays respond with humor. Thus they can ridicule degenerates like Bachmann, while maintaining moral superiority.

I like the non violent physical attack. It packs a good punch. It doesn’t harm anyone, but it says VOLUMES

your on the right track baby!

They should lose their license to practice when one of their therapeutic treatments have been denounced as abuse – and fined.

I certainly hope anyone involved in this act is prosecuted for trespassing and property damage. This kind of behavior is ridiculous and the socialist left wouldn’t tolerate any conservative group doing anything similar…… and they certainly wouldn’t praise it. I wouldn’t tolerate this kind of behavior in my business and I would demand prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. Typically people resort to such tactics when they can’t win the ideological battle. Aren’t we suppose to be tolerant and understanding? If this private business wants to promote something through legal means and they think that is something that needs to be done and people through free will go there then what is the problem? We need to be diverse and tolerate other ideas & opinions. God Bless America.

I get the reason for their protest. But isn’t this a kind of bullying? They show up in a large group and try and force themselves and views on the target. There has been so many stories in the media about young gay teens getting bullied. It does not help to turn around and become the bullying. I do not care for these tactics by anyone.

So entering a private business and becoming disorderly is the proper way to get your point across. The hatred from the left wing is ridiculous and outrageous. I really enjoy all your psychiatric experts on this blog who know everything about treatment. They also talk about how kind they are while degrading others and using vile comments about other people. Some people believe that homosexuality is a learned behavior and some don’t. People have a right to their own belief systems. I do have a questions for all of the liberals on this blog, why do you only protest Christians and Catholics? I have seen no evidence of protests at any mosque. I haven’t seen any Christians stoning to death gay people but I surely have seen it done in Muslum countries. HMM. Maybe it isn’t the gay issue it is just that liberals hate Christians who believe in the bible as it is written. May God have mercy on all our souls.

Even though I agree with their message, I don’t think “glittering” is an effective or appropriate means of communicating it. “Glittering” is basically preaching to the choir, and obviously has no impact on people like Inreality and Sarge57 (other than eliciting a typical victim response). I would rather see this energy put into pressuring the government to investigate and prosecute the Bachmanns for illegal use of Medicaid funds. That’s where the action is.

I have to say, I love the costumes!

This isn’t going to help you cause. These people are behaving like third graders. They should be arrested for trespassing.

This comment feed has brought up some interesting thoughts. At North Star Equality we believe an educated dialog is needed to ensure the Minnesota is a state that values all of its citizens. Check out our FB page and continue this conversation there.

I do have to say I disagree with the tactics. It should be the peaceful demonstration outside the building as the law requires.

They did attack non violently and caused damage at the point where it cost money to clean it up. Think how long glitter is going to be floating around the office.

It was how ever funny as hell and the costumes were right up there.

50$ fine now get out of here.

I do also think its funny the Bachmans are making money from government funds. It should be investigated as a fraudulent practice.

To Mr. Wilfahrt,
When I see the rainbow I think of God and his promises to us. That despite our sinful behavior he will never again destroy the world as He did with the great flood. The gay advocates highjacked this symbol. Also, I am sorry for what happened to your son. Help me understand how it has anything to do with the gay “marriage” issue.

Sarge57 wrote,

“Some people believe that homosexuality is a learned behavior and some don’t. People have a right to their own belief systems.”

Of course people have a right to their own beliefs systems, and no one here is questioning that right. But, you aren’t entitled to your own facts. You believing that homosexuality is a choice is no more valid than believing that heterosexuality is a choice.

“I do have a questions for all of the liberals on this blog, why do you only protest Christians and Catholics? I have seen no evidence of protests at any mosque. I haven’t seen any Christians stoning to death gay people but I surely have seen it done in Muslum[sic] countries. HMM. Maybe it isn’t the gay issue it is just that liberals hate Christians who believe in the bible as it is written.”

The reason why criticism of Muslims isn’t happening at near the level of criticism of Christian conservatism, is that Muslims don’t have anywhere near the social and political power of conservative Christianity. Also, if you think that no liberal is Christian–what can be said? You’re woefully uneducated about religious belief in America.

Betty Rubble,

You wrote,

“When I see the rainbow I think of God and his promises to us. That despite our sinful behavior he will never again destroy the world as He did with the great flood.”

That statement, those two simple sentences, are a magnifying glass on a huge cultural divide in this country. This divide is making it extraordinarily difficult to have reason and evidence based dialogue and decision making across a wide swath of issues. And it’s largely not the fault of those committed to a reason and evidence based worldview.

What I’m getting at is this. The belief that there was a worldwide flood a few thousand years ago lacks any evidence. In fact, the geological record shows NO evidence that a flood of that type ever occurred. Yes. The story of the flood is a myth. An ancient fairy tale if you will that was designed to answers questions about the world that couldn’t be answered at the time due to lack of scientific knowledge.

It’s possible to have a reasonable debate over the existence of a god(s) or the moral character of Jesus, or even his existence. But there is no debate about the flood. It never happened. Period.

What’s incredibly disconcerting about the belief in a flood is that the refutation of its occurrence is as simple as a geology textbook away. No reputable geology, archeology, physics or chemistry journal would ever take the flood fable seriously. And they shouldn’t. There’s no evidence for it happening.

What does this have to do with gay marriage? A lot actually.

When we have large numbers of people in this country believing things not on the basis of reason and evidence, or ever a minimum degree of rational self-criticism, but believing based on tradition, church authority, intuition, received opinion and conformity, intelligent decision-making becomes extremely difficult in a democracy.

In the words of a Supreme Court case,

“Where would we really find the principal danger to civil liberty in a republic? Not in the governors as governors, not in the governed as governed, but in the governed unequipped to function as governors. The chief enemies of republican freedom are mental sloth, conformity, bigotry, superstition, credulity, monopoly in the market of ideas, and utter, benighted ignorance.”
-Feldman v. United States, 322 U.S. 487, 501 (dissenting opinion)

Betty, given the grave harm to the vulnerable gay person, I personally believe that those who attempt “reparative therapy” on the mistaken belief of “sinful behavior” should be shot. Any questions?

While I think this stunt was childish I understand the motivation behind it and that is what is lacking in many of these posts by heterosexuals who want gays to go away.

Watch a program like Stonewall on PBS and you’ll begin to get a tiny bit of empathy towards your gay brothers and sisters. Try to imagine what it must be like to be constantly told that you are unworthy, an “abomination” (a word used frequently the religious right), and that you should never be able to form a loving relationship with someone because what you do is “evil”—-now can you understand why a few gay folks (the rest of them are busy working, paying taxes, doing boring stuff like us heteros) might rise up and throw some glitter?

Let go of the fear because IMO (gasp, a liberal Christian) where there is fear there is no love and love is the ultimate sign of God. You can’t catch homosexuality and gays aren’t recruiting. They just want to LIVE and enjoy all the freedoms us heteros have. Is that too much to ask?

The group was peaceful, non-violent and helps bring a spotlight to the abuse that occurs at the clinic. Not to mention the hypocrisy of tax-payer funds supporting the Bachmann’s and their extreme religious views by way of unlicensed therapy and her role as a public servant. Job well done! This clinic should have to operate under a license and be held accountable to the harm they have caused.

BettyRubble,

To help you understand…
Military personnel take an oath to defend the constitution. The constitution is where we define rights and from which we draw legal constructs. It guarantees equality under the law without distinction for sexuality, creed, race etc.

Marriage is a legal thing and therefore should be granted equal access to any two citizens so choosing to enter into that contractual state. Even the right to solemnize marriage of two citizens is a licensed construct derived from the state.

As long as the marriage issue remains in the legal domain I can accept the existence of DOMA. However, once an attempt is made to enshrine in the constitution one particular definition of marriage that precludes CitizenA and CitizenB from legal access due to a common sex I have a problem, especially since my son died defending that document which binds us all together.

It is the constitution and equal rights that are worth fighting for, dieing for and defending. These are the rights of your fellow citizens. This is purely a legal issue and should be worked out in the courts. The definition of marriage is something the entire society should be able to work out without a majority precluding the rights of a minority. This is precisely why we have a judiciary branch. That the legislative branch is attempting to thwart that premise is anti-American and anti-constitutional.

Jeff Wilfahrt, Rosemount, MN

@Jeff, I hope you can’t be told enough thank you for your son, and the service your family has given our country. your son was a True loyal, patriot.

to all the naysayers, i say: give the kids a smile for goodness sake! think about the troubled kids getting sent to these places – their families reject them in that they believe they need to be fixed! this is meant for them – a small act to give some kids hope: there are others like you who will embrace you and they have a sense of humor, too!